129 réponses à ce sujet

[Exalus]

Players in 2015 are not going to walk around chit chatting big hats for more than 3 and half minutes without getting bored. 

[Masque]

I just thought it was funny how quickly you went from stumbling out of the Fade to Cass throwing the book down and declaring the INQUISITION IS ON, B******!

 

Even Varric is all like 'most people would have spread that out over more than a day'.

[In Exile]

That would have worked possibly, but that means having a meaningful character there. I was thinking people like Trask Ulgo, Corporal Jenkins, or sister Lilith. Still to me the initial text is fine and no more exposition is needed. You learn as you go through dialogue with the main characters. I think both approaches work.

Wait Sister Litith? I don't recall that one.

[In Exile]

Slight nitpick, but the problem I have with the memory is that your armor changes to whatever you're currently equipped with. I'm no fan of the merc armor you crawl out of the Fade with, but I wish they kept that consistent.

I suppose another slight problem is that some imagery is strictly from the player's perspective.

Remember it's the Fade. It's not necessarily wholly the truth. You never see the true conclave. Solas made this point about Ostagar.

[Raiil]

I kind of concur. It wasn't terrible, but 3-5 minutes of background couldn't hurt. Like maybe the Dalish inquisitor has a fellow elf in there- a mage would pose as a member of the circle, while a rogue or warrior would hide in the shadows talking to a non-npc dalish elf mage posing as a circle one. The qunari consults with their employer or another qunari that's there. And so on and so forth. It's a little extra to get more invested in our characters. All of the intros could end with them hearing a suspicious noise, then go straight to the opening scene as we have it now.

[EmissaryofLies]

A lot of things sucked; the intro was hardly one of them.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

A lot of things sucked; the intro was hardly one of them.

so as a qunari you have a whole merc band

the entire merc banded is named and devloped for each character

 

and you never get to talk to them

and the origin of your charatcer is completely just poof

condensed into 2 sentences on a tarot card

 

no the intro was subpar

could have been leagues better 

[ThreeF]

 

and you never get to talk to them

and the origin of your charatcer is completely just poof

condensed into 2 sentences on a tarot card

 

not exactly 2 sentences on a tarot card there is a conversation with Josephine, Cullen, Vivienne where you can choose your background

[Biotic Flash Kick]

"Needs more expansive intro"

 

*takes time machine and tells Bioware. Bioware implements*

 

...fast forward to Nov. 2014

 

"The intro was sooooooooooooooooo unnecessary and boring".

 

 

That's BSN folks.

the intro was boring because it had little going for it and you had no backstory

a little child thrown to wolves and go. 

 

the intro was not impressive or expansive 

 

the intro would be deemed unnecessary because it does little since the closing of the breach it literally 3 hours of gameplay away 

please tell me how am i supposed to take the breach of the breach seriously when i can speed run the game in less than 34 hours on nightmare and toss aside the intro's build up 3 hours into the game.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

not exactly 2 sentences on a tarot card there is a conversation with Josephine, Cullen, Vivienne where you can choose your background

And that is somehow better than what we got in origins how?

 

even hawke escaping lothering had more impact as a backstory 

[ThreeF]

And that is somehow better than what we got in origins how?

 

even hawke escaping lothering had more impact as a backstory 

Actually you have more freedom/options to mold your character this way, it's just not a visual implementation,  at any rate  it's not just the tarot card lines and that was my point.

 

They wanted to put you right into the story, whatever you like this or not is another issue.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I agree that the DA:I intro was awful.

 

This obsession with having fast paced intros has been a detriment for Bioware IMO.

[KaiserShep]

Thinking about playing any event leading up to the conflict, I have to wonder how players would react to the human mage origin. This character is the only one of the options available that actually has to deal directly with mage uprising from within the Circle. If we were able to play this sequence, what prevents us from simply choosing to join the mage rebellion? We don't have a Duncan to conscript us, because no one's conscripting anyone to show up at a meeting at the Conclave, and this is a rebellion after all, so we should be able to choose to tell whoever to suck it and blast their asses with lightning and run off into the woods. The qunari merc certainly wouldn't have anything nearly as involved.

[Elsariel]

Thinking about playing any event leading up to the conflict, I have to wonder how players would react to the human mage origin. This character is the only one of the options available that actually has to deal directly with mage uprising from within the Circle. If we were able to play this sequence, what prevents us from simply choosing to join the mage rebellion? We don't have a Duncan to conscript us, because no one's conscripting anyone to show up at a meeting at the Conclave, and this is a rebellion after all, so we should be able to choose to tell whoever to suck it and blast their asses with lightning and run off into the woods. The qunari merc certainly wouldn't have anything nearly as involved.

Yeah, if you're allowed to see the mage conflict at the circle, the only right thing to do would be to allow you to pick sides. Player agency and all that. If you chose the rebellion, that would put you off course of the game so I can see why they didn't do that.

I still maintain that a conclave intro would have been much better.

[Il Divo]

Yeah, if you're allowed to see the mage conflict at the circle, the only right thing to do would be to allow you to pick sides. Player agency and all that. If you chose the rebellion, that would put you off course of the game so I can see why they didn't do that.

I still maintain that a conclave intro would have been much better.

 

At the least, I think it would have helped with the believability in recognizing why my PC happened to be the one to reach the Divine. Even with my noble background, I thought it was a bit puzzling that I happened to be the one closest to her. 

[ThreeF]

Thinking about playing any event leading up to the conflict, I have to wonder how players would react to the human mage origin. This character is the only one of the options available that actually has to deal directly with mage uprising from within the Circle. If we were able to play this sequence, what prevents us from simply choosing to join the mage rebellion? We don't have a Duncan to conscript us, because no one's conscripting anyone to show up at a meeting at the Conclave, and this is a rebellion after all, so we should be able to choose to tell whoever to suck it and blast their asses with lightning and run off into the woods. The qunari merc certainly wouldn't have anything nearly as involved.

One way to deal with it would be to make it so you don't have the option to do this, some sort of intervention, but that would mean to take away control fro teh player. The best that could be done in this setting is one additional scene involving you arriving to the Temple.. I'm not seeing it as something significant.
And you couldn't play the "forgot" card.

 

I still think that they should have had implement the "background setting" later on in  the Fade, instead of that memory thing, which was kind of cheesy and repetitive. I don't want to hear "What's going on here" ever again.

[line_genrou]

Actually you have more freedom/options to mold your character this way, it's just not a visual implementation,  at any rate  it's not just the tarot card lines and that was my point.

 

They wanted to put you right into the story, whatever you like this or not is another issue.

I don't think they wanted to put you into the story, more like they wanted to show the story

There's a difference there

With each game the immersion is sacrificed, the most importat aspect in an RPG, mind you

[Elsariel]

One way to deal with it would be to make it so you don't have the option to do this, some sort of intervention, but that would mean to take away control fro teh player. The best that could be done in this setting is one additional scene involving you arriving to the Temple.. I'm not seeing it as something significant.
And you couldn't play the "forgot" card.

I still think that they should have had implement the "background setting" later on in the Fade, instead of that memory thing, which was kind of cheesy and repetitive. I don't want to hear "What's going on here" ever again.

I think there is a way to do it. The Inquisitor clearly didn't forget being at the conclave. So you would be able to walk around at the conclave, talk to folks, get a feel for how big an issue all this is. All the while noticing, maybe, how nobody has seen Divine Justinia since she arrived. You go poking around, stumble on some shouting behind big closed doors, and as soon as you open them, you get a white screen and the next thing you know, you're running from fade spiders.

I would probably make it more exciting and dramatic than that but you get the gist.

[ThreeF]

I don't think they wanted to put you into the story, more like they wanted to show the story

Put you in the story as in put you in the middle of the action, which is exactly what the intro does.

 

Personally I did not feel more immersed in DAO because of the prologues, so YMMV.

 

In DAO I see prologues as something that was giving you more insight to some of future parts of the game, for each character, oh and one of them also made me distrust Duncan.

[ThreeF]

I think there is a way to do it. The Inquisitor clearly didn't forget being at the conclave. So you would be able to walk around at the conclave, talk to folks, get a feel for how big an issue all this is. All the while noticing, maybe, how nobody has seen Divine Justinia since she arrived. You go poking around, stumble on some shouting behind big closed doors, and as soon as you open them, you get a white screen and the next thing you know, you're running from fade spiders.

I would probably make it more exciting and dramatic than that but you get the gist.

 

You think that would be more interesting? I don't know, I guess it would depend on how it would be written, would you have time to set parameters about who you are for instance? If so it would have to be done mostly through conversation.

 

edit: something else came to mind. Currently the prologue serves as tutorial, I wonder how many new players would be willing to sit through a good chunk of dialogue before actually starting to play?

[KaiserShep]

I think there is a way to do it. The Inquisitor clearly didn't forget being at the conclave. So you would be able to walk around at the conclave, talk to folks, get a feel for how big an issue all this is. All the while noticing, maybe, how nobody has seen Divine Justinia since she arrived. You go poking around, stumble on some shouting behind big closed doors, and as soon as you open them, you get a white screen and the next thing you know, you're running from fade spiders.

I would probably make it more exciting and dramatic than that but you get the gist.

A way this might work is to basically have the entire Conclave sequence be a cut scene, obviously without Shepard-level dialogue hijacking like the intro to ME3. Walking around clicking to speak to NPC's just wouldn't really serve well here, since a full gameplay sequence controlling the character's movement would be pointless as there would be no quests to fulfill at this point.

[In Exile]

At the least, I think it would have helped with the believability in recognizing why my PC happened to be the one to reach the Divine. Even with my noble background, I thought it was a bit puzzling that I happened to be the one closest to her.

It's intentional. You're supposed to have just blindly stumbled on the ritual - sheer fluke. With the choice being that the Maker led you there or ye know it was fluke (#atheism).

[Elsariel]

You think that would be more interesting? I don't know, I guess it would depend on how it would be written, would you have time to set parameters about who you are for instance? If so it would have to be done mostly through conversation.

edit: something else came to mind. Currently the prologue serves as tutorial, I wonder how many new players would be willing to sit through a good chunk of dialogue before actually starting to play?

Well, I think it would be interesting. I'm not someone that needs to start into combat straight away. Talking to people and picking up on clues on what's going on would be interesting to me. It worked for the DAO prologues, right? You eventually got into combat but not without first getting a feel for who you are.

[KaiserShep]

The problem with picking up on clues for anything is that you can't rightly forget them later. Basically, anything that happens before the explosion must be completely irrelevant to the plot of the game. The only thing we can get insight on prior is the mage/Templar thing, but anything ominous leading to finding the Divine and grabbing the Bocce ball of Destiny must be left out.

[Elsariel]

The problem with picking up on clues for anything is that you can't rightly forget them later. Basically, anything that happens before the explosion must be completely irrelevant to the plot of the game. The only thing we can get insight on prior is the mage/Templar thing, but anything ominous leading to finding the Divine and grabbing the Bocce ball of Destiny must be left out.

Oh, I just meant clues like overhearing strange conversations, noticing missing guards, hearing strange gossip... Anything that might tip something was a little off at the conclave. Nothing big. Just something that would entice you to try to explore or figure out what's going on. You would also get a feel for the mage/Templar conflict and for your own Origins. If you are a noble, you would probably be with other nobles. If you're a mage, other mages. Dalish spy? Trying to blend in. Things like that.