191 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

1) Of course they did, that's why Quizzy was sent to see where she was.

2) Quizzy entering makes people lose concentration then batter-up.

3) Quizzy touched it, before it was floating above Cory's hand so no touchy.

4) Come on, if you are going to capture and use someone as a sacrifice, you kill everyone guarding them.

5) Because they didn't think it mattered.

 

... come on, if you are going to moan at least give us hard things to answer.

Wait... what?  Who exactly would be sending a Carta representative or Dalish spy to look for the Divine, and what reason could they possibly have for this?  Why would they be looking for her on their own?  The other explanations on this list aren't much better, but #1 really stands out to me...  I know that some people simply don't have any interest in analyzing fiction, and that's perfectly fine, but some of the justifications here are absurd.  "Because they didn't think it mattered?"  It's better to not try at all than to present arguments like this.

[Ogillardetta]

Because... when you have an opinion that contraries popular belief, or isn't socially acceptable... it's a troll!

Its all about how you present your opinion imo 

[Balek-Vriege]

1.  I got the impression that the Divine was held against her will outside the main festivities in a side room somewhere by Corypheus and his agents.  The Divine yelling for help is what got the attention of the poor/lucky sod that was walking by at the time, being the future Herald/Inquisitor.  Then the temple blew up moments later after the fumbling/blundering of the orb and mark.  Remember, the Inquisitor doesn't sound too worried that there's some huge evil plot when he/she says: "what's going on here?"  They were probably expecting some servant dropped a platter or something.

 

2.  Knocking the orb over made sense in the scene.  She was continuously struggling and moving throughout and with the most effort shown, was able to knock it out Cory's hand.  Also Corypheus and co were startled by the ignorant sod that just walked in, which meant they weren't as focused on binding the Divine.

 

3.  The orb was already activated before the Inquisitor walked in, but most likely not operational and not enough energy to grant the mark until the point where the future Inquisitor picked it up.  The energy/power requirements for activating it are hinted to be great by Solas in the epilogue and is why he gave it to Corypheus in the first place (and why he was at the valley to steal it and the mark back, but he would have been too late obviously and the Inquisitor was luckily at the right place at the right time).

 

4.  The door probably wasn't guarded because the guards were in on the plot.  Can't remember off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure the Corypheus agents with him were dressed as Templars/Mages.  Could be wrong since I don't have time to check atm.

 

5.  Best point, but then we wouldn't have a story.  We know our Darkspawn Magister and former High Priest of Dumat likes to preach and pontificate whatever dogma he believes in and likes it even better when someone asked him about it since DA2.  Corypheus believes himself to be unstoppable in his arrogance.  Why do you need to gag anyone when the ritual is five seconds from being completed and you are already powerful enough to take on the whole temple?  There's a reason why the Magisters like Corpheus are what they are (blighted super Darkspawn Emissaries).  It's because they have a whole lot of power/pride, but a little short on the wisdom.

[FlyinElk212]

You've already stated why:

 

Coryfishstick is incompetent. All of Thedas is incompetent. EVERYTHING IS INCOMPETENT.

[Krypplingz]

1. Negotiation take alot of time. During that time people need to eat, go to the toilet and sleep. There also have to be breaks for the parties to ponder new offers and ideas. 

The divine probably decided to go to a more private spot to think. The area is filled with templars and people loyal to the Divine. Dorothea is also an ex bard and capable of defending herself, she should have been able to survive by herself for 10 minutes. 

So she goes to the hall (probably followed by someone to the door, they scan the room and then let her be). BAM an old god appears, backed by grey warden mages. Dorothea goes "Wft, why are YOU guy's helping HIM?!". BAM they cast the spell that binds her. Cory goes: "Keep her still guyz, we have like ten minutes to go". Quizzy, one of the few people doing their business nearby, hears the screaming and goes to investigate. 

 

2. Quizzy open the door shouting. Concentration of the mages/Cory is disrupted (The bane of many summoner) and Dorothea makes the will save along with  a split second decicion to hit the ball, which seems to be the focus of the ritual/closest thing to hand).

 

3. The ball is already primed to make a more sophisticated mark between the divines bosom. It smacks the ground in primed state and Quizzy picks it up. It's still primed, but a bit more wonky, thus makes a smaller, more wonky mark on Quizzys hand. 

 

4. "IT WAS ONLY 10 MINUTES SER". She probably asked her guard for a few minutes in private, so the guard went for a ******, stood a bit away from the door, was momentarily distracted. Maybe he saw a few grey wardens who had offered to help defend the divine if the worst came to pass and trusted them (because of their new status of heroes after a recent blight) to keep an eye on the Divine and leap to her defence if something went awry.  Maybe the grey wardens killed the guard at the doors? (Cory turned them into specks of Ash). Maybe her guards were sneaky infiltrators?

 

5. The ritual was probably just a 10 minute affair. The area wasn't heavily populated and the Divine probably wished for a few moments of privacy to pray/ponder the situation. Silencing her would have take even longer, and since Corpy is cocky and believes that he is the new god, he figured he could probably dispatch some lowly mortal mages/templars without any problems. 

[Draining Dragon]

Since a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding my fourth point, I'll clarify: why didn't Coryfishstick post guards so that he wasn't interrupted?

[Aaleel]

I think I actually said 'you have got to be kidding me' out loud during the scene.

Warring parties coming together in one place and security is that bad. The Divine walking around with no one guarding her, potential rogue mages and Templars anywhere. The head of the mages and the Templars had the wherewithal to not come in person because they knew something bad might happen, but no one is looking after the Divine.

You're just walking around the halls no guards anywhere and come across this scene. The Divine is calling for help, no one is in ear shot but you, once again in some secluded area.

Great Wardens who weren't even part of the negotiations and should not have been there get close enough to the Divine to take her away. Don't have lookouts to see if anyone is looking for her, which common sense says they would be.

The whole thing was just ridiculous to me. But I kind of just let it go.

[KaiserShep]

Wait... what?  Who exactly would be sending a Carta representative or Dalish spy to look for the Divine, and what reason could they possibly have for this?  Why would they be looking for her on their own?  The other explanations on this list aren't much better, but #1 really stands out to me...  I know that some people simply don't have any interest in analyzing fiction, and that's perfectly fine, but some of the justifications here are absurd.  "Because they didn't think it mattered?"  It's better to not try at all than to present arguments like this.

 

This is why I only roll a human in this game. Race options are nice, but in this case I just can't really accept the logic behind a dwarf, Dalish elf or qunari giving two spits about looking for the Divine.

[Joe_S]

This is why I only roll a human in this game. Race options are nice, but in this case I just can't really accept the logic behind a dwarf, Dalish elf or qunari giving two spits about looking for the Divine.

 

I never got the impression that the future Quizzy was actually looking for the Divine.  More that the Quizzy was nearby and heard her calls for help and went to investigate.  Right place at the wrong time (for Cory at least).

 

3.  The orb was already activated before the Inquisitor walked in, but most likely not operational and not enough energy to grant the mark until the point where the future Inquisitor picked it up.  The energy/power requirements for activating it are hinted to be great by Solas in the epilogue and is why he gave it to Corypheus in the first place (and why he was at the valley to steal it and the mark back, but he would have been too late obviously and the Inquisitor was luckily at the right place at the right time).

 

 

I've actually started wondering about something that I think has been nagging in the back of my mind since my first play-through about this. Who really opened the Breach?  Supposedly the Orb was the trigger, but the Temple was still intact when Quizzy stumbles on Cory and the Divine.  Was it the act of Quizzy picking up the Orb and activating it what really opened the Breach?  If so, then Quizzy really is responsible for it,  even if inadvertently, which would be something you'd think someone would figure out after the Adamant/fade thing.

[KaiserShep]

I never got the impression that the future Quizzy was actually looking for the Divine.  More that the Quizzy was nearby and heard her calls for help and went to investigate.  Right place at the wrong time (for Cory at least).

 

Well, even just being there in general. The human backstory is the only one that really works well for the story to me.

[Balek-Vriege]

Since a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding my fourth point, I'll clarify: why didn't Coryfishstick post guards so that he wasn't interrupted?

 

Oh better question, but obvious...

 

Inquisitor looks a lot like Jane/Joe that went to the bathroom before the ritual got started so they would be at their best.  The lighting was bad so Adam who's a little blind anyways let them into the back room... 

 

Really we don't know the answer.  It's entirely possible they thought the coast was clear and all the agents quickly tried to finish the Ritual by focusing on binding the Divine, or that something else happened that allowed the Inquisitor to slip by like being behind their posted guards when the plot started.

 

@Joe_S

 

Since that revelation in the Fade I have been of the believe it was unintentionally the Inquisitor's fault.  We're not even sure if the breach would have been that serious or even existed if Corypheus had use it.  He may have had the power to control the breach and make a simple portal to the Fade for all we know.  The Divine would have died for sure though (she may have lived if whatever pulled her back hadn't in real plot) and Thedas would have been doomed if Corypheus reached the Fade to become a god.

 

It's pretty clear the explosion and the breach happened immediately after the Inquisitor picked up the Orb.  The Orb granted the Mark and the Inquisitor not knowing what the object may even be, inadvertently unleashed massive amounts of energy from the Mark (probably the energy the ritual/cory was transferring) and thus opening a huge physical rift to the Fade being the Breach.

 

Lesson:  Don't pick up strange orbs, with a funny glows, and weird runes all over it, when some super entity was just performing a ritual with it.  Bad news for everyone involved...

 

Or do and end up saving the world your pick.

[Joe_S]

Well, even just being there in general. The human backstory is the only one that really works well for the story to me.

 

I don't agree -- I think the game does make it pretty clear why all Quizzy were there:

 

Qunari: part of a mercenary company hired for additional protection

Dwarf: Carta sending an observer because, Profit! from whoever comes out on top

Elf: Whatever happens there affects them either way, so interested in seeing the outcome so they can plan how far away they need to move.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Well, even just being there in general. The human backstory is the only one that really works well for the story to me.

 

Same train of thought here though a Dalish mage would also work.

[In Exile]

Disclaimer: I did not hate Inquisition. I just think that it has wasted potential everywhere you look. Overall, though, it was a pretty good game.

That said, this plot was a lot weaker, in my opinion, than that of most Bioware games. There are lots of reasons for this, but to me, the biggest issue is how contrived the premise is.

I'm referring to the scene with Coryfishstick, Quizzy, the Divine, and the Idiot Ball. The major flaws in this scene are as follows:
1. Nobody notices that the Divine, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THEDAS, is missing. Is every religious and military leader in the world just that incompetent? Or were they aware she was missing and searching for her? If so, why was the Quizzy alone? If not, why wasn't the Quizzy at the meeting?
2. The Divine is being held immobile through magical means, yet somehow manages to knock the Idiot Ball out of Coryfishstick's hand. Are the grey warden mages just that incompetent? Moreover, is Coryfishstick just that incompetent? He seems to have a pretty strong grip; could a frail old lady even knock the Idiot Ball out of his hand?
3. How does the Idiot Ball give the Quizzy the mark? Was it designed to do this? Did it do that because Coryfishstick had activated it? If so, why didn't Coryfishstick take the mark for himself to avoid the exact kind of thing that happened?
4. Why wasn't the door guarded? (EDIT: To clarify, I'm asking why Coryfishstick didn't post guards to keep someone from interrupting the ritual.)
5. Why didn't they magically silence the Divine? Or even just gag her? Again, is Coryfishstick that incompetent?

I get that lots of plots require suspension of disbelief, especially in Fantasy. However, this plot strikes me as having an unusual number of problems.

What do you think?

With regard to to Orb Solas seems to have lied to Corypheus about what it wad meant to achieve. At the very least Corypheus did not know the true nature of the artefact.

[zeypher]

The one part that rubs me the wrong way is that we go from accused of divine's murder to herald in no time.

[McPartyson]

The first time I played the game, I had no real idea what happened in the introduction and totally forgot by the time I went to the Fade and then it reminded me.

 

I think they should of spent more time on the intro. I noticed the second time with the whole explosion at the conclave was integrated into the game splash screen, but then you make a character for half an hour and most people probably forget that part (I did). Then your character is in some sort of green place being chased by spiders and then your being interogated by cassandra. It's pretty confusing for those who would play the game just once.

 

A more fleshed out scene not so segmented showing the gathering at the conclave with The Divine, the explosion to follow etc would of been really helpful and worth the effort.

[GreyWarden_Smith]

I never got the impression that the future Quizzy was actually looking for the Divine.  More that the Quizzy was nearby and heard her calls for help and went to investigate.  Right place at the wrong time (for Cory at least).

 

 

I've actually started wondering about something that I think has been nagging in the back of my mind since my first play-through about this. Who really opened the Breach?  Supposedly the Orb was the trigger, but the Temple was still intact when Quizzy stumbles on Cory and the Divine.  Was it the act of Quizzy picking up the Orb and activating it what really opened the Breach?  If so, then Quizzy really is responsible for it,  even if inadvertently, which would be something you'd think someone would figure out after the Adamant/fade thing.

 

I agree

 

In the fade, the memories scene shows Corypheus attack the Inquisitor when they picked up the orb/anchor and there is a explosion that separates them which I took to represent that we actually set off the breach at that moment, thus we where thrown into fade instead of Corypheus and that was what Corypheus wanted to achieve from ritual. Or we just holding the anchor at the point of the completion of the ritual and dont actually set off but are holding the orb/anchor that it sends us instead of Corypheus

 

I Don't still understand why the divine was in the fade as well though. 

[NM_Che56]

I have yet to see any game or any movie that doesn't have a "ridiculously contrived plot".

[NotBeouwulf]

The ones who imprisoned her were Wardens. They were trusted actors so maybe no one saw it strange that the Divine left with them.

[Emmy]

Just my 2 cents, if you change the word from incompetence to arrogant, then yes, you have a pretty good plot line.

 

 

Just saying.

[Draining Dragon]

I have yet to see any game or any movie that doesn't have a "ridiculously contrived plot".

Mass Effect. Jade Empire. Knights of the Old Republic.

Lots of things.

[NM_Che56]

Mass Effect. Jade Empire. Knights of the Old Republic.

Lots of things.

All ridiculously contrived. LOL.

[KaiserShep]

Mass Effect. Jade Empire. Knights of the Old Republic.

Lots of things.

 

Come on. Mass Effect is the cat's pajamas and stuff, but there's plenty of silliness in its plot. What were the odds of Tali finding a lone geth that just so happened to be at one of Saren's super-evil debriefings with Benezia?

 

This mp3 of what is probably Saren and maybe Benezia is irrefutable evidence, because voice changing technology does not exist. But after this, we won't believe a word you say.

~The Council

[Draining Dragon]

All ridiculously contrived. LOL.

Could you clarify as to why you feel that way?

[NotBeouwulf]

Come on. Mass Effect is the cat's pajamas and stuff, but there's plenty of silliness in its plot. What were the odds of Tali finding a lone geth that just so happened to be at one of Saren's super-evil debriefings with Benezia?
 
This mp3 of what is probably Saren and maybe Benezia is irrefutable evidence, because voice changing technology does not exist. But after this, we won't believe a word you say.
~The Council

Don't forget Saren not destroying the Beacon on Eden Prime after he used it