93 réponses à ce sujet

[Xn xN7x]

Hey guy's! Just a little mind boggle here. So I got a question for you?

Do you think the timeline of Mass Effect should take place after shepard's story?

Wouldn't you like to see what civilization is like 50yr's later?

What is the universe like after all of shepard's achievement's?

 

 

-The Future-

 

I think the new story should take place 100yr's after shepard's story, and the galaxy set as it was 

after the reaper conflict, thus allowing time to pass by and life as we know it to replenish and rebuild

and cover its losses. Simple because this open's a whole new idea of storyline for any future mass effect game.

 

Could you fathom? Playing as the great decendant of the legendary hero of the galaxy? - I Could!

Could you think about all the possibility's of what the galaxy is like after this timespan?

What did the krogan do after the reapers? What did the salerian's do after the reapers?

What did the Asari do after the reapers? and so on with all the specie's?

What's life like in this new universe of piece and prosper?

 

Did they travel to distant galaxy's and found new specie's of life? - Could be in next game?

Did they all become cybernetically advanced? I's there a massive statue of shepard in the presidium?

They imagination is never ending. What is the alliance doing now? Do we ever get to see our old friends

have kids? Did there kids become the next chapter in mass effect? What happen to the normandy?

Did it get decomed? (I doubt it) Who is the leader of the alliance now? What secret's did the illusive man have in store as a back up plan during the reapers we havent found out about? Was there a person in charge of cerberus above him? Who was the one calling all the shots? Did the baterians grow there population back after the mass effect field exploded wiping there whole star system out? There's a million possibility's where the story can go.

But the one that make's the most sense is to start years after shepard. This will allow closer and allow

Bioware to move away from shepard and start a new story of life after the great hero of the galaxy.

 

The ultimate question still remains mass effect fans!! -Edited-

What dark secret out there is more deadlier then the reapers, that the leviathan didn't tell us about?

You tell me. Tell Bioware what you really think is happening here. My mind is blown!

 

Now this is intense thinking!

 

-Edit-

 

Let's Get Creative here people! Wouldn't you like to see the Mass Effect Title Go Forward.

 

With longer side mission's. More Inventory control with yourself, your crew, and your ship.

There's alot to look at here. Bioware could get deep with the Mass Effect title.

I am talking about deep creative story, missions, customizing, inventory, loot, play out's.

We are on a whole new scale of what is possible. We could be looking at Customizing like

never seen in any mass effect game. Imagine being able to color your cloth's, your ship, to how

you see fit, what make's you different from the other's. We are talking about customizing your outfit's,

your teammate's outfit's, the color of there cloths, who you can bring aboard your ship, who you can hire,

to fight along side you, more team mate side mission's allowing you to collect loot or art for your own apartment,

ship, captains cabin, let's get real here, How about being able to tell your pilot while your in a mission to come help,

being able to tell them where to target a specific set of enemies if your getting over run during a mission, or fighting a boss, man I tell ya the ability is limitless here. Bioware could really throw down with this, knocking any game off it's feet.

The ability to do more, push harder, fight more epic battle's. Man my mind is on fire! How about your's?

 

N7 -  Represent

[Ithurael]

The ultimate question still remains mass effect fans!!\

Who was really controlling the reapers? Is there some super over advanced civilization of

machine's/alien/cybernetic specie's who where controlling them in dark space that we can't even

fathom them? You tell me. Tell Bioware what you really think is happening here. My mind is blown!

 

Now this is intense thinking!

 

It was the Catalyst....it was the Catalyst on the citadel that controlled the Reapers the entire time from ME1 onward and before.

 

The catalyst is the citadel and the collective consciousness of all reapers. In addition to controlling the reapers, it being the citadel (or the citadel being part of it) the keepers respond to it as well.

 

The Catalyst was built by the Leviathans (see Leviathan DLC)

[MrFob]

Well, I see two problems with that approach:

1. They would have to take into account the different endings. Was it high EMS destroy? Low EMS destroy? Synthesis? Control? These should be so radically different that BW would have to make basically at least 3 different games or many players would cry foul (and they wouldn't be wrong to do so either). Mind you, while I personally would not necessarily have a problem with BW canonizing one ending, I do think that in this case, the story of the next game should not focus on the repercussions of the trilogy but rather on it's own story.

 

2. After Leviathan, we know exactly what happened with the reapers, the catalyst and how they came to be, what their purpose was and what the entire affair was all about (as stupid as the explanation was, we do know). If BioWare pulls yet another Matryoshka doll out of their a$$ hat, I am going to fall over. I am not sure yet if it's gonna be from laughing or crying but I am going to fall over.

[GalacticWolf5]

In addition to controlling the reapers, it being the citadel (or the citadel being part of it) the keepers respond to it as well.

The Keepers don't respond to the Reapers since the last Cycle. That's why they didn't activate the Citadel relay back in ME1 . The Protheans had figured out a way to stop the connection between the Keepers and the Reapers. This is why Sovereign tried opening it with Saren's help.

[Ithurael]

The Keepers don't respond to the Reapers since the last Cycle. That's why they didn't activate the Citadel relay back in ME1 . The Protheans had figured out a way to stop the connection between the Keepers and the Reapers. This is why Sovereign tried opening it with Saren's help.

Actually you are half right

 

The keepers don't respond to the REAPERS post sabotage

 

Post sabotage the keepers only respond to...the citadel...and the citadel is part of the catalyst...which controls the reapers.

 

Vigil confirms this via the dialog.

EDIT: here we go:https://www.youtube....utu.be&t=14m26s

 

"But the keepers are no longer directly controlled by Sovereign or its ilk. They evolved so that they only respond to the signals emitted by the Citadel itself"

 

 

The original flow was:

Sovy sends signal to keepers at citadel

 

Keepers receive signal

 

Keepers open citadel mass relay

 

Harvest

 

The new flow post sabotage is:

 

Sovvy sends signal

 

Keepers don't respond

 

 

However, as confirmed by the dialog, the keepers still react and listen to the citadel. Which is the catalyst.

[SimonTheFrog]

Btw.... how did the reapers go through the mass relay in the citadel in all those cycles before? I mean, they are massive, massive ships and the relay is tiny and stands in a pond.

This is really awkward... ah well.

[MrFob]

The citadel mass relay is not the one that is on the presidium. That's the conduit, the protheans installed on their own.

 

The Citadel relay is the entire Citadel (I think) and it works like any regular relay (except for the dark space angle), i.e. size doesn't matter.

 

I will ask this though: The reapers took over the Citadel right out of dark space and then occupied it for centuries while wiping out the protheans. Why oh why did they never notice the conduit and, you know, threw it off the station? Would have been quite a surprise for the prothean scientists from Illos.

[Mcfly616]

Actually you are half right

 

The keepers don't respond to the REAPERS post sabotage

 

Post sabotage the keepers only respond to...the citadel...and the citadel is part of the catalyst...which controls the reapers.

 

Vigil confirms this via the dialog.

EDIT: here we go:https://www.youtube....utu.be&t=14m26s

 

"But the keepers are no longer directly controlled by Sovereign or its ilk. They evolved so that they only respond to the signals emitted by the Citadel itself"

 

 

The original flow was:

Sovy sends signal to keepers at citadel

 

Keepers receive signal

 

Keepers open citadel mass relay

 

Harvest

 

The new flow post sabotage is:

 

Sovvy sends signal

 

Keepers don't respond

 

 

However, as confirmed by the dialog, the keepers still react and listen to the citadel. Which is the catalyst.

 You're half right as well. The Citadel is not the Catalyst. The Catalyst is an omnipresent AI that resides within the Citadel. You're taking its words "it is a part of me" too literally. The Catalyst existed before the Citadel, therefore it is not the Citadel. The station is merely its home. 

 

 

Not to mention, anything Sovereign ever did was at the directive of the Catalyst itself. Seeing as how all Reapers are its thralls, and all Keepers are Reaper thralls, the Catalyst essentially influences all. And as the Protheans sabotaged whatever signal the Keepers receive in order to open the Citadel relay, there's an obvious disconnect in the Catalysts will being carried out. Ofcourse it's easy to extrapolate that Vigil simply assumed it was the lone Reaper vanguard where this disconnect occurred (as it had no knowledge of the Reaper AI that was embedded in the station). 

 

The keepers are genetically engineered to maintain the stations functions regardless of the disconnect. That's why they are still performing their duties on autopilot, while not opening the Citadel relay because it requires the signal that they're not receiving.

[SimonTheFrog]

The citadel mass relay is not the one that is on the presidium. That's the conduit, the protheans installed on their own.

 

The Citadel relay is the entire Citadel (I think) and it works like any regular relay (except for the dark space angle), i.e. size doesn't matter.

 

I will ask this though: The reapers took over the Citadel right out of dark space and then occupied it for centuries while wiping out the protheans. Why oh why did they never notice the conduit and, you know, threw it off the station? Would have been quite a surprise for the prothean scientists from Illos.

 

Right good point, my bad.
 I always thought that the conduit just uses a backdoor to the already installed relay of the citadel (which, in my mind was the tiny one). I never realized that the tiny one has been brought there by the scientists and is additionally to the actual big one.

 

And i must say that scenario is quite a head-scratcher (how did they go to the citadel from ilos prior to having a backdoor? How did they install the tiny relay ninja-style?)
Maybe we can somehow assume that they hid until the reapers left and then started to work on the backdoor (and then died of starvation).

[Ithurael]

 You're half right as well.

No...I am right right - 100% right right and the lore, dialog and codex supports this.

 

 

The Citadel is not the Catalyst.

 

"No The Citadel is Part of Me"

 

 

The station is merely its home. 

 

 

"The Citadel, it's my home"

 

This is one of the two points in your post you are correct on...the only two. The rest is headcanon and speculation

 

 

You're taking its words "it is a part of me" too literally.

 

That is the ONLY way to take the dialog. Sure we can interpret it multiple different ways but that is more subjective. I stay objective in my look at stories. While I enjoy a subjective discussion, for the sake of sanity I will stay objective.

 

 

The Catalyst existed before the Citadel, therefore it is not the Citadel.

 

 

Do you have any proof from the game, the story, or the dialog to prove this? The most I can come up with is from Leviathan DLC where they said they made the catalyst - which made the reapers. For all we know, the citadel could have been build by the army of pawns that glowjob had before the reapers. As the citadel is used as part of the creation of a new reaper.

 

 

Not to mention, anything Sovereign ever did was at the directive of the Catalyst itself. Seeing as how all Reapers are its thralls, and all Keepers are Reaper thralls, the Catalyst essentially influences all.

 

Yes...yes it does. Just like the citadel arms opening and closing...or that platform rising up...I mean...what is to stop starjar - who influences the keepers - from telling them to open the citadel arms during sovereigns assault? It isn't the prothean sabotage...that only affected the signal from sovereign to open the relay. And note. In ME1 starjar did not have the crucible docked so it wouldn't have new solutions. There is NO in game explanation for this. You can try to make one via headcanon, but it is not explained in the dialog.

 

Next you will probably say that "everything shouldn't have to be explained in a story'. No, it should not be totally explained, but at least give the reader or someone something that they can run with...If the catalyst in ME3 just said: "Oh, because of your crucible docking it woke me up, wtf is going on here?" It wouldn't have rendered ME1 (and by continuation ME2 and 3) inept.

 

 

 And as the Protheans sabotaged whatever signal the Keepers receive in order to open the Citadel relay, there's an obvious disconnect in the Catalysts will being carried out.

 

Ok,, the citadel relay function was rendered moot. That is NOT the problem. What is to stop it from opening the arms in ME1? It is shown in the end of the control cinematic that the arms are closing...somehow after the blue explosion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVhBz4ANj4&feature=youtu.be&t=4m17s

 

So...what is closing those arms? Everyone on the citadel has probably been ejected into space by now (as that is what would happen if you open the citadel up) so...the keepers did it or starjar did it directly. That is what the dialog and the narrative are telling us. Unless you can find some citation, codex entry, or story point that shows otherwise: Sovereign NEVER needed Saren - at all. The entire plot of ME1 is completely rendered pointless and ME2 and ME3 should NEVER have happened.

 

But don't feel that bad. ME1 renders itself pointless because when you raid Saren's base you find another prothean artifact...because...reasons.

 

 

 The keepers are genetically engineered to maintain the stations functions regardless of the disconnect. That's why they are still performing their duties on autopilot, while not opening the Citadel relay because it requires the signal that they're not receiving.

 

You are mis reading or somehow misinterpreting the lore.

 

Pre sabotage the keepers respond to:

Citadel

Soveriegn

 

Post Sabotage the keepers respond to:

Citadel

 

And it just so happens that the citadel is the reaper collective consciousness' home.

 

Looks like one or two writers didn't have their work peer reviewed eh...

[Tonymac]

Right good point, my bad.
 I always thought that the conduit just uses a backdoor to the already installed relay of the citadel (which, in my mind was the tiny one). I never realized that the tiny one has been brought there by the scientists and is additionally to the actual big one.

 

And i must say that scenario is quite a head-scratcher (how did they go to the citadel from ilos prior to having a backdoor? How did they install the tiny relay ninja-style?)
Maybe we can somehow assume that they hid until the reapers left and then started to work on the backdoor (and then died of starvation).

 

They programmed the Keepers to ignore it - squadmate banter in ME1 willl explain that they always wondered why the Keepers never payed attention to it.  Garrus is the one in my mind that I can recall saying it.  Take him to the Relay Monument in ME1, you will see.

 

Remember, in the time of the Protheans the supernova that moved and 'lost' the relay had not happened yet - in fact it did not happen until well into our cycle.  The Protheans had normal access to Ilos just like all of the other systems.

 

Ilos was a secret project, as was the Relay research.   By luck the Reapers destroyed the Ilos information - Vigil explains that one to you.  They were on the cusp of unlocking Mass Relay Technology when the invasion came, and Ilos went dark, severed all communications.  That kept them safe while the Reapers "harvested" the rest of the Prothean Empire.  The Protheans there on Ilos were in stasis cells to conserve energy / remain quiet, but Vigil's power supply started failing over the centuries it took the Reapers to do the job.  It took over 300 years for the Reapers to wipe out the Protheans.  Non-essential personnel were shut down first, but all but about 12 died out of the thousands that were there.

 

The 12 scientists used the Conduit to access the Citadel, and made changes so that the signal sent was corrupted and would be ignored by the Keepers.  Since Vigil had no contact with them, and the Citadel was beaten up pretty badly with the initial attack, it assumed that they had no food.

 

Once Saren and Sovereign knew about the conduit, it was too late to do much about it - it only worked on one direction as it was a prototype.  However, Saren could use the Conduit  to gain access to the Citadel while Sovereign attacked directly.  Saren was able to close the Citadel around Sovereign, protecting it from our fleets while it took manual control of the Citadel Mass Relay and activated it - bypassing the Keepers function.

 

Of course, Commander Shepard had been given a data file by Vigil which allowed him/her to override even what Sovereign was doing to the Citadel.  Shepard was able to have full control of comms and the Mass Relays, open the Citadel and save the day - after killing a Reaperized Saren clone thingy.  Sadly, for Sovereign, the loss of connection with its Reaperized cloneupon its death caused a 'stutter' or hiccup and it blacked out, dropping its barriers.  The fleets did the rest, and of course Joker led the final attack.

 

Therein lies what some of us see as one of the big plot holes.  If the Protheans can write code that can override Reaper Tech and Citadel protocols, where was the Starbrat in all of this?  It makes his appearance seem even more cheese filled - a pathetic attempt at an ending by a writer devoid of talent.

[Ithurael]

Therein lies what some of us see as one of the big plot holes.  If the Protheans can write code that can override Reaper Tech and Citadel protocols, where was the Starbrat in all of this?  It makes his appearance seem even more cheese filled - a pathetic attempt at an ending by a writer devoid of talent.

 

But it is so edgy and cool to have like the main bad guy be there the entire time...like whoa...like and have it like change everything we knew about the entire franchise...like...whoa...

 

Can you feel it? Can you feel it!!!

 

Believe it!

[Vazgen]

Therein lies what some of us see as one of the big plot holes.  If the Protheans can write code that can override Reaper Tech and Citadel protocols, where was the Starbrat in all of this?  It makes his appearance seem even more cheese filled - a pathetic attempt at an ending by a writer devoid of talent.

Vigil's data file only gives Shepard temporary control. One might think why it doesn't last...

[Tonymac]

Vigil's data file only gives Shepard temporary control. One might think why it doesn't last...

 

A valid point, Sir - quite valid.

 

However, that code allowed temporary control over the Starbrat, Sovereign's actions, and all of the Citadel controls.  

 

That's some pretty bossmode code.  Code so good and intelligently done that it thwarted the Reaper boss that is the collected intelligence of all Reapers - even if only temporarily.

 

Seem implausible?  That's because it is implausible.  Starbrat was never there in ME1.  Well, that's my take on it.

[Tonymac]

But it is so edgy and cool to have like the main bad guy be there the entire time...like whoa...like and have it like change everything we knew about the entire franchise...like...whoa...

 

Can you feel it? Can you feel it!!!

 

Believe it!

 

When you say Whoa, I here it in my brain like Keanu Reeves' space cadet self in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  Just because of the context of our conversation.

[Vazgen]

A valid point, Sir - quite valid.

 

However, that code allowed temporary control over the Starbrat, Sovereign's actions, and all of the Citadel controls.  

 

That's some pretty bossmode code.  Code so good and intelligently done that it thwarted the Reaper boss that is the collected intelligence of all Reapers - even if only temporarily.

 

Seem implausible?  That's because it is implausible.  Starbrat was never there in ME1.  Well, that's my take on it.

It does not give control over the Starbrat or Sovereign's actions. Quoting Vigil:

"It will corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give you temporary control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign"

You only get temporary control over Citadel's arms and Sovereign is forced to fight both yourself and the Alliance fleet in the meantime. We all know how it ended

 

It does not really thwart the Reaper boss, it only affects Citadel's mechanical functions. And we know that the Catalyst does not operate the Citadel. In ME2 (if you have completed scan the keepers) Chorban sends you a mail that mentions keepers responding to a signal every 50000 years. The vanguard Reaper sends the signal, the keepers activate the relay. Same deal with opening and closing arms. The security protocols that Vigil mentions are not Reaper-made. Sovereign itself needs to override them:

"Sovereign will override the Citadel's systems and manually open the relay."

 

If I were to guess, the Catalyst is only connected to the Reapers. Otherwise, it just sits on the Citadel without affecting anything on the station. That makes "the Citadel is a part of me" a total BS but it's nothing new regarding that line

[Ithurael]

And we know that the Catalyst does not operate the Citadel.

Do we have proof from the game of this?

 

The Catalyst IS the Citadel, the keepers respond TO the Citadel.

 

And also, WTF is closing the arms in the control ending? It can't be anyone on the bloody citadel because it was just opened like a flower expelling everyone into space (as the citadels gravity works when the arms are closed)

 

 

The vanguard Reaper sends the signal, the keepers activate the relay. Same deal with opening and closing arms.

 

Proof on the bolded or is that speculation?

 

What we KNOW

 

The keepers tend and respond to the citadel, they have the ability to activate the relay.

 

The Catalyst IS the Citadel. Or the Citadel is a part of the Catalyst and then it becomes his home...

 

Face it. The Starkid never existed in ME1

EDIT: Found it. God damn I am good at google

https://twitter.com/...046276831772674

 

and now we are left with questions, issues, plot holes and are forced to fill it in with headcanon.

[Tonymac]

It does not give control over the Starbrat or Sovereign's actions. Quoting Vigil:

"It will corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give you temporary control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign"

You only get temporary control over Citadel's arms and Sovereign is forced to fight both yourself and the Alliance fleet in the meantime. We all know how it ended

 

It does not really thwart the Reaper boss, it only affects Citadel's mechanical functions. And we know that the Catalyst does not operate the Citadel. In ME2 (if you have completed scan the keepers) Chorban sends you a mail that mentions keepers responding to a signal every 50000 years. The The vanguard Reaper sends the signal, the keepers activate the relay. Same deal with opening and closing arms. The security protocols that Vigil mentions are not Reaper-made. Sovereign itself needs to override them:

"Sovereign will override the Citadel's systems and manually open the relay."

 

If I were to guess, the Catalyst is only connected to the Reapers. Otherwise, it just sits on the Citadel without affecting anything on the station. That makes "the Citadel is a part of me" a total BS but it's nothing new regarding that line

 

Ok, you claim that the Starbrat does not control the Citadel, but it lives on it, is it - its his home?  And yes, I did the scans for Chorban back in ME1.  I even found the keeper that likes to go on smoke breaks and wander off, up in the embassies.

 

I find it hard to believe that the intelligence lives on the Citadel, yet has no control over it.  Perhaps it IS intentional that it doesn't have control as an act of camouflage, but they even reportedly build Reapers in the Citadel.  This means they have control over it - hell they built it!  The Citadel is also the heart of the Mass Relay network, and we know thew Reapers built those too.  

 

So, if Starbrat made the Reapers, and the Citadel, and the Citadel is a part of it, then I call BS that it does not control the Citadel.

 

Vigil's Data file worked on the Citadel security, and even blocked out what Sovereign was attempting manually.  Any programmer worth 2 cents understands priority protocols.  You would certainly give your ilk priority over the organics in controlling the station.  In any event, it was able to override what Sovereign was attempting.  I mean, How long does Sovereign need to log in anyways?

 

I think we are really hashing out minute details of not well thought out writing.  The Citadel is a trap - a Reaper trap.  You know they would always have a way to control it in the possible event of things going FUBAR.

[Vazgen]

@Ithurael - no proof, just headcanon. As for citadel opening in Control, more headcanon - it's the way the Crucible operates. You said it yourself, there are questions and plot holes and we're forced to fill them with headcanon.

@Tonymac - I agree, but I prefer searching for a way to explain it all without calling parts of it "bad writing". And if I were to call some parts of the trilogy that, I'd start from ME1, Reapers not finding Ilos despite mass relay leading to it (or from it, if you prefer) stuck on the Presidium, 12 scientists reprogramming organic (cyborg?) beings that self-destruct when tempered with, Sovereign requiring to override Citadel systems despite the station being Reaper-made...

[Tonymac]

@Ithurael - no proof, just headcanon. As for citadel opening in Control, more headcanon - it's the way the Crucible operates. You said it yourself, there are questions and plot holes and we're forced to fill them with headcanon.

@Tonymac - I agree, but I prefer searching for a way to explain it all without calling parts of it "bad writing". And if I were to call some parts of the trilogy that, I'd start from ME1, Reapers not finding Ilos despite mass relay leading to it (or from it, if you prefer) stuck on the Presidium, 12 scientists reprogramming organic (cyborg?) beings that self-destruct when tempered with, Sovereign requiring to override Citadel systems despite the station being Reaper-made...

 

You are right - its far more "gooder" to look at the fun parts of the series  

[Ithurael]

@Ithurael - no proof, just headcanon. As for citadel opening in Control, more headcanon - it's the way the Crucible operates. You said it yourself, there are questions and plot holes and we're forced to fill them with headcanon.

@Tonymac - I agree, but I prefer searching for a way to explain it all without calling parts of it "bad writing". And if I were to call some parts of the trilogy that, I'd start from ME1, Reapers not finding Ilos despite mass relay leading to it (or from it, if you prefer) stuck on the Presidium, 12 scientists reprogramming organic (cyborg?) beings that self-destruct when tempered with, Sovereign requiring to override Citadel systems despite the station being Reaper-made...

 

I can respect that.

[Xn xN7x]

Just had a awkward question O.O

 

If the levys created the reapers then why didnt they destroy them?

I never understood the point in where the levy said they turned on them and started wipping them out.

 

It is kinda weird that this could happen since as in the levy dlc you watched 1 levy utterly wipe a reaper out with a single thought.

 

That is way ever OP then anything technology in the timespan could have done besides the citidel energy way from the catalyst.

 

That stuff is some headache to think about lol.

[Ithurael]

Technically the leviathans made the catalyst.

 

The catalyst then built an army of pawns to search and scour the galaxy for information to solve the synth/org conflict

 

Then the pawns suddenly and deliberately attacked and slaughtered most of the leviathans.

 

The corpses of the leviathans were then processed to create Harbinger.

[SilJeff]

The catalyst is older than the citadel, so how can the catalyst BE the citadel? The citadel in the current cycle is no more than a paralyzed prosthetic appendage to the catalyst. Prosthetic because it came later [built by the reapers to facilitate the harvests, it wasn't created when the catalyst was made by the leviathans. If I built and superglued a wheel chair to me, am I a wheel chair now?]. Paralyzed because the protheans severed the connection between the catalyst and it. Both are still there, but one can't affect the other.

 

Part of =/= the entirety of. Just because the catalyst built itself a Citadel and stuck itself inside it doesn't mean that it is the catalyst.

[Ithurael]

Paralyzed because the protheans severed the connection between the catalyst and it. Both are still there, but one can't affect the other.

 

Do we have proof of this from the game? From the Dialog? From the Lore?

 

The prothean sabotage ONLY (and I mean only) affected the keepers. That is it. That is what the story tells us.

 

Post sabotage they only respond to the citadel, which is the catalyst, which is part of the catalyst, which is the catalysts home. And don't compare yourself to an AI. An AI=/= human/organic. It is like the false arguments, "Oh, if the citadel is the catalyst the reason he can't open or operate the arms is like the same reason you as an organic can operate your heart manually."

 

The reapers are a part of him to and he can control them completely - as seen in the blue and green ending.

 

You can make up whatever you want to make this plothole work for you but the lore, narrative, and dialog are in direct opposition to you.

 

The citadel is the home of and part of the catalyst (I assume the other part of the catalyst is the reapers I guess). and the keepers respond to it. That is how shep was able to be raised up to starjars chambers and how the citadel arms were able to be closed in the blue ending for...reasons.