256 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

I'm saying it's dumb because warriors aren't mages. They shouldn't have magical powers. And if they do enemy warriors should have the same powers to use against the player.

 

Exactly. If warriors can use magic, why aren't they sent to the circle with the other mages?

 

And when enemies don't get to use the same things my party does, it just makes every victory feel hollow. I get to fight with real bullets - enemies gets a paintballgun. And then they add these restrictions to the players, which makes no sense at all, to make the game more "difficult". You know what would balance the combat quite a bit more? Letting enemies be able to use abilities too...So simple, and so logical.

[MadDemiurg]

To be fair taunt is not the only magical ability Rogues and Warriors have in DA:I. In fact most of them look like magic. Realistic medieval feel was gone in DA2 already, and DA:I isn't any better. It feels more like an arcade or anime to me.

 

Just a reminder of how combat used to feel in Origins:

https://www.youtube....VTl2ii8BM#t=195

 

And this is DA:I reaver gameplay footage:

https://www.youtube....h?v=x-88hFymOA0

 

(I'm obviously exaggerating, but the point still stands)

[Rawgrim]

DA:O certainly had some over the top abilities too. And people did complain about them. Bioware decided to ignore the complaints and go "full retard" on the abilities in DA2. Not sure if there is a single ability in that game that is ven remotely believable. Pommel strike, maybe?

[MikeJW]

If a single game can kill a genre than that genre is either not worth saving or is already dead.

[Rawgrim]

If a single game can kill a genre than that genre is either not worth saving or is already dead.

 

True that. Very true, in fact. I guess "franchise" would be a better word than "genre".

[MadDemiurg]

DA:O certainly had some over the top abilities too. And people did complain about them. Bioware decided to ignore the complaints and go "full retard" on the abilities in DA2. Not sure if there is a single ability in that game that is ven remotely believable. Pommel strike, maybe?

Let's say Origins felt mostly reasonable. The only ridiculous ones I can remember were Scattershot and knockdown on Champion's shout.

[Rawgrim]

Let's say Origins felt mostly reasonable. The only ridiculous ones I can remember were Scattershot and knockdown on Champion's shout.

 

Yeah its a threshold, I think. One can accept a handul of things. But when everything gets utterly overblown...Feels like a Michael Bay movie, or something.

[AlanC9]

I'm saying it's dumb because warriors aren't mages. They shouldn't have magical powers.

They're magic powers? News to me. Last time I checked they worked fine even within a Glyph of Neutralization.

I'm tempted to beat the point into the ground a bit, but I figure you get it.

[Realmzmaster]

Let's say Origins felt mostly reasonable. The only ridiculous ones I can remember were Scattershot and knockdown on Champion's shout.

 

What about Song of Valor (which increased mana and stamina regeneration) and Captivating Song (which immobilized the enemy) for the Bard? Feast of the Fallen for the assassin (which restores stamina)? Pick any of the summons from the Ranger specialization.

 

Also most if not all the abilities from Awakening overpower (and some are simply nonsensical) all the classes.

[Rawgrim]

What about Song of Valor (which increased mana and stamina regeneration) and Captivating Song (which immobilized the enemy) for the Bard? Feast of the Fallen for the assassin (which restores stamina)? Pick any of the summons from the Ranger specialization.

 

Also most if not all the abilities from Awakening overpower (and some are simply nonsensical) all the classes.

 

Bard songs never make sense in any games. I mean, the enemies can hear the songs too. they should get the same bonuses. Especially since they get the bonuses if their own bard sings the exact same song. I blame D&D for the bards being the way they are now.

[Emu8207]

I think CRPG is a dying breed, shame too as it was a good genre of the RPG tree.

[Rawgrim]

I think CRPG is a dying breed, shame too as it was a good genre of the RPG tree.

 

Movies too. All generic pg-13 stuff now, with as much special effects as possible. Apparently that is the same as good writing and a good product.

[AlanC9]

Movies too. All generic pg-13 stuff now, with as much special effects as possible. Apparently that is the same as good writing and a good product.

Note that this is a problem with the local theaters, not movies themselves. More than a dozen films open every week here in New York, and hardly any of them are FX blockbuster types.

[spacefiddle]

Some of them are not particularly fond of the time events in DAI. Saving all the NPCs in Haven is one such timed event. .  

Also are you telling me that your warden did not pick elfroot. metals and other materials for potions, poisons and traps?

You are telling me that the warden's party did not take trips to the sellers that had unlimited amounts of certain resources (like the quartermaster in the Circle Tower with unlimited lyrium)? I thought the warden had a Blight to end.

Did your warden stop to do the Crime wave or take out Gaxkang? Surely the warden had better activities to engage in? You mean your warden did not engage in the chantry board, Mage Collective or the Blackstone Irregulars?

 

The whole post had excellent points, but I wanted to highlight these questions.  I have some suspicions about the modern hatred of sidequests.  I'm old.  Back in the day, the sidequests were a huge part of what you paid admission for.  Who wanted a linear game where you just hopped from plot point to plot point being BIG DAMN HERO for 12 straight hours then game over, on to the next?  Stay a while, and listen.

 

I'd assert that it is actually more modern console-mentality to be demanding constant "heroic action."  Younger reviewers from a variety of sources talk about the time it takes to do stuff.  Do a search and you find game boards of people demanding ways to speed up the War Table missions, and tons of people suggesting you actually set your &*$@?!!ing system time on your PC ahead, because omg finding that staff takes TWENTY HOURS!  I may not be alive tomorrow! Gimme now now nownownow arghpbllrgh

 

At the same time, more effort - lots more really - could be made towards more compelling wastes of time.  Yeah, we filter past games through nostalgia hipster glasses, and we remember not just the actions we took, but how we *felt* when taking them, when things were new to us and every mystery uncovered was a revelation.  So that's definitely a factor.  But it's brought out in us more, I think, when here in DA:I, you can explore to some random nowhere off the edge of never and find a strange scene that - means nothing.  Has nothing, does nothing, has no NPCs near it except maybe the one you killed, and if you're lucky you find a page or two of text to read.

 

It seems like such a waste of potential.  I don't remember who mentioned it, one of the Forbes reviewers.  Where's the cranky old hermit and the tree he hates?  Where's the sense of wonder and a living world you could be surprised by?

 

If there's a single flaw to DA:I, it's that there are no surprises.  I don't mean plot twists or story, I mean the world.  Pretty soon, you've seen it all.  It's less exciting to discover a new schematic when you come to expect it will look like 85% of all the other schematics.  It's a pretty world, but devoid of life outside your outposts and their looped NPC set-piece conversations.  The feeling of an empty set is made worse by bugs like the long dead stretches with no party chatter, no music triggering.  It highlights what's lacking to the player and pulls them out of the world.

 

If you want to amaze everyone and guarantee this game a long life, ongoing player engagement, and receptiveness to DLC, use Patch 4 to populate the world.  Give me my cranky hermit back.

[metatheurgist]

They're magic powers? News to me. Last time I checked they worked fine even within a Glyph of Neutralization.

I'm tempted to beat the point into the ground a bit, but I figure you get it.

Of course they're magic powers. Mind Control is Blood Magic, everybody knows that. As to why Glyph of Neutralization doesn't work, I dunno, you should consult the local 508 magic glyph union. Maybe it's broken.

[MadDemiurg]

What about Song of Valor (which increased mana and stamina regeneration) and Captivating Song (which immobilized the enemy) for the Bard? Feast of the Fallen for the assassin (which restores stamina)? Pick any of the summons from the Ranger specialization.

 

Also most if not all the abilities from Awakening overpower (and some are simply nonsensical) all the classes.

Yeah, I was mainly thinking about warrior abilities when I posted. As for rogues, they also had their share of the silly stuff, although stuff like Feast of the Fallen can be defended saying that your character becomes a psycho maniac that gets a second wind whenever he slits someones throat. In combat stealth was magical in all DAO installments.

 

Awakening was just silly, If DAO combat had problems, DAO:A combat was completely broken. I always pretended it didn't happen. If rating DAO:O with DAO:A I'd easily shave off several points from the original score.

 

Still, as I said, DAO felt reasonable most of the time to me.

[AlanC9]

Of course they're magic powers. Mind Control is Blood Magic, everybody knows that. As to why Glyph of Neutralization doesn't work, I dunno, you should consult the local 508 magic glyph union. Maybe it's broken.

 

Good to see you're not taking your point seriously; I was beginning to worry about you.

 

We both know perfectly well that the abilities aren't magical. You keep calling them magic because you're trying to keep thinking of them as having some justification in the game world -- or rather, you're trying to pretend that they have a justification. Thing is, they don't. It's just gameplay.

[Xralius]

Bioware is dead. Hopefully other companies carry the torch, and the company fails for betraying its fans.
Divinity:OS was really fun to play and very well done but a bit goofy for my tastes; a gooz sign for the genre's future though.
Looking forward to many CRPGs and Bethesda games.

[FKA_Servo]

Bioware is dead. Hopefully other companies carry the torch, and the company fails for betraying its fans.
Divinity:OS was really fun to play and very well done but a bit goofy for my tastes; a gooz sign for the genre's future though.
Looking forward to many CRPGs and Bethesda games.

 

I hope Bioware keeps doing what it's doing just for this guy.

[katokires]

DA:A is essentially Inquisition. Well a MUCH BETTER version of Inquisition but that's it.

You have a keep.

You craft.

You make runes.

You deal with nobles.

You fight against an intelligent darkspawn. (Except that there I could agree with him and even help him)

If Inquisition ws 1.000x better then it would be DA:A

Awakening is bad somehow, but now it looks like the best game ever. The story is so much better than Inquisition... So much deeper. To think that the darkspawn do actually have someone close to one of your companions by his side... oh god, if it was a full game with proper development time it would have been amazing...

But now Legacy and Mark of Assassin, along with Awakening, all look so much better after the **** VERSION of these things they put on Inquisition

[In Exile]

To be fair taunt is not the only magical ability Rogues and Warriors have in DA:I. In fact most of them look like magic. Realistic medieval feel was gone in DA2 already, and DA:I isn't any better. It feels more like an arcade or anime to me.

Just a reminder of how combat used to feel in Origins:
https://www.youtube....VTl2ii8BM#t=195

And this is DA:I reaver gameplay footage:


(I'm obviously exaggerating, but the point still stands)

Combat in DAO was based on magic. It had to be magical, because there's no other way to address the survivability issue that plagues all hero-worship fantasy stories. In the same way that supposed badass normal Batman is actually a superhuman by IRL standards (i.e. he's Captain America) the melee fighters in DAO had superpowers.

[katokires]

The whole post had excellent points, but I wanted to highlight these questions.  I have some suspicions about the modern hatred of sidequests.  I'm old.  Back in the day, the sidequests were a huge part of what you paid admission for.  Who wanted a linear game where you just hopped from plot point to plot point being BIG DAMN HERO for 12 straight hours then game over, on to the next?  Stay a while, and listen.

 

I'd assert that it is actually more modern console-mentality to be demanding constant "heroic action."  Younger reviewers from a variety of sources talk about the time it takes to do stuff.  Do a search and you find game boards of people demanding ways to speed up the War Table missions, and tons of people suggesting you actually set your &*$@?!!ing system time on your PC ahead, because omg finding that staff takes TWENTY HOURS!  I may not be alive tomorrow! Gimme now now nownownow arghpbllrgh

 

At the same time, more effort - lots more really - could be made towards more compelling wastes of time.  Yeah, we filter past games through nostalgia hipster glasses, and we remember not just the actions we took, but how we *felt* when taking them, when things were new to us and every mystery uncovered was a revelation.  So that's definitely a factor.  But it's brought out in us more, I think, when here in DA:I, you can explore to some random nowhere off the edge of never and find a strange scene that - means nothing.  Has nothing, does nothing, has no NPCs near it except maybe the one you killed, and if you're lucky you find a page or two of text to read.

 

It seems like such a waste of potential.  I don't remember who mentioned it, one of the Forbes reviewers.  Where's the cranky old hermit and the tree he hates?  Where's the sense of wonder and a living world you could be surprised by?

 

If there's a single flaw to DA:I, it's that there are no surprises.  I don't mean plot twists or story, I mean the world.  Pretty soon, you've seen it all.  It's less exciting to discover a new schematic when you come to expect it will look like 85% of all the other schematics.  It's a pretty world, but devoid of life outside your outposts and their looped NPC set-piece conversations.  The feeling of an empty set is made worse by bugs like the long dead stretches with no party chatter, no music triggering.  It highlights what's lacking to the player and pulls them out of the world.

 

If you want to amaze everyone and guarantee this game a long life, ongoing player engagement, and receptiveness to DLC, use Patch 4 to populate the world.  Give me my cranky hermit back.

I agree with some points but I'd like to add two more:

1 - The quantity. The amount. This matters, been saying that for a while now. One thing is to do 10 hours of fetch quests. Another is to do 100 hours. 10 hours spread throught the game doesn't disconnect you from your story and your character, 100 hours do, because there isn't that much main story to put between them, there is not enought story to spread 100 hours thin.

2 - The context. When we went to the brecillian forest there was a context, we were doing that for a reason and the things that happened there were part of that context. And you had multiple ways of dealing with it. From the boring kill and loot to the riddle games. And engaging such activities the extra activities connected to the main ones. The juggernaut armor with the Arcane Warrior lore all made sense in that region, but well, making sense Inquisition does, it fails in the connection.

There is no way to keep connection in such a huge world without having at least 10 times more main quests.

Edit: Putting it simples: Why the hell would I go to Emprise du Lion or Emerald Graves if it makes no difference in my life? (I did, I'm a completionist, but there is no reason to besides my own completionist compelling and it makes no difference for the story)

 

Just thought of something it would perhpas be a good fix for Inquisition: Limiting maps by choices. Like having to choose between Emprise du Lion and Hissing Wastes would be AMAZING. At least double the replay value and of course they could put interesting consequences for the story. Players would actually have to choose (wither because of story, loot or companion quest doesn't matter) their available world. Don't know, it just came to my mind and I liked it, would be interesting.

[MadDemiurg]

Combat in DAO was based on magic. It had to be magical, because there's no other way to address the survivability issue that plagues all hero-worship fantasy stories. In the same way that supposed badass normal Batman is actually a superhuman by IRL standards (i.e. he's Captain America) the melee fighters in DAO had superpowers.

There's a thing called "suspension of disbelief". I can believe that a skilled swordsman can single-handedly beat five other guys as long as he's not flying while doing it, even though it's probably not feasible IRL There's a difference between showing feats of exceptional luck and endurance and striking earth with a sword so that flames erupt from it. Heroes in action and fantasy have always been overpowered, but some at least try to look real. This is a subjective matter of course, and what one may find believable breaks immersion for other. To me, DAO did not have too many immersion breakers to ruin the medieval fantasy feel. DA2 and DA:I did.

 

As for "Combat in DAO was based on magic" - Neither DA:O, nor the subsequent titles actually have it written into the lore. If lore established that warriors/rogues actually use magic powers that would be a different case,

[MadDemiurg]

Game companies move on and other game companies step up to make the games the moved on companies stop making, either worse or in some circumstances better, BioWare has stated there intentional route, either keep supporting an enjoy the new direction or simply dont an go support a company that makes the games u desire to play.

 

Never understood the mentality of haunting a forum of a company that "used" to make the games i liked but no longer does, easier for me just to find some other franchise to support, BioWare games still perk my interest but no idea how long that will continue

And I actually almost never post on the boards of the games I like, apart from maybe a few posts in strategies discussions. I just usually don't have anything to say there . OTOH some discussions here are fun.