93 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

I'm not particularly keen on the notion of future protagonists being descendents either since that railroads sheps into wanting to and being able to have kids with their lover.

Easily fixed since we already have a clone. Using Shepard's DNA and combining it with other people to produce Superior Soldiers would also allow you to play an "Alien" even if it's only cosmetic.

 

Think about it, in character creation (no matter your Shepard's Gender) you say the descendant is a fusion of Human and Asari and thus can include Asari head tentacles or skin tone.

[wright1978]

Easily fixed since we already have a clone. Using Shepard's DNA and combining it with other people to produce Superior Soldiers would also allow you to play an "Alien" even if it's only cosmetic.

 

Think about it, in character creation (no matter your Shepard's Gender) you say the descendant is a fusion of Human and Asari and thus can include Asari head tentacles or skin tone.

 

Without any real connection to the Character i don't see the point in using a descendent over a brand new protagonist.

The fusion notion you mention sounds more in keeping with synthesis than other endings. I'd prefer races maintain their own identity.

[Xn xN7x]

wow yall have some pretty kewl idea's and then some intense lol

o_O

[CylonHybrid]

The Reapers only harvest space-faring civilizations.

 

 

No the reapers harvest species with sufficient tech to create sentient AI whether they are space faring or not. And I already mentioned this possibility in my opening post 

[CylonHybrid]

Perhaps they were in the middle of harvesting those species when they're blindsided by a giant red wave of reaper death? Then years later while we're mining reaper archives from the tech they left behind we discover this was just the western front while in another area of the milkyway the war of the pacific was raging on. Council subsequently sends out a first contact team, then for the sake of convenience later in the game or even at the end we discover the two areas are linked via dormant mass relays.

 

Hello BSW, I've been going through ME withdraw lately and intend for this community to temporarily sate that craving. A pleasure to make your acquaintance. 

If this were true, then the reapers would have had to activate previously dormant mass relays that connected these two networks to move their forces from one network to another in different parts of the galaxy. But if this were true, why didn't ships from these alternative race in the other network escape through these relays into out network of the galaxy during the war. And if the reapers inactivated these mass relays again connecting the networks, the signal from the crucible wouldn't have destroyed the reapers in this part of the galaxy because the signal requires travel along active relays to all parts of the galaxy.

[Mcfly616]

No the reapers harvest species with sufficient tech to create sentient AI whether they are space faring or not. And I already mentioned this possibility in my opening post 

 Wrong. They harvest spacefaring species due to their potential capability to make AI. Not the other way around. Hence why the Raloi left the Citadel, went back to their homeworld and destroyed their satellites and went back to a pre-spaceflight state....to avoid the harvest.

 

It does matter if they're spacefaring. The Reapers entire harvest relies on the mass relay network and the Citadel as an elaborate trap for civilizations of advanced technology.

[CylonHybrid]

 Wrong. They harvest spacefaring species due to their potential capability to make AI. Not the other way around. Hence why the Raloi left the Citadel, went back to their homeworld and destroyed their satellites and went back to a pre-spaceflight state....to avoid the harvest.

 

It does matter if they're spacefaring. The Reapers entire harvest relies on the mass relay network and the Citadel as an elaborate trap for civilizations of advanced technology.

I think the points are this

 

1: The primary goal of the reapers is to prevent artifical intelligence from destroying sentient biological life. To that end, the will destroy any civilisation capable of creating sentient AI. If the civilisation is capable of space flight or not is irrelevant. But usually the case is that when a civilisation reaches the level of technology to create sentient AI, they have also achieved the technology for space flight and discovered the mass relay network. But the fact that the species has space flight or not is not the primary factor the reapers would use to identify a species for destruction.

 

2. It does not matter if the species is space faring because:

 

1. If they are space faring then the mass relay network will direct their civilisation along the course the reapers want them to follow. They will use the network for intragalactic travel and use the citidel as the centre of galactic government....and so a reaper trap.

 

2. If the species is not spacefaring then the species and sentient AI is confined to the planet on which they were created. But the reapers would not leave them to survive for another 50,000 years because by that time, they may discover space flight and sentient AI may expand across the galaxy, advancing to a level even beyond the reapers.

 

The last point I want to make 3. Is the Raloi. They only destroyed their satellite network and abandoned the citadel in the hopes of fooling the reapers into thinking they were not advanced. We will never know if they succeeded or would that plan even work.

[Xn xN7x]

Please keep post to the topic here guy's.

 

Thanks

[Mcfly616]

Snip 

 Yes, the purpose of the Reapers is to stop the death of all life in existence by harvesting advanced civilizations capable of creating AI. That's the "why" of what they do. Not "how" they decide which ones to eliminate.

 

And the determining factor for that is if that civilization has reached the mass relay network. That is the measuring stick. It absolutely does matter if they're spacefaring. The level of advancement correlates directly with the discovery of the relays. If a civilization were to never leave their homeworld (regardless of their tech advancement), they would never get snuffed out by the Reapers because they have not tripped the metaphorical wire to make the Reapers aware of their existence.

 

 

The Reapers were inspired and based directly off of the Inhibitors from the Revelation Space novels. Their purpose is almost exactly the same. Their determining factor on which civilizations are marked for extinction, is literally the same.

 

Why do the Reapers harvest? To prevent advanced civs from developing sentient AI. How do they determine which civs are capable enough to create sentient AI? Any of those that have discovered the network and have advanced along the paths made possible by it.

[CylonHybrid]

 Yes, the purpose of the Reapers is to stop the death of all life in existence by harvesting advanced civilizations capable of creating AI. That's the "why" of what they do. Not "how" they decide which ones to eliminate.

 

And the determining factor for that is if that civilization has reached the mass relay network. That is the measuring stick. It absolutely does matter if they're spacefaring. The level of advancement correlates directly with the discovery of the relays. If a civilization were to never leave their homeworld (regardless of their tech advancement), they would never get snuffed out by the Reapers because they have not tripped the metaphorical wire to make the Reapers aware of their existence.

 

 

The Reapers were inspired and based directly off of the Inhibitors from the Revelation Space novels. Their purpose is almost exactly the same. Their determining factor on which civilizations are marked for extinction, is literally the same.

 

Why do the Reapers harvest? To prevent advanced civs from developing sentient AI. How do they determine which civs are capable enough to create sentient AI? Any of those that have discovered the network and have advanced along the paths made possible by it.

 

 

Yes but if it were the case that a civilisation would not be targeted for destruction just because they didn't use a mass relay, it would be a fatal flaw to the reaper cycle. If an advanced civilisation were to discover the relay network after the reapers left, they would be free to advance beyond the reapers so that when the reapers returned, they would be destroyed.

The leviathan never used the mass relay network but if the reapers ever found out about them, they would target leviathan for destruction. After all, the mass relay network was created by the ''catalyst'' AI after it targeted the leviathan for destruction as a means of efficiently speeding up cycles as was explained in the DLC 'leviathan'. The entire galaxy became one giant experiment. The mass relays simply guided galactic species along a technological route the reapers wanted them to follow. They did not trigger a return of the reapers like in the revelation novels when a beacon triggered AI to an advanced civilised race. That is the reason why Sovereign was left behind, to assess the galaxy and to trigger the citadel mass relay when required.  

 

If this is the case, I don't know from where the new races will come from in mass effect 4.

[Wayning_Star]

if enough time has elapsed then the whole ME universe could be totally different with only those that we (as former cheaty shepards with cosmic insights) can identify with. I think this is exemplified with the ending skit about the kid and the old man telling the story of "the shepard" as only lore in that time period. That little kid didn't even know if it were possible to go to other worlds, like it was some sort of future thing. In ME the narration moves faster than light, well too fast for us to follow easily? eh?

[Mcfly616]

Yes but if it were the case that a civilisation would not be targeted for destruction just because they didn't use a mass relay, it would be a fatal flaw to the reaper cycle. If an advanced civilisation were to discover the relay network after the reapers left, they would be free to advance beyond the reapers so that when the reapers returned, they would be destroyed.

The leviathan never used the mass relay network but if the reapers ever found out about them, they would target leviathan for destruction. After all, the mass relay network was created by the ''catalyst'' AI after it targeted the leviathan for destruction as a means of efficiently speeding up cycles as was explained in the DLC 'leviathan'. The entire galaxy became one giant experiment. The mass relays simply guided galactic species along a technological route the reapers wanted them to follow. They did not trigger a return of the reapers like in the revelation novels when a beacon triggered AI to an advanced civilised race. That is the reason why Sovereign was left behind, to assess the galaxy and to trigger the citadel mass relay when required.  

 

If this is the case, I don't know from where the new races will come from in mass effect 4.

  it's already been established that the Reapers are fallible. And it certainly is not a "fatal flaw". They don't care about species that aren't even competent enough to leave their planet. The Reapers don't have the numbers to keep track of the entire galaxy. They don't have tabs on 99% of the galaxy. The Citadel and the Relays are how they observe us. From the moment a civ begins using the network, the Reapers hold sway from that point on. It doesn't matter when a civ discovers it, they don't advance past the Reapers. They're going down a technological path designed by the Reapers. You should stop listing things from the game. I've played through it more times than I can count. Not to mention it's not supporting your argument.

 

And I never said that use of a Relay triggers the return of the Reapers. I said it's the benchmark which signifies the technological competence to create sentient AI (the whole reason that the Reapers 'reap'). You're comparing the Leviathan to just any civilization that happens to be confined to its homeworld. That is a poor example and simply wrong. The Leviathan were targeted for extermination at the beginning of the cycles. Obviously if the Reapers became aware of their survival and their location, they would try to finish the job once and for all. On the other hand, the Reapers wouldn't go out of their way to snuff out some lowly civilization that hasn't even come up with the means to leave their own solar system.

 

You seem to be confusing 'what' they do with 'why' they do it. 

[Andrew Lucas]

Nerf Vanguards on multiplayer...

[CylonHybrid]

 @ McFly Its never been stated in the game that the citadel and the mass relays are how the reapers ''observe'' anyone. They're just a technology that races discover and learn from. They are also a way the reapers trap races in regions of the galaxy when they decide to invade again since races have no other means of escaping or banding together if the reapers systematically inactive mass relays as what happened with the protheans. That is why they require a messenger aka Sovereign to activate the mass relay because they don't use the mass relays to observe.  Your argument is speculative because there is no evidence in the game to support it. Also as Soversign said, they have enough reapers to darken the skies of every world in the galaxy.

 

And mass relays are not in every system in the galaxy either, so you could have an intersteller race that hasn't discovered the mass relay network because the nearest mass relay is in a system far away. I don't see any reason why the reapers wouldn't reap these races? They will reap anyone with the potential to create a sentient AI and that's it, that is their purpose. The mass relay network just speeds this process up for most races. But as happened before the first cycle, civilisations made sentient AI before the reapers which led to the creation of the reapers. Reaper tech is not required to make sentient AI but its just that its so far advanced of other races, they use it as a blueprint for their civilisations scientific development. Not reaping a civilisation because it didn't discover a mass relay doesn't make sense in this case. They no doubt keep tabs on all races and their technology in the galaxy. So they know what to expect in the next cycle, that is speculative but it makes sense.

[Mcfly616]

 @ McFly Its never been stated in the game that the citadel and the mass relays are how the reapers ''observe'' anyone. They're just a technology that races discover and learn from. They are also a way the reapers trap races in regions of the galaxy when they decide to invade again since races have no other means of escaping or banding together if the reapers systematically inactive mass relays as what happened with the protheans. That is why they require a messenger aka Sovereign to activate the mass relay because they don't use the mass relays to observe.  Your argument is speculative because there is no evidence in the game to support it. Also as Soversign said, they have enough reapers to darken the skies of every world in the galaxy.

 

 You should probably go back and play the trilogy again. Things went waaaay over your head, obviously. They observe us through the network. In-game information, no speculation required.

 

 

The Reapers don't require a messenger of any sort. Sovereign was around to manually open the Citadel relay due to the Prothean sabotage. And Sovereign is simply being arrogant (like every other discussion between a Reaper and a mortal organic) when it talks of Reaper numbers blotting out the sky. They might darken the sky of a single planet (maybe). There's nowhere even remotely close to enough to account for the entire galaxy.

 

 

Learn something by going back and playing the trilogy, and then come back and we can discuss. As of right now it's not going anywhere due to your ill-informed perspective.

[Memnon]

Maybe the next Mass Effect should concentrate on killing off the rest of the Leviathans. Those idiots are the reason we're in this mess to begin with, and they should be removed with extreme prejudice. Anyone who has an "oops" to the scale that they did shouldn't be allowed to be around to repeat it ...

[CylonHybrid]

@ McFly

 

Please don't pretend that you know more about mass effect than I. Please give me a reference/ some proof to where in the game it mentions that the reapers were using the mass relays as a direct way to observe organic beings? The Leviathan observe the galaxy through their spheres maybe you confused them with the reapers?

 

And your second statement is wrong, sovereign was around to assess the state of the galaxy and to transmit a signal to the citadel to open the mass relay for the reapers in dark space when the time came. The reapers didn't know anything about the protheon sabotage until the events of mass effect 1, but Sovereign was lying in wait for 50,000 years for the reason of opening the citadel mass relay. The evidence can be found in game and in the mass effect wiki

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Soversign

 

 

Please don't state speculation and incorrect statements and then infer that I disn't follow the game thanks.

[Mcfly616]

@ McFly

 

Please don't pretend that you know more about mass effect than I. Please give me a reference/ some proof to where in the game it mentions that the reapers were using the mass relays as a direct way to observe organic beings? The Leviathan observe the galaxy through their spheres maybe you confused them with the reapers?

 

And your second statement is wrong, sovereign was around to assess the state of the galaxy and to transmit a signal to the citadel to open the mass relay for the reapers in dark space when the time came. The reapers didn't know anything about the protheon sabotage until the events of mass effect 1, but Sovereign was lying in wait for 50,000 years for the reason of opening the citadel mass relay. The evidence can be found in game and in the mass effect wiki

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Soversign

 

 

Please don't state speculation and incorrect statements and then infer that I disn't follow the game thanks.

 Clearly you didn't follow the game. Don't twist my words. This entire discussion started with you denying the fact that they harvest spacefaring species that use the relay network and the Citadel. It's quite apparent that you don't know much about the MEU. You avoid the topic at hand, cherry picking my words in order to change the subject. When did I say Sovereign wasn't there to open the Relay? Oh right, never. 

 

 

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

 

"The Protheans developed a plan to forestall the impending Reaper attack for future generations of sapient, spacefaring species. "

 

 

Read up bud. You need it.

[CylonHybrid]

What is wrong with your comprehension skills? Not to be insulting but you completely missed the point of all my posts. I'll have to break it down,

 

you said ' The entire discussion started with you denying the fact that they harvest spacefaring species that use the mass relays and citadel'.

 

I never said that. What I said was they not only harvest these races that use mass relays and the citadel but also races which havedeveloped AI but not found the mass relay network yet for whatever reason. This is because their primary goal is to wipe out sentient AI and species that can create it. These sentient spacefaring races are destroyed, and that's true for 99% of cases but not all species may have found out about the mass relay network, That's all I'm saying. They could still be sapient and spacefaring anyway. Or perhaps they discovered a mass relay but it was inactive. It has been established that there were many inactive relays.

That's completely different from what you thought I said. There is no evidence in the game for this but I was putting it forward as an idea and then saying if that were the case, how could there be other new races in the game that escaped the reapers in ME4?

 

You also stated random things like the reapers use the mass relays to observe. This is not true. You have yet to provide evidence.

And even from the last post you said '' The reapers don't require a messenger of any sort, Sovereign was around to open the mass relay sue to prothean sabotage. ''

The I said that they do need a messenger regardless of protheon sabotage and gave you a wikia source proving my point. That not cherry picking, that's a counter argument, maybe you should read up on the definition of cherry picking.

You ignore this point  and state ' When did I say Sovereign wasn't there to open the mass relay, oh right never'. That wasn't the point of what we were both taking about, the point was did the reapers need a messenger in each cycle and they do. And then you state I twist your words lol.

Clearly  you're one of these people that knows they're wrong in the argument but will change the meaning completely of what the other person said so it appears that you're correct.  You are a mumpsimus apparently. No doubt you'll completely change the meaning of what I said in this well defined post to ''prove'' you're correct, then state I need to play the game more...lol. Please post again to prove my point to everyone else on the forum.

 

Dude you need to play mass effect more, I think you missed what was going on in the game. I all your statements you have never provided a shred of evidence to back up anything you say. I can only rationally discuss things with people who support their arguments with evidence like wikia or in game dialogue or something. That would be reasonable.