16 réponses à ce sujet

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

First of all let me be clear - you shouldn't speak of 'MMOfication of DA:I' if you don't have nesessary experience in MMORPGs that are directly relevant to DA series. In fact DA:I is a rip-off from Lord of the Rings: Online placed into Frosbite 3 environment.

 

Have you ever tried LotRO, MMOfication compliants?

 

It is a story and lore-driven gameplay, which is in means of storytelling BOUND to apply to existing Tolkien books. That actually means that lore focus can't be broken at any means, as LotRO is based on it. Like DA: O was in its time.

 

And yet it is very user friendly and leaves me with a warm, homey feeling everytime I log off to go to sleep. DA: I doesn't in a number of ways.

 

Ok, why is that so?

 

First of all LotRO is traditional MMORPG with traditional year 2006 controls.

 

No one thought about making game more arcade just because 'times have shifted' or 'audience is not the same as it was once'.

Yes, some things were simplified to get new players into the game. But the combat is still tactical with at least 3 groups of combination strikes and 5 classical MMORPG classes (tank, single-target DPS, AOE DPS, Debuffer/Control, Healer/Buffer) and it stays like this from the very launch. There are like 9 total classes in LotRO with some combining different roles.

 

At this point Dragon Age: Inquisition is an arcade box with a joystick (sorry, TRON):

1. While there are still 5 classes they're utterly simplified and are combined into few characters.

It means we have AOE DPS (well, a few AOE DPS skills in mage class trees) and we may choose to rank some buffer (barrier) or control (fear) skills... we won't use because we don't have enough skill slots in the UI. Pointless.

That's why I usually take 1 tank, 2 rogue single-target DPS, 1 buffer (usually it's Solas with barrier).

2. Tactical combat requres quick target switch and advanced positioning, with both being unnesessary challenging because of no isometrical camera. Do I have to clarify you can do what you want with your camera in LotRO?

3. While both games have Targeted attack, LotRO is focused on using different skills in different sequences, like piano playing. It is happening because LotRO actually HAS 4*10 (40 !) skill slots you can set to your liking and around 40 active skills you can use.

DA:I doesn't have both, you see? No skills to bind to slots and, actually, no slots. So it's more about using autoattack with a few QTE-styled skill usage, like, i don't know... DMC? Oh. DMC got strike streaks and advanced combat field positioning (even if i hate arenas). Okay, like ripped DMC.

 

Second, MMOs are about player interaction. Since there's no multiplayer impact on singleplayer you can't say DA:I is a MMO-something. It isn't even a pretender.

 

Let me clarify - MMO worlds are usually vast and filled with tons of content. You chose what you want of this content and the rest you can skip. If you need anything from the part you've missed you can always ask other players to help. I've never been questing in Great River as I hate Rohirrims and I could skip it, but I got the crafting recipies I need for that tier from another source.

 

You can't skip content like that in single-player games because there's no friend that can come up and say: 'whoa, look what I've got from the last resource farm'. There's no trader who is like 'Come up here folks, fresh essences from West Gondor'. There's no kinnie (clanmate) who you can ask like 'I don't do raids, but I need that Starlight Crystal. Could you please save one for me next time you're raiding?'.

 

You. Are. Alone.

 

That means you have to do everything yourself. And it's allright if developers make these parts immersive, like it is in Skyrim + mods.

And if it isn't immersive, what then?

 

It is a waste. Not MMOfied content, just poorly designed.

 

Let's speak of customization options.

 

MMORPGs always allow players to customize their appearance in tons of ways. Hell, I can even customize my portait frame in LotRO if I want to and have nesessary achievements.

 

Dyes? Of course.

It's a part of immersion to have the costume that fits the surroundings or the party you play in. Uniform? Easy! That awesome black cape (which we don't have in DA:I at all) be red? Just get the dyes and paint it!

 

Special shop with cosmetic sets that look awesome? Sure! Lalia's market is always ready to see ya and ya wallet.

 

More than 50 armours in 3 types? Easy! Now it's something about 150+ sets and more than 1000 single items you can choose from.

 

Or the hairstyles. 22 hairstyles are default for a game that was released in 2007 or so. 22 hairstyles aren't enough and players constangly rant about it.

 

Now please tell me how DA:I is MMOfied without customization?

 

We have no dyes. That's why I don't change my armour often (i refuse to wear ****** pink and yellow fullplate, it's stupid!).

Another reason I don't change my armour often is that we have like 10 sets of armour available. It isn't lack of content, it's next to no content (sorry to break it to you).

 

Well we have a DLC that brings some Inquisitor crafting recipies which can be used to craft stuffs, aye. For 10 bucks. **** you, please, it's almost a month subscription to LotRO.

 

You know, I've brought what we call hairstyles to LotRO friends to see. Well, one of them choked with pizza and the other one kept saying I'm joking. No, I wasn't, Jeremy. what we got in the RPG for 45-60 bucks.

 

Player-to-Developer and Developer-to-Player communication

 

MMORPGs need to evolve constantly to give players what they want. That's why feedback and honest developer reaction on feedback is something we must have.

 

http://www.lotro.com...roducers-letter

 

Please, check it.

It is a clear message - we are going to go there, do that and focus on this.

Great, right?

 

As I don't see that advanced plans of Bioware to share with fans I'll refer to this:

http://forum.bioware...unity-concerns/

 

Thanks, Mark. We are moved that you were following community's concerns for a week after release.

Thing is - game support shouldn't last for a week. Just a tiny notice, I know, but I think I can complain here a bit?

 

And tbh i'm shocked that developers are so focused on telling us what particular bugs they've solved. I mean it's great when they do, but, er, any plans?

 

Okay we have a facebook page for the Dragon Age game community, alright.

https://www.facebook...agonage?fref=ts

 

I mean it's great that you won some GOTY awards for EA PR and trains of gold to the reviewers, I'm fine with it. I don't really care about how many dragons there were killed in total since I have lauphable count of 10 in my playthrough, but ok, someone will surely like it. I have a more pressing question like... Should we wait for decent DLC or just uninstall the game for the next year? EH?

 

So please, people, be honest.

Don't call a game MMOfied when it's just poorly designed, thank you.

[SunburnedPenguin]

I play Lotro and have done since launch. I am not sure what your point is in comparing the 2 games. The only similarities are open world (and even then DA:I is nothing compared to the vastness of terrain in Lotro) and there being a handful of fetch quests. Hardly the same grind is it.

 

If the point you are making is that DA:I is nothing like an MMO, you could have done that without using Lotro to compare.

 

BTW, you checking out Winterstock at the weekend?

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I play Lotro and have done since launch. I am not sure what your point is in comparing the 2 games. The only similarities are open world (and even then DA:I is nothing compared to the vastness of terrain in Lotro) and there being a handful of fetch quests. Hardly the same grind is it.

 

If the point you are making is that DA:I is nothing like an MMO, you could have done that without using Lotro to compare.

 

BTW, you checking out Winterstock at the weekend?

 

Well I've stated in my review that a lot of visuals were borrowed from Lotro to DA world, even non-iconical stuffs as horned giants (Earth-kin) as Qunari, dwarven sculpure, Flaming Deeps = Deep Roads and so on. And the DA:I MP is a lot like offensive skirmishes, from general map design to the Control Point mechanics. It's so alike that sometimes it even feels the same (as I mostly play DA:I archer/LotRO hunter).

 

But the overall point was to show that DA:I is not a Dragon Age game MMOficated, it's just a poorly designed one.

 

Oh and I don't. Shame, but I don't have much time for simple fun. It's work calling.

[Ezkiel]

Well you did well to explain why stuff that works in mmo fails when it comes to single player games. But most people that add this MMOfication word to DAI is because mmos tend to have lot of uninteresting repetitive filler content, like you said its more important where your path leads to then how you got there thus variety(not that is great one quest/mob/pvp arena grind).

 

And yeah i did play fair share of MMOs and what i noticed is that many (newer ones at least) tend to have one main quest in which you often learn about actual game lore and is like game main story plus lot of those other filter content quests that you don't even bother reading, see patent there ?

 

Obviously its flawed design choice but easier one to do then to actually bother scripting quests or commit someone into writing content that will equal main quest one with quality (as even that felt rushed especially the ending tbh)

 

Also i'll just add that feedback is probably not that much important for SP, well to point that players will actually see direct effect of it in game with patches (i'm not talking about bug fixing and stuff) as time is money and if you don't make money why would you waste time.

 

Maybe some changes do happen with later DLCs or some other Dragon age game

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Well you did well to explain why stuff that works in mmo fails when it comes to single player games. But most people that add this MMOfication word to DAI is because mmos tend to have lot of uninteresting repetitive filler content, like you said its more important where your path leads to then how you got there thus variety(not that is great one quest/mob/pvp arena grind).

 

And yeah i did play fair share of MMOs and what i noticed is that many (newer ones at least) tend to have one main quest in which you often learn about actual game lore and is like game main story plus lot of those other filter content quests that you don't even bother reading, see patent there ?

 

Obviously its flawed design choice but easier one to do then to actually bother scripting quests or commit someone into writing content that will equal main quest one with quality (as even that felt rushed especially the ending tbh)

 

Also i'll just add that feedback is probably not that much important for SP, well to point that players will actually see direct effect of it in game with patches (i'm not talking about bug fixing and stuff) as time is money and if you don't make money why would you waste time.

 

Maybe some changes do happen with later DLCs or some other Dragon age game

 

Well nothing is evil in means of game design if it is done WELL.

Even filler quests can contribute into lore immersion if those are done well. If the theme of the fillers is somehow making your experience with the lore better.

 

Look at Shire LotRO part. It's mostly fillers.

But those fillers are like bake some pies that hobbits want, deliver mail to the distant farms, bravely defend the settlement against just a few wolves and such. It really IS hobbitses daily life, it is immersive. Hobbit culture is very specific and even the fillers contribute to user understanding of it.

 

On the DA: I side those fillers are way too generic. Even taking back the fortress in Imprez Luion (or something like that), purely Orlais location, doesn't feel any Orlais. It's generic quest to capture a hold with NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING specific in it. These events could take place anywhere in Thedas and you won't even see a difference.

 

Hope I made myself clear in this.

[atlantico]

Good points OP, I'll grant you that DA:I isn't MMOified, rather just poorly designed in many places. Not all, it is a game of highs and lows. Poorly as in both badly (UI comes to mind) and poorly as in "without much money" as in painfully few armorsets and weapon designs. And the designs range from "meh" to WTF is that?

[b10d1v]

Trev -I think you hit it on the head much earlier.  Bioware seems to lack a task master with the "big picture" to reign folks in with DAI and ask the hard questions.  Admittedly, finding folks good at this is a challenge -herding cats.  I also believe BIoware expected the frostbite development system to help pull DAI together and that is not without merit, but it seemed to drive them apart.  The learning curve issues aside, the compartmental approach seemed a negative impact on productivity - you see a lot of right hand not knowing the left issues.

[b10d1v]

Also a lot of the MMO likeness is kneejerk updates to fix little things here and there that are common with MMOs.  With an MMO the internet is a BIG factor on game performance, so open betas are common and frustrating; should not be that way for a single player game.  

[b10d1v]

Well Mark had to do something, their posts on Bioware and twitter skyrocketed and much of it was not very nice -after I called down from the initial frustration, many others and I sent a message requesting that Bioware get in front of these issues and be proactive - they did!  That said, many of the issues on Mark's post are still outstanding, then there was the Frostbite debacle that made news - I threw up my hand's up at this schizophrenic behavior, "Get your act together and stop shooting yourself in the foot!" 

[b10d1v]

 Well a great many folks have already taken the uninstall and wait until it gets fixed approach.  

 

So true about the nobler selves, granted some of the folks at bioware are very committed and reasonably responsive, proactively sharing ideas on occasion. The schizophrenic management is another story -difficult to understand.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

 Well a great many folks have already taken the uninstall and wait until it gets fixed approach.  

 

So true about the nobler selves, granted some of the folks at bioware are very committed and reasonably responsive, proactively sharing ideas on occasion. The schizophrenic management is another story -difficult to understand.

Please could you give me some links with all that activity? I'm new to Twitter so I can't find it :/ I don't know where to look!

[StrangeStrategy]

Booo! Booo you!

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Booo! Booo you!

 

Not scared, even a little.

[b10d1v]

Please could you give me some links with all that activity? I'm new to Twitter so I can't find it :/ I don't know where to look!

On this its just people I tried to help and in some cases they gave up.  I have a few from PS4 and xbox, but there has to be a better statistic.  There is very little I can do if the game will not even start.  I was often surprised they would even try bioware forums - had to be media issues or corrupt downloads, as similar platforms were working. 

[b10d1v]

PC people that have thrown in the towel is a much larger group, perhaps a dozen have actually sent me notes.  I thought the last guy was going to have a heart attack, seems the missing NPC extends to Leliana in the very beginning where she is supposed to grab you and tell you of Sister G. -Poor guy was clueless and very agitated. That one falls in the mystery section, as I know of nothing that should flag leliana to cause a problem.  The temporal bug might as it screws up event timing and some when and where issues.

 

The newest bug for me is in the first sequence after the character creator when you should escape the spiders and grab the Divine's hand - evidently I missed 3 times! Got left in the fade with no way out- it should be JokeOTY as GOTY is nonsense.

[b10d1v]

Someone did a post on Bioware forum activity statistics from June to November I think it was a few thousand hits/comments per day in June-August and generally positive to a few million hits/comments per day at launch and not so friendly, traffic was so heavy that the site was unstable after launch.  Had to be one of the Bioware employees who else has access?  Some of the activity in July was modders helping with modeling and a lot of material was passed - I contacted a few animators myself.  

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I agree that it's silly when people claim that DA:I is an MMO.