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Just thought of this.... Where is our whorehouses!?!?!?!


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#176
papercut_ninja

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I often use the simile of an onion for evaluating stories. Like an onion, a story has several layers. Take a children's book, for example. There's always the surface layer, the prima-facie-story that the small kids understand while you read the book to them. Then there's often a morale layer, something that the kids understand after spending some time thinking about the story. And there is also, very often, an adult layer that includes stuff, such as allegories, that no kid at the target group's age will understand, but the parents will. And so on.

 

If brothels are indeed just "donut shops", then either the writer did a terrible job for failing to engage on multiple layers, or the consumer did, for failing to recognise anything but the top surface layer

 

I prefer pastries, they have layers too!

 

Here´s the thing...you could certainly make the setting interesting, and make it play a crucial part in the story in such a way that you couldn't just tell the same story in a bakery or something. You could put the protagonist in the situation of catching one of their beloved companions in a drunken stupor, having seriously messed up a sex worker...blood, crushed bones and all sorts of grisly details included. Now the protagonist is faced with a truly challenging situation. Do you cover it up to protect the reputation? Do you offer compensation? Do you punish the offender? Beside that, the protagonist learns about a different, unflattering side of their companion, something which challenges their trust in the people closest to them. With the added important social lessons: 1) that abusive people aren't just typical bad guys that you can easily spot, even the most likable person can have a deeply disturbing side. 2) that sex workers face dangers and have very little protection and often no safety net to help them when something goes wrong. Such a story would have far reaching effects on the protagonist and their entire story, while portraying some of the ugly reality of prostitution and trafficking, and if I may offer some biased critique of my own storytelling, it would be dark and gritty.

 

But people here have clearly claimed that they don't want real world drama in their games, they don't want a story which pokes them with social politics. They want the bakery, where the sex worker is a bagel on a menu that can offer some comic relief or adult imagery. And this is how brothels and sex workers have largely been portrayed across many, many games (because...you know, give customers what they expect), including the previous two titles in the DA series. Where´s this onion you talk about? There was never any onion, so why does it bother you that it´s no longer there?


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#177
Terodil

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Well, I think I'd also rather go for pastries with layers than a raw onion, except I'm not really aware of any great ones. Except maybe stuff like tarts. Mmmmh tarts. The edible ones >.>

 

I really appreciated your plot idea. If you had just left it there, in all its glory, with everybody to draw their own conclusions, you'd have garnered full applause from me. Sadly, such interesting ideas are often tarnished by their authors trying to ram their moral index up their readers'/players'/consumers' noses, which defeats the entire purpose of inviting people to feel, think, and derive the conclusions/lessons themselves. I don't think it's that people don't want drama -- they don't want lessons. (Maybe I'm just speaking for myself again, I just hate proselytising.)

 

Plus, pastries usually have the property that they are sweet. What you are proposing is very, very bitter. Maybe the onion IS the better simile, because onions can add that little contrast that is important, IMO. They can be sweet in an otherwise spicy dish, or they can be hot in an otherwise mild dish. Everybody puking rainbows into gold buckets is not going to be very interesting after a while, but neither is a constant barrage by Brecht-class depression dreadnoughts.

 

P.S./Edit: But the whole discussion we're having, which I appreciate and find enriching, actually, is kinda moot if we don't have what we are talking about in the first place. That was the point I was trying to make in the beginning -- if you simply take out all the stuff that would invite discussion/debate/shitstorms, you'll end up with a bland potatosack as a game.



#178
papercut_ninja

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Well, I think I'd also rather go for pastries with layers than a raw onion, except I'm not really aware of any great ones. Except maybe stuff like tarts. Mmmmh tarts. The edible ones >.>

 

I really appreciated your plot idea. If you had just left it there, in all its glory, with everybody to draw their own conclusions, you'd have garnered full applause from me. Sadly, such interesting ideas are often tarnished by their authors trying to ram their moral index up their readers'/players'/consumers' noses, which defeats the entire purpose of inviting people to feel, think, and derive the conclusions/lessons themselves. I don't think it's that people don't want drama -- they don't want lessons. (Maybe I'm just speaking for myself again, I just hate proselytising.)

 

Plus, pastries usually have the property that they are sweet. What you are proposing is very, very bitter. Maybe the onion IS the better simile, because onions can add that little contrast that is important, IMO. They can be sweet in an otherwise spicy dish, or they can be hot in an otherwise mild dish. Everybody puking rainbows into gold buckets is not going to be very interesting after a while, but neither is a constant barrage by Brecht-class depression dreadnoughts.

 

Well if you want to, I can come up with a brighter plot too...

 

You could have a protagonist and an escort developing a close bond. Socially interacting more than just having sex (which is the more common way that clients and escorts interact)...but you know there are consquences and implications to such a bond...I won't ram them up your nose this time for you to draw your own conclusions...

 

The problem with that is...again...would it satisfy people? Or would we have the forums filled with complaints that "I don't want to talk to the f***** **ore, I want to bang them..."


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#179
Terodil

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The problem with that is...again...would it satisfy people? Or would we have the forums filled with complaints that "I don't want to talk to the f***** **ore, I want to bang them..."

 

The answer to that question depends on the strength of one's faith in humanity. I can honestly only answer for myself -- I'd love such a plot. I'd be somewhat apprehensive to put the question to a poll though.

 

But again, we'll never know if we don't get the opportunity to experience it.

 

Edit: I just thought of Isabela, whose character and plot would have some overlap with your suggestion #2. From my vague feeling (= I have no stats or proof) I seem to remember that a lot more people took offense to her presence and character in general ('omg ****', 'omg misogynistic', 'omg why does she dress so sexy' etc.) than who actually took the time to look at how brilliantly her character was written, i.e. to look at the layers under the surface. I personally think that Isabela was the perfect onion: There was humour, there was heartbreak, there was tension, there was betrayal, there was reconciliation and redemption. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Isabela's character.



#180
Guest_Donkson_*

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I'm also pro-Isabela (despite my firm beliefs in loyalty in relationships, etc) :lol:

 

Sarcastic Hawke and Isabela had an excellent bond, a bond that I am envious of. Duelling the Arishok to save her bacon was probably one of the greatest romantic moments I've ever experienced in a BioWare game. That's what I missed in DA:I; I romanced Sera and everything was fine and dandy, save for a moment where she freaks out but I would have liked to have some sort of major conflict that made or broke the relationship, and to prove my honour and love for her with my sword.

 

I know you can have this with Josie but I don't do politicians so.... ;)

 

But anyway, at first glance Isabela seems like this clichéd sl*t but there is so much more to her... this is simply what she wants people to think because she doesn't trust anybody but I think from the moment Hawke sleeps with her she's taken with him/her, but just doesn't want to admit it. Otherwise, why else would she come back with the relic? "This is your influence, Hawke."

 

I don't mind an aesthetically pleasing, seemingly clichéd character just so long as there's more to it.


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#181
TheOgre

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Well if you want to, I can come up with a brighter plot too...

 

You could have a protagonist and an escort developing a close bond. Socially interacting more than just having sex (which is the more common way that clients and escorts interact)...but you know there are consquences and implications to such a bond...I won't ram them up your nose this time for you to draw your own conclusions...

 

The problem with that is...again...would it satisfy people? Or would we have the forums filled with complaints that "I don't want to talk to the f***** **ore, I want to bang them..."

 

Side character or main character, with actual option to romance? Ingenious, and I'm not being sarcastic. But I suspect you are correct.. when people would come to the forums to complain about that :/



#182
Waukeen25

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i believe in the same place where all desire demons went.

 

well perhaps room of the Inquisitor may be considered as fetish club or bdsm dungeon.

 

I would happily pay money for that DLC.  Whips, chains, insertion tool, extraction tool, a couple of nugs thrown in for fun.  Yep sold on that one, and I am not being sarcastic here, I really would pay for this DLC.

 

No whorehouses and desire demons!!!

 

I concur, this is a major and very important flaw within the game...

 

Bears being harder to beat than main boss? Also fine.

 

If I didn't enjoy the "funny" of BW games so much, you twits would def lose me as a customer.

 

How come no one ever mentions Druffy when it comes to tough animal mobs in the game?  That bloody animal beat the snot out of me because I saw it, attacked it and got trampled into paste because I never though to look at the level of the mob.  Reminded me of the closed beta for ESO when I see a bunny rabbit and attack it for kicks only to have it come at me and murder me with its sharp teeth.  Level 99 rabbits....

 

As for the loss of a customer I will link you to a post I made in another thread, http://forum.bioware...2#entry18353656.  They already did with all the crap thats been happening the last several games they have put out.

 

And lastly I will leave you by yet another hit by Dire Straits in reply to the whorehouses being absent:

 

I want my, I want my, I want my cheap whorehouse.



#183
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Oh yeah, druffys are pretty hardcore. My first druffy at Haven while doing my first ever fetch quest... not so much. Thing just stood there while I gave it to him. :lol:

 

In a sense, BioWare could be compared to a whorehouse... the problem is, we're paying for an elite service but all we're getting is trashy hag.....


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#184
Waukeen25

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In a sense, BioWare could be compared to a whorehouse... the problem is, we're paying for an elite service but all we're getting is trashy hag.....

 

I doubt we are even getting that HB and I can tell you for sure even if we are getting that we sure as heck aren't getting a reach around.  Shame to because you would think $75 would get you something DECENT.



#185
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Well... like the good old DA:2 whorehouse, we're getting the equivalent to...

 

"Pay 20 silvers and someone pretends to like you for an hour."

 

Or in our case, "Pay top dollar and BW won't even pretend to care about you." :D


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#186
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Oh, and I'm Aussie so I payed $110. :lol:



#187
Waukeen25

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Oh, and I'm Aussie so I payed $110. :lol:

 

Not gonna like this post because EAWare might misunderstand and the next game will have a price tag of $110 for everyone with each DLC costing $50.



#188
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LOL.

 

They only pay attention when it suits them ;)



#189
atlantico

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LOL.

 

They only pay attention when it suits them ;)

Having worked for greedy, soulless bastards in the past, yes that sounds about right ;)

 

(even then they'll try to interpret what they're hearing to something more pleasing to their sad little brains)


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#190
papercut_ninja

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Side character or main character, with actual option to romance? Ingenious, and I'm not being sarcastic. But I suspect you are correct.. when people would come to the forums to complain about that :/

 

Well, I don't know about ingenious, it's pretty much plagiarizing George R.R Martin...but thanks anyway darling!



#191
Madrict

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Bring back sexy female Desire Demons please!!!



#192
papercut_ninja

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Oh yeah, druffys are pretty hardcore. My first druffy at Haven while doing my first ever fetch quest... not so much. Thing just stood there while I gave it to him. :lol:

 

In a sense, BioWare could be compared to a whorehouse... the problem is, we're paying for an elite service but all we're getting is trashy hag.....

 

Or in another sense...Bioware made you their b*****...I refer you to my very first comment on this subject, but I suspect that was a little too subtle that people didn't get it...



#193
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I probably read it, but my memory is poor. Plus, I'm too lazy to go back and reread it. :lol:

 

Yes, they have made me their b*tch. Because despite all of these f*ck ups I still enjoy their games. I even liked Inquisition.. maybe not as much as the previous two, but it isn't so horrid that I can't play it otherwise I wouldn't be on the BSN discussing it with other people, and definitely not the type with very little else to live for so come on here to troll. :lol:



#194
DragonKill83

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"When you're the leader of the Inquisition, the entirety of Thedas is your whorehouse."  ---me

 

Uhh, on second thought.....  :lol:



#195
C0uncil0rTev0s

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"When you're the leader of the Inquisition, the entirety of Thedas is your whorehouse."  ---me

 

Uhh, on second thought.....  :lol:

When you're the leader of the Inquisition you're everybody else but the Head of the Inquisition.

You're a miner, a herbalist, dumb puzzle solver and occasionally kindergarten teacher when it comes to battling someone.



#196
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LOL.

 

When you're Inquisitor... you're basically like EDI; a robot.

 

Except EDI actually has a personality.


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#197
C0uncil0rTev0s

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LOL.

 

When you're Inquisitor... you're basically like EDI; a robot.

 

Except EDI actually has a personality.

And EDI has an awesome VO actress (Tricia Helfer iirc)


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#198
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Oh man. Sumalee as a VA for female Inquisitor. *CRINGE*

 

I want to kill myself, especially when she tries to pull the moves.



#199
Ashen Nedra

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Oh yeah, druffys are pretty hardcore. My first druffy at Haven while doing my first ever fetch quest... not so much. Thing just stood there while I gave it to him. :lol:

 

In a sense, BioWare could be compared to a whorehouse... the problem is, we're paying for an elite service but all we're getting is trashy hag.....

like



#200
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What I don't get is...

 

Sure, without all of the flaws it's a good game. But how can a game that can't even work properly, get GOTY? :blink: