26 réponses à ce sujet

[mssux]

I've had a lot of friends (what I'd call experienced and less so) either playing with me and dying quickly or asking why their warrior (usually Legionnaire / Templar) sucks.  It turns out that a lot of these people have been using weapons with the 10% or 20% berserk skills without realising either what the skill did or reading the weapon attribute.  

 

So if you are one of these people wondering why your characters are getting 1 shotted by spirits and suchlike.  Do yourself a favour and check whether you are using an item (weapon or shield) with berserk on it.  If so, I'd highly suggest getting rid of that and you'll be surprised how you now live much longer 

 

 

 

This has been a public service announcement by me!

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Why those items exist,it is beyond me.If they would give like 100% more damage,maybe I would use them,but in current state,no thanks.

[J. Peterman]

But, but, 20% extra damage....

[phoenix fang55]

But, but, 20% extra damage....

But the enemy gets 200% more against you.....

[21T09]

But the enemy gets 200% more against you.....

Still! 20% free extra damage!

[J. Peterman]

Still! 20% free extra damage!

 

Exactly! I'm not passing that up for anybody.

[Altruismo]

That's actually one of my biggest gripes with itemisation in this game.

Melee classes get "berserk", the absolute worst example being the Wintersbreath shield - yeah awesome, a shield with + 20 guard, high armor, + con, ranged defense, and you take +100% damage when using it.. WHAT!?

 

Mages get the Staff of the Dynamo, +20% damage if you're not hit for 5 seconds - in my opinion the best staff in the game by about... 20% (unless you're an AW).

 

Seems to me like those buffs are back to front....

[orskar]

yeah I gotten that Wintersbreath shield and quickly put it on due to the rating without noticing the berserk at the bottom and ran a legionnaire through about 10 insufferable level ups in threatening. noticed it when I started checking all my gear since I had thought I had forgotten to change to the high tier armours after crafting them.

 

 

I still feel like there is something I am missing with Berserk, since I can't believe such a stupid "bonus" would be put in the game.

[Altruismo]

I still feel like there is something I am missing with Berserk, since I can't believe such a stupid "bonus" would be put in the game.

 

Theoretically, a dispel nuking Templar with Wintersbreath is ideal if someone else holds ALL the agro all the time.

Call of the Dark and Seige's End outshine Sulevin blade by a lot in the same way.

But it's just not practical - one archer and you're down.

The numbers speak for themselves - the penalty simply outweighs the bonus by too much.

[mssux]

Theoretically, a dispel nuking Templar with Wintersbreath is ideal if someone else holds ALL the agro all the time.

Call of the Dark and Seige's End outshine Sulevin blade by a lot in the same way.

But it's just not practical - one archer and you're down.

The numbers speak for themselves - the penalty simply outweighs the bonus by too much.

 

I'd rather use a weapon with 5% extra damage for each enemy within 8 metres even in that scenario.  I really see no reason why in it's current implementation anyone would consider using an item with that on (unless by mistake).  Happy for someone to give me a valid reason why I'm wrong though.

[Beerfish]

I was one of 'those' people. 

 

It reminds me of one dungeon master friend we had when playing DnD years ago.  Almost all of his magic item creations had wonderful useful attributes except that almost without exception he would add some horrible debilitating feature as well.  It got to the point that after an adventure the team would just go back to the local town and sell every single thing he had given us during the adventure, much to his disappointment.

[Aegore]

20% dmg is an excellent buff especially when playing such a tanky class, 200% more damage to you is not a lot when you're practically invincible to all dmg even on Perilous. You just gotta know how to play your class and these weapons can be very effective. Also taking more damage will also help you build your guard faster.

[Beerfish]

20% dmg is an excellent buff especially when playing such a tanky class, 200% more damage to you is not a lot when you're practically invincible to all dmg even on Perilous. You just gotta know how to play your class and these weapons can be very effective. Also taking more damage will also help you build your guard faster.

This is probably all true but the 200% damage means that if you make one mistake you are on your ass for sure.  It also fits in well with the bane of most enemies the archers who have that bug in which they can essentially one shot you.

[mssux]

20% dmg is an excellent buff especially when playing such a tanky class, 200% more damage to you is not a lot when you're practically invincible to all dmg even on Perilous. You just gotta know how to play your class and these weapons can be very effective. Also taking more damage will also help you build your guard faster.

 

I assume you are talking about the Legionnaire here and failing to consider the Reaver, Katari and Templar.  These classes have nowhere near as much survivability as the legionnaire and even then I would disagree that it's practically invincible.   Especially when taking 2x, 3x or even 4x damage if you used the shield and one-handed weapon combo.  I'm also assuming that you are talking about a high level character and not characters that may be low or low to mid level, these again are far from invincible for the majority of players.  Unless of course they are playing on a difficulty which is easy for them.

 

I stand by what I said and that I really see no use in this perk on a weapon or shield.  Give me a weapon / shielf with 5% att for each enemy within 8 metres any day of the week, practically all the benefits of the items with berserk (sometimes more) on them and none of the penalty.

[Altruismo]

20% dmg is an excellent buff especially when playing such a tanky class, 200% more damage to you is not a lot when you're practically invincible to all dmg even on Perilous. You just gotta know how to play your class and these weapons can be very effective. Also taking more damage will also help you build your guard faster.

 

"Play your class right".

Build guard and equip items so you take 300% damage in Perilous.

[Aegore]

I assume you are talking about the Legionnaire here and failing to consider the Reaver, Katari and Templar.  These classes have nowhere near as much survivability as the legionnaire and even then I would disagree that it's practically invincible.   Especially when taking 2x, 3x or even 4x damage if you used the shield and one-handed weapon combo.  I'm also assuming that you are talking about a high level character and not characters that may be low or low to mid level, these again are far from invincible for the majority of players.  Unless of course they are playing on a difficulty which is easy for them.

 

I stand by what I said and that I really see no use in this perk on a weapon or shield.  Give me a weapon / shielf with 5% att for each enemy within 8 metres any day of the week, practically all the benefits of the items with berserk (sometimes more) on them and none of the penalty.

 

Yes I use a lvl 20 legionaire and the 20% damage boost is extremely good. 200% or 2x dmg with unlimited guard and invincibility is exceptional when there is no downside. Also a cooldown reduction amulet is amazing on legionaire.

 

Payback Strike

War Cry (guard generator & aoe aggro)

Walking Fortress (guard generator and invincibility)

Counterstrike (guard generator)

 

Use War Cry for aggro then Walking Fortress which will make you invincible and put you at full guard. Then use the Payback Strike once WF is over to knock down everyone around you and give your guard some extra uptime. Once your guard drops after PS use your Countrestrike to put your guard back at full. All cooldowns should be close to reset by now so rinse and repeat this process while tanking and you will not die, even with the extra damage you're taking. I barely even notice I'm taking a bit more damage than normal because of how tanky the class is.

 

I haven't played much Templar but I'm sure you can make an effective tanky build using this type of item as well.

[Aegore]

"Play your class right".

Build guard and equip items so you take 300% damage in Perilous.

 

Its not 300% its 200% for the item I use. 2x damage compared to the normal 1x or aka 100%.

[Aegore]

.

[Altruismo]

Its not 300% its 200% for the item I use. 2x damage compared to the normal 1x or aka 100%.

 

+200% is PLUS 200%, in addition to the 100% you're already taking. You take 300% normal damage.

 

When making a "tank" build, whose main purpose is to get agro and absorb damage, equipping an item that literally triples the damage you take when you get hit in exchange for a 20% increase to your basic attack and payback strike is pretty much the diametric opposite of "knowing your class".

[Aegore]

+200% is PLUS 200%, in addition to the 100% you're already taking. You take 300% normal damage.

 

When making a "tank" build, whose main purpose is to get agro and absorb damage, equipping an item that literally triples the damage you take when you get hit in exchange for a 20% increase to your basic attack and payback strike is pretty much the diametric opposite of "knowing your class".

 

No its not plus. Here is the affixes applied:

 

 

Berserk: 20% Damage Bonus, 200% Damage from all Sources

 

It's not +200% it's you take 200% damage from all sources instead of the normal 100% because the ability overrides your normal damage taken. So you're taking twice (x2) the amount of damage you normally take. Either way the amount of damage you take doesn't matter when you absorb everything.

 

Also the legionnaire build I have above is the most effective tank build in the game. - Not only can you grab aggro of all enemies like a Tank should, you can also absorb all damage and even provide minimal crowd control by knocking down and stunning enemies. I don't think you fully understand my build but Payback Strike is an excellent skill that allows you to knock down and stun all enemies around you. Also you do more damage with payback strike based on how much damage you take as well as the damage bonus you're getting from berserk.

[Altruismo]

No its not plus. Here is the affixes applied:

 

 

Berserk: 20% Damage Bonus, 200% Damage from all Sources

 

It's not +200% it's you take 200% damage from all sources instead of the normal 100% because the ability overrides your normal damage taken. So you're taking twice (x2) the amount of damage you normally take. Either way the amount of damage you take doesn't matter when you absorb everything.

 

Also the legionnaire build I have above is the most effective tank build in the game. - Not only can you grab aggro of all enemies like a Tank should, you can also absorb all damage and even provide minimal crowd control by knocking down and stunning enemies. I don't think you fully understand my build but Payback Strike is an excellent skill that allows you to knock down and stun all enemies around you. Also you do more damage with payback strike based on how much damage you take as well as the damage bonus you're getting from berserk.

 

I recommend you read the tooltip on your item in game, not just reading it off a spreadsheet. It says +, it is +.

You can test this in-game too, I have; you clearly have not.

Payback strike also does not take into account how much damage you take, just whether or not you've been damaged in the last 5 seconds.

Get hit for 1 damage, your payback strike has an extra 200% damage, get hit for 200 damage, your payback strike has the same +200%

[phoenix fang55]

Listen, I am not going on my rant again about people and their meta-builds. I'll just leave it by saying that you could not be more wrong, simply for teh reason that you clearly are oblivious to the fact that there is more than a few ways to tank (also known as playing the Defender role). Your aggro tank build may be good as an aggro tank, but it would be horrible as a control tank or a sapper tank. 

Mort, can I call you Mort, you are what all forum posters should be like, mostly polite, never bash on builds, makes helpful suggestions.

 

A good build is what you can make work, as long as you can play well/have fun with it, then its a good build.

 

Some people would call my katari build bad, or stupid, cause I go out of my way to get warhorn, but I have a blast playing with that. So you just keep going on and being awesome!

[Saboteur-6]

In no world would I equip a +200% damage taken item for a measly +20% damage. The Katari and Reaver ALREADY have plenty of access to burst DPS and struggle with survivability. The Templar has plenty of burst DPS in her offensive role so she doesn't need it either (and if you're running a more defenseive Templar then you're not prioritizing personal damage anyway so there's better shield options.) So the only class that it might make a little bit of sense on is the Legionnaire (since he has such great facetanking) but I'd rather equip a shield that grants +5% for each nearby enemy because you only need 4 enemies to get the exact same damage buff plus NONE of the drawbacks.

 

If it was a +50% damage dealt for +200% damage taken that might be a different story.