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This plot is ridiculously contrived


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#126
MisterJB

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On a more serious note: PLOT QUESTION

 

What was it about the Divine that made the ball work? Like I don't get it. An appointed position held some special power or something? Why was the Divine's lifeforce needed to activate the thing? Was this explained?

 

I imagine it was a matter of pride. In his quest to become a god, he would use the life of the Maker's chosen.

 

Kind of like how Voldemort made his horcruxs out of extremely easy to identify objects rather than grabbing some random coin and then placing it into the pocket of a random muggle. Good luck finding that, Potter.
 


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#127
Nightdragon8

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its the same level of nitpicking you can do with ANY movie. Just roll with it man, just roll with it. Its called suspention of disbelief for a reason.


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#128
Helios969

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^Yeah, it's a damn video game.

 

Man this thread has had me in stitches with the multitude "contrived" moments in the many Bioware games.  Really though I can't think any game and very few movies that weren't filled with half-baked plot devices and contrived moments.  What really drives me crazy is Bioware's lack of understanding with the most rudimentary military tactics.  I guess that's just my pet peeve.



#129
robertthebard

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^Yeah, it's a damn video game.
 
Man this thread has had me in stitches with the multitude "contrived" moments in the many Bioware games.  Really though I can't think any game and very few movies that weren't filled with half-baked plot devices and contrived moments.  What really drives me crazy is Bioware's lack of understanding with the most rudimentary military tactics.  I guess that's just my pet peeve.


Mine was in Mass Effect, every time they said "Repeat" when talking on the radio. Repeat is a call for an artillery strike at the last coordinates that were fired upon. Drives me batty every time I see it...
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#130
New Kid

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I don't think this is a troll topic. I feel like these questions can be asked of many stories, they are just blanks that weren't filled in.



#131
Draining Dragon

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its the same level of nitpicking you can do with ANY movie. Just roll with it man, just roll with it. Its called suspention of disbelief for a reason.


No, this is pretty bad, even by those standards.

I never claimed other Fantasy plots were perfectly flawless and realistic, but Inquisition takes the Idiot Plot up to 11. The writing is on the level of the Star Wars prequels.

#132
Poison_Berrie

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It's not a god damn nitpick.. IT'S A BLATANT PLOT HOLE. Magical binding spell just happens to wear off so the Divine can hit the magical ball in the direction of the person who enters the room that just happens to be the inquisitor who enters without any issue because there just happens to be no guards at the door. Don't even get me started on the ending, Corypheus lifts up Haven, effortlessly destroying everything but needs to have a full scale invasion when the inquisitor is there for plot reasons. It's a poorly written/designed console action game that spits on the name Dragon Age. 

 

 

"You interrupted a ritual years in the planning." AND HE DIDN'T EVEN LOCK THE GOD DAMN DOOR.

If it makes you feel better imagine that there a multitude of parallel universes and the only one can play is the one where Corypheus forgot to lock the door, since in the other universes the Inquisitor died and he won.

 

In seriousness, though, these supposed plot holes are irrelevant to the plot. The same way you don't get to follow the detective(s) to their car, around the city and on their bathroom break. Though it's the set up of your characters power, this is a scene we only get a tiny glimpse of during the game, because that's all we need to get out of that scene.



#133
Miggs

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Is there such a thing as a work of fiction that has not been contrived?


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#134
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*

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The writers are incompetent and they know the fanboys/girls will blindly defend them so why even other trying to come up with a decent plot.

 

I think it's more a case of being jaded than incompetent. That or under constraints that we fans don't know or understand. DA:I has flashes of brilliance, especially in it's dialogue.



#135
Draining Dragon

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Is there such a thing as a work of fiction that has not been contrived?


Read the OP. That is all.

#136
SkyKing

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The plot also sucks because nothing really bad happened to the inquisitor. In most good plot games, something to their family or close person happens which is a driving force for revenge, etc. 

 

The inquisitor is by himself, no old friends or family, he gets the fade touch, for most of game it's like Corypheus has his own plans and is saying, "Outta the way, peck!". 

 

Bioware/EA got real cheap, probably said they don't need to hire an author or good story/plot writer.  



#137
TheLittleBird

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The plot also sucks because nothing really bad happened to the inquisitor. In most good plot games, something to their family or close person happens which is a driving force for revenge, etc. 

 

The inquisitor is by himself, no old friends or family, he gets the fade touch, for most of game it's like Corypheus has his own plans and is saying, "Outta the way, peck!". 

 

Bioware/EA got real cheap, probably said they don't need to hire an author or good story/plot writer.  

 

Here's the thing, though.

 

Inquisition had really good writers and authors working on it. I mean, I found both Asunder and The Masked Empire to be of excellent quality, and have even read Patrick Weekes' The Palace Job which was great.

 

Corypheus has some great dialogue, and his scene at Haven hints at greatness - even his final words (right before the orb gets smacked in his face) hint at it... but something went wrong in-between.



#138
Farangbaa

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We still on about your memories given back to you by some demon in the Fade?

Read that sentence a few times.

#139
Zatche

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I think it's more a case of being jaded than incompetent. That or under constraints that we fans don't know or understand. DA:I has flashes of brilliance, especially in it's dialogue.


I would guess it has more to do with focus. Bioware has always focused on characters and dialogue over a good overarching plot. Characters and providing situations for the player to make decisions. The very matter of giving a blank slate character authority over big decisions is usually going to require absurd circumstances.

#140
robertthebard

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Read the OP. That is all.


I did. At the end, you asked "What do you think?", and then proceeded to tell everyone that didn't jump on the bandwagon that they were wrong. That is all.

#141
rigron

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I agree with the OP. There are way too much of "a mage/The Maker did it" parts in Inquisition´s plot for the game to actually work in order for the already weak and simple story the game has to be able to impact me in any way. Worst "a mage/The Maker did it" part of the plot: Leliana is still alive even if you beheaded her and burned her dead corpse in Origins, although the mentioned part of the Big Bad Magister Inmortal DemiGod with 3 Grey Wardens losing their magic grip to a nonmage (in other words: normal) human who is a weak old lady is another big "a mage/The Maker did it" part that just lets you with a big facepalm.



#142
Draining Dragon

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I did. At the end, you asked "What do you think?", and then proceeded to tell everyone that didn't jump on the bandwagon that they were wrong. That is all.


Silly me, trying to discuss the plot in a section of the forum devoted to plot discussion.

#143
robertthebard

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Silly me, trying to discuss the plot in a section of the forum devoted to plot discussion.


There is a distinct difference between trying to discuss the plot and "Read the OP. That is all". You're not looking for discussion, you're looking for confirmation. When you don't get it, this is the result. Instead of addressing the issues one way or another, you dismiss dissenters with hyperbole. But let's do take a look at your premise, and the problems that I see with them, shall we?

The first issue you list is that nobody notices that the Divine is missing. How do you know? What access do you have to the game code that allows you to make this statement as if it were a fact? Do you have any information to support this claim, or is it that, in the heat of the moment, you decided that that's what is actually going on? Do link any relevant information that shows that your supposition is fact, I'd love to see it.

The next thing you bring up is the Divine being held, and then not held. You claim that this is impossible, despite what we see happen in the prologue, where Cory orders his adherents to kill the soon to be Inquisitor. When they shift focus from Task A to Task B, there are consequences to that action. That this is a probability escapes you, and is dismissed out of hand because reasons...

The next thing you present is instead of a statement, a question about the nature of the Orb, which, unfortunately, none of us really know. However, it would seem that it was integral to the creation of the Anchor, or why would Cory destroy Haven in an attempt to get the anchor back? Or, in order for your post to actually be relevant, do we have to disregard this?

The next thing is why Cory didn't post guards outside of the room? In this context, the answer is quite obvious, to me; he didn't want to draw any undue attention, maybe? Posting guards would surely not draw any attention to him, would it, especially when the Divine is missing?

The next thing is gagging the Divine? Why? If it hadn't been for the PC walking in on the ritual, it's game over for Thedas. Cory succeeds, and boom. The other thing here is, would there have been an explosion if not for the interruption? Do tell, how does that ritual work out if it's not interrupted, surely you've seen some youtube videos that show what happens if not for that? Can we, legitimately, claim that there was no "Divine Intervention"? Pun intended. Given how much we don't know about the Maker, who's to say?

All of this, however, is hinged on Number 1 in your position. How do you know people weren't searching for the Divine? How do you know, for example, that all of the potential PCs aren't actively searching for the Divine, and that the chosen PC is the one that finds her? We have no way to know what's going on outside that room.

Then there's the real issue with your whole subtext: We're actually physically in the Fade, gathering information from a Fear demon's minions. Do you understand the nature of fear? Do you understand that people that are afraid of spiders aren't afraid of giant spiders only, but are actually afraid of spiders that you can squish with a finger? So what we get can easily be distorted images of what actually happened. There are a myriad of ways that what we see isn't exactly what transpired, but what we were afraid might have transpired. Solas touches on this in one of his early dialogs: He relates the events of Ostagar from both sides of the Loghain was a traitor debate from these very forums. He then states that both of them are "real". That's the nature of the Fade, and, ironically enough, that's been the nature of the Fade since we learned about the Fade. It is shaped by dreamers, and the demons that control that particular section.

So sticking to the established lore is contrived. Of course, as the poster that you quoted that prompted this exchange pointed out, what work of fiction isn't contrived? It's fiction, it's all made up.
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#144
Krypplingz

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Silly me, trying to discuss the plot in a section of the forum devoted to plot discussion. 

 

Nah, that would be Story, Campaign & Character subforum, four subforums down. Scuttlebutt is a snazzy word for rumors and gossip. 

But to be less of a jerk. 

 

Solas touches on this in one of his early dialogs: He relates the events of Ostagar from both sides of the Loghain was a traitor debate from these very forums. He then states that both of them are "real". That's the nature of the Fade, and, ironically enough, that's been the nature of the Fade since we learned about the Fade. It is shaped by dreamers, and the demons that control that particular section.

 

That part from robertthebard. 

We actually see two different versions of the divines sacrifice. The vision at the Breach and the memories in the Fade. 

The true event is probably kept vague on purpose, so the player can fill in the blanks on their own. 



#145
Mirth

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I'd have to watch the scene again to be certain, but...
Quizzy picks up orb, gets the mark and inadvertently kills everyone.

Cory somehow survives AND has the orb back..... ??

Sure.. maybe I dropped it during the explosion/fade step, but that doesn't explain how Cory got it and survived the boom.
Timing on that move was just as divine as my interruption.

So..things go boom and Cory just slips away???

Why didn't he have his Dragon with him? I think just blazing Haven up with his Dragon in tow, sacrificing the divine in front of everyone, would have made for a much better show of authority.

#146
robertthebard

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I'd have to watch the scene again to be certain, but...
Quizzy picks up orb, gets the mark and inadvertently kills everyone.

Cory somehow survives AND has the orb back..... ??

Sure.. maybe I dropped it during the explosion/fade step, but that doesn't explain how Cory got it and survived the boom.
Timing on that move was just as divine as my interruption.

So..things go boom and Cory just slips away???

Why didn't he have his Dragon with him? I think just blazing Haven up with his Dragon in tow, sacrificing the divine in front of everyone, would have made for a much better show of authority.


Actually, this is really easy: Reference Legacy, or the scene when you first go into where the Well of Sorrows is. Since it's likely the PC does drop the Orb, and Cory can transfer to tainted creatures, and all of his minions are Wardens, which are, tainted creatures, it's not hard to figure out, or at least explain, in context with what we know about Cory.

#147
Elsariel

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Most of these questions could have been answered if we had an intro that focused on the Conclave. Just sayin'. ;)

#148
robertthebard

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Most of these questions could have been answered if we had an intro that focused on the Conclave. Just sayin'. ;)


Excepting that, it breaks one of the premises; you don't know what happened in the Conclave. The questions about it exist not arbitrarily, but because they're supposed to be there.
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#149
fhs33721

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The real question is: How the hell did the Inquisitor get away with killing everyone at the conclave and then getting hailed as the savior without anyone calling her/him out on it?

In terms of DA heros the Inquisitor totally lucked out.

I mean most people blame The  Warden for the Death of king Caillan for a long time. And everybody basically blames Hawke for everything. Meanwhile the Inquisitor gets away with actually being responisble for blowing up the conclave but everybody falls to their knees and whorships her/him after the first 15 Minutes of the game.



#150
stonerbishop

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Excepting that, it breaks one of the premises; you don't know what happened in the Conclave. The questions about it exist not arbitrarily, but because they're supposed to be there.


They could have revealed more in the fade