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[Hair Serious Business]

I just hate how this game is just forcing religion upon you(nothing against any religion I just hate it being forced in game so much).It is huge pain in a$$ especially since you play game to get away from real life a little then you find out same agenda about religion in one of the games that is forced upon you.Know which part I loved most when I played Skyrim? Because I realized that I didn't had to deal with Deadric Princes any more like in Oblivion or Morrowing in which where it was forced upon me(like Maker and possible Mythal is again forced upon you liked or not).I would just prefer if this game was kept focusing on giving you real RPG fantasy adventure of dragons,dungeons,love and etc. whatever but if any "Religion" stuff was not forced upon you as in DA:I it is.This is part I hated most about this game :Herald of Andraste (never claimed to be one but hell no one bothers with what I'm saying they still call me such and once again whatever I do people go "Blessed be Andraste" I mean hello I just saved your a$$ your Andraste has done nothing except being dead and if you are praising "Andraste" for my mark then please go praise Corypheus and thank him on that because Andraste had nothing to do with this mark),Servant of Mythal (just like with Andraste at least Mythal makes clear that everything you do is for her and that you are just lowly pawn 'just like Deadras from ES once again'.Still agenda of yet another "God" is forced in this game upon you and it doesn't matter if you or Morrigan drink well it is still forced in game and once again everything goes about Mythal like it goes with Andraste and blah blah I hate it!),Dread Wolf (hooooooraaay ._. as if this game already wasn't forcing religion enough upon you now we have one more so called God right in front of your that you are once again forced to deal with....hoooooraaaay so is there any "God" next forced upon us or are these all?)

Seriously I hope DA 4 will have 0% do with any God because I'm sick of these already and I had it enough for lifetime.

[Marshal Moriarty]

Another badly executed quest. Solas states that he believes the Well must be preserved but that he doesn't want Morrigan to do it. But then he flatly refuses you when you ask him to do it - without any explanation why and despite him clearly being the most qualified, regardless of what Morrigan claims. Nobody thinks this reaction odd, considering he makes out like you have suggested something obscene and insulting to him, to the point where he will take genuine offence if you ask again. Its ridiculous, as is the fact that despite being Elven and interested in history, he apparently can only translate certain bits and pieces of the writings, and never mentions any of the stuff that Morrigan claims to have read and left out.

 

You could have destroyed the Well, or at least let Abelas do it - it is even stated that the Well is powering the Eluvian, or rather that its the key to operating it. So you've solving both problems at once. Corypheus arriving is no issue - the scene takes place right before the final showdown when your party is easily a match for him. His army is losing badly because his forces have been so depleted, and your yours have swelled to immense size. Your advisors are brimming with confidence before this mission, because the tide has so heavily turned in your favour.

 

People will always make the 'The Ends justify the means' argument, but the game doesn't support there being any such need at this point. You have beaten Corypheus  this adventure to the Wilds has cost him the last of his forces, and if he hung around the Dragon would likely be slain (you do have all your forces here after all), leaving him vulnerable even if your characters are unaware of that. With the Venatori quitting the field and Grey Wardens lost to him, he is running short of (what are effectively) respawn points in the region. There is simply no need to accept Morrigan's outrageously suspicious arguments and accept this 'But thou Must; logic for an artifact you know nothing about and which you didn't even know existed half an hour ago.

 

Not to mention the less than commendable work ethic of Abelas and his men, who eternally guard the well... until someone powerful is nearly at the thing, when he just says 'Forget this, I'm off to Vegas - you handle the well, person I've just met'..

[Anaeme]

I loved the Herald of Andraste part of the game. 

 

The truth of the matter is that Faith is a part of life like Hunger and Sex.  People believe in stuff whether you like it or not.

 

DAI does not force anything on you but tells you how things are in the world and how people are responding to hardships.

 

Any world where people do not believe anything is a fake and unbelievable world sorry

[Marshal Moriarty]

No, it just lets you becomes de facto head of a religion and someone who has enough influence to decide who *actually* becomes the head of that religion, despite never showing you demonstrate any piety or belief whatsoever, and allowing you to completely trash and denigrate that religion to the faces of believers, and have them just accept it. In a time when Blasphemy is an act punishable by death (even mentioning the opposing Chantries and displaying their symbols in each other's territories can get you the death sentence). Yet you can say whatever you like about the Maker, Andraste, faith etc and nobody gives a rip.. I don't think we need to look very far in the modern news to see that blasphemy against revered religious figures and ideals is... a somewhat sensitive topic.

 

Its pure wish fulfillment to have religion changed by dint of having someone raised to this level in extraordinary circumstance and then using that to try and change what the faith is and what it stands for, what its values and practices are.

 

David Gaider's solution to not allowing Gay Marriage and Gays in the Church::

Step 1: Become Jesus and have the power to stop terrorism.

 

Step 2: Recruit Stonewall and Outrage to your side, and make them an arm of the Church, dedicated to fighting ISIS.

 

Step 3: Use this power to gain influence and appoint Aileen Wuomos as Pope.

 

 

Problem solved. Acceptance in the church for gays. What an easy solution - why has nobody done it before?

 

 

Please let's not pretend the storyline in DA:I is anything like believable. Its allowing to enforce and encourage reform on a radical scale because you have magic powers that can save the world. Religious reform is a necessary and complex beast - it isn't as easy as waving a wand and changing things. You can't just say 'Oh, well I know we've believed *this* for centuries, but I think what Jesus was *trying* to say and *probably* meant was...'

 

Bioware need to stop with these overly simplified solutions to complex problems. For people who are ascribed such liberal views, their games sure do like to have a single, Nietzche esque Super Man come along and cut through all the bereaucratic (and democratic) red tape and determine what Morality is acceptable. Have some savior figure come and save us from our inaction and then be showered with accolades for their Might and Wisdom.

[KaiserShep]

I just hate how this game is just forcing religion upon you(nothing against any religion I just hate it being forced in game so much).It is huge pain in a$$ especially since you play game to get away from real life a little then you find out same agenda about religion in one of the games that is forced upon you.Know which part I loved most when I played Skyrim? Because I realized that I didn't had to deal with Deadric Princes any more like in Oblivion or Morrowing in which where it was forced upon me(like Maker and possible Mythal is again forced upon you liked or not).I would just prefer if this game was kept focusing on giving you real RPG fantasy adventure of dragons,dungeons,love and etc. whatever but if any "Religion" stuff was not forced upon you as in DA:I it is.This is part I hated most about this game :Herald of Andraste (never claimed to be one but hell no one bothers with what I'm saying they still call me such and once again whatever I do people go "Blessed be Andraste" I mean hello I just saved your a$$ your Andraste has done nothing except being dead and if you are praising "Andraste" for my mark then please go praise Corypheus and thank him on that because Andraste had nothing to do with this mark),Servant of Mythal (just like with Andraste at least Mythal makes clear that everything you do is for her and that you are just lowly pawn 'just like Deadras from ES once again'.Still agenda of yet another "God" is forced in this game upon you and it doesn't matter if you or Morrigan drink well it is still forced in game and once again everything goes about Mythal like it goes with Andraste and blah blah I hate it!),Dread Wolf (hooooooraaay ._. as if this game already wasn't forcing religion enough upon you now we have one more so called God right in front of your that you are once again forced to deal with....hoooooraaaay so is there any "God" next forced upon us or are these all?)
Seriously I hope DA 4 will have 0% do with any God because I'm sick of these already and I had it enough for lifetime.

I don't really give two spits about religions or gods or whatever, but I thought this aspect of it was well handled. If my Inquisitor had to believe all this crap, then I would've been annoyed, but being able to deny it all, even against the collective stubbornness of the faithful, was the most important part. People are going to believe what they will, and there's little that can be done about it, and I enjoy that the game reflects this. And really, in a universe where there's an actual realm of dreams/spirits/demons and such, it's not exactly incongruous to the setting.

[Hair Serious Business]

I think you missed whole point of what I was saying.

I said you are forced to deal with so called Gods,like or no!

You are forced with being "Herald of Andraste" like it or no,you are forced with dealing with Mythal one way of the other,you are forced dealing with Solas...you are forced in every aspect when it comes to DA:I's religion and that is what I dislike.Irl religion is optional you can or you don't have to believe in it your own choice no one will force you to have to do with anything regarding religion,in DA:I you are forced with dealing with so called religions and you don't have any real say on this matter,you are just dragged in that event and forced!

If you played Oblivion and Morrowind then you recall being forced with whole Azura and Sheogorath crap in which you are forced to serve them despite you not wanting to anything with any of them...and that is why Skyrim was such huge refresh,Deadras were optional thing and you were not forced to worship them,Talos or any other God if you didn't want to.It was totally optional.In here both DAO and DA2 never involved religion in their main plot and that was amazing in here "religion plot" of DA is forced upon you! Religion is no longer optional in here in any way it is just forced on you and no one is asking you anything how are you feeling about it or they don't care how do you like it(there is already theory of how Inquisitor even got possessed with spirit of Faith in Fade which would be way too much if it proves correct).

This is one of the biggest reasons why I wish that well could be destroyed because at least in this way at least when it comes to Mythal you could have dealing with her optional as well and it wouldn't be so forced upon you in this matter.

[Hair Serious Business]

I don't really give two spits about religions or gods or whatever, but I thought this aspect of it was well handled. If my Inquisitor had to believe all this crap, then I would've been annoyed, but being able to deny it all, even against the collective stubbornness of the faithful, was the most important part. People are going to believe what they will, and there's little that can be done about it, and I enjoy that the game reflects this. And really, in a universe where there's an actual realm of dreams/spirits/demons and such, it's not exactly incongruous to the setting.

Still I liked more when DA was more on focused on thing such as "Deal with Bligth and kill Archdemon" or "Deal with red lyrium that is driving people insane" then "Deal with Andraste and your faith and also deal with so called elven Gods in process"...because this last plot $ucks!

[Marshal Moriarty]

But you are profiting directly from lying to the faithful (even if you tell your advisors not to, they say they won't and then still do it!) If you;re the kind of character who doesn't mind this, then that;s fine - you can play your character that way... at least until you get found out and burnt at the stake anyway.

 

But for people who have a problem with that, the game gives very opportunities to voice that opinion, never lets your character demonstrate any particular faith or religious observance even if you do want to, and then even if you don't get involved yourself, has the next Divine drawn from your organization to continue having the backing of the head of the chantry - when you and your beliefs for the organization can be completely anti-chantry.

 

Its just a constant round of you running Skyhold saying 'Hey, check out all this cool stuff and all these troops that the faithful are bankrolling us for. Oh... just a minute, let me grab my microphone. Dagna's got the live magic feed up and running I'm on any minute...

 

'Heeeey folks, welcome to the Inquisition Herald of Andraste Hour of Power. I'm feeling all your love right now, and I need to channel that along with your donations to beat that faithless Corypheus! Are you we with me? I said Are you with me?! Can I get a 'Haiiiiiil Andrasteeeee!'

[Hair Serious Business]

But you are profiting directly from lying to the faithful (even if you tell your advisors not to, they say they won't and then still do it!) If you;re the kind of character who doesn't mind this, then that;s fine - you can play your character that way... at least until you get found out and burnt at the stake anyway.

 

But for people who have a problem with that, the game gives very opportunities to voice that opinion, never lets your character demonstrate any particular faith or religious observance even if you do want to, and then even if you don't get involved yourself, has the next Divine drawn from your organization to continue having the backing of the head of the chantry - when you and your beliefs for the organization can be completely anti-chantry.

 

Its just a constant round of you running Skyhold saying 'Hey, check out all this cool stuff and all these troops that the faithful are bankrolling us for. Oh... just a minute, let me grab my microphone. Dagna's got the live magic feed up and running I'm on any minute...

 

'Heeeey folks, welcome to the Inquisition Herald of Andraste Hour of Power. I'm feeling all your love right now, and I need to channel that along with your donations to beat that faithless Corypheus! Are you we with me? I said Are you with me?! Can I get a 'Haiiiiiil Andrasteeeee!'

Still forced to dealing with religion!

You didn't had to be faithful to Azura in Morrowind but you still was forced to deal with her even though you just used her name for your own profit.In here it doesn't matter for what you use your "Herald Of Andraste" title of Mythal's power or Solas "help"...you are still one way or the other forced to deal with them ._.

[In Exile]

Honestly I'm more worried about what Morrigan will do to the IQ who denied her the Well once she gets Mythal's soul.

Be really grateful she wasn't Mythal's slave by accident rather than choice?

[Hair Serious Business]

Be really grateful she wasn't Mythal's slave by accident rather than choice?

Yup she herself later thanks you for drinking instead of her once she discovers who is Mythal xD

[Anaeme]

There is another way to look at the whole issue.

 

The reason people worship you (which I enjoyed by the way) is because you have a mark on your hand and you are using that mark to close rifts.

 

You are the only one that has that mark in the world.

 

If this were a real life situation you cannot control the number of people that will be worshipping you or thinking you were sent to save them.

 

The only way you get away from religious impacts is if you amputate your hand completely and hide it

[Hazegurl]

My IQ drinks it.

 

-He was already being lead around the balls by "Andraste", might as well give another "God" a turn.

-It's probably the most exciting thing he's done since this venture started

-He's a mage and is sort of obsessed with knowledge so this was too tempting to pass up

-The possibility of living forever is tempting

-Wanted to "na na boo boo" Morrigan

-Didn't want to be stuck at the wishes and whim of Morrigan.

 

After finding out it was Flemeth:

 

-Regrets nothing.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

But why u no wish to be "Herald of Andraste" GTS! ? She was amazing person at her time :

[Shahadem]

You are really in a no win situation with this.    Solas won't drink from the well, he says as much.   If you press the point I'm sure he would outright refuse to do it.   As an elf I wanted to drink from the well but since Solas didn't want to, even though he didn't directly tell me not to, I thought it was likely a bad idea.    Morrigan wants to drink but I really didn't think she should.   However, Solas says someone ought to and I'm pretty sure that both he and Morrigan would stop you from destroying the well even if that was an option.  It's a sort of Catch 22.  I was pretty miffed when I let Morrigan and she's boasting back at Skyhold about all this stuff she now understands.   Then we met Mythal and I suddenly wasn't sorry at all that I let her drink instead of me.   I think that was what you call poetic justice.

 

He also says that above all Morrigan shouldn't drink, implying that you should be the one to drink. But why not get someone else to do it who isn't Morrigan or you? For example I'd imagine Viv would be just itching at her strings to do it, Blackwall would do it, maybe Cole. Cassandra really should have offered to do it because she should outright refuse to allow Morrigan to do it. The entire quest was utter trash. You shouldn't have run from Cory, you didn't help killing all 16 of the red lyrium templars, it is unclear how the red templars even made it past the security when you were hot on their heels and could have used magic to stop them in their tracks but didn't for no reason at all other than heavy handed story telling. And then the Well of Sorrows concept doesn't work within the DA universe. It combines Harry Potter magic with Irish folklore magic and in no way is possible using Dragon Age magic which is actually the only one that matters. Ultimate fail.

[Little Mama]

But why u no wish to be "Herald of Andraste" GTS! ? She was amazing person at her time :

 

 

ROFL 

[Pincey]

But why u no wish to be "Herald of Andraste" GTS! ? She was amazing person at her time :

 

too funny, love this

Modifié par Pincey, 18 janvier 2015 - 11:17 .

[Marshal Moriarty]

How about pouring it into a set of gourds and using it like a version of the magic potion from Asterix?

 

Corypheus: Its you lot again, by Juno!

 

Inquisitor: Just a minute... (Drinks Potion) Right then, by Toutatis, let;s fight.

 

PAF! (Corypheus is uppercutted out of his sandals).

 

Iron Bull: I don't see why I couldn't have any potion, just because I fell in the well...