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[EmissaryofLies]

This thread.

You can roleplay being evil by picking certain options while using headcanon to justify them.

Or is that not good enough and everything needs to be explicit? I thought game-imposed limits are anti-RP. Pick a side already.

Pardon BioWare for not allowing you to be a mustache-twirling psychotic murderer while leading an organization whose entire purpose is to fix the world.

 

 

They did it in Origins.

 

I get why they threw the shackles on this time around, but it's still awful and limiting.

[Lebanese Dude]

They did it in Origins.

I get why they threw the shackles on this time around but it's still awful and limiting.

And you can in DAI, except in much larger scope.

Killing elves in DA? Murder all Wardens in Adamant then exile the rest. Bonus points if Architect dead.

Kill that annoying merchant? Kill that bratty Hinterlands elf or Seras puffy noble.

Grey Wardens annoying you? send them on suicide missions via war table.

Point being the scope of the game has increased. While the Warden threatened to kill random peasants, the Inquisitor can kill plenty more directly or indirectly.

You can get the goddamn Empress of Orlais killed. Need I say more?

[Hazegurl]

Cullen left the Templar Order because he didn't want to massacre mages in the name of religion. Whether or not he's an addict won't change that part of him.

Blackmail Josie with *what* exactly? I mean sure you can invent some power fantasy here but who will be your enable? Her friend Leliana? You're kidding yourself.

The IB is quite clearly not pro-massacre. He turned himself over for reeducation because he couldn't handle the violence in Seheron.

You could certainly fantasize about killing Sera but she'd oppose you - you're everything she hates about nobility.

Leliana is the BIGGEST reformer of the Chantry. She wants to abolish the Circles and include the elves into the priesthood. A ruthless Leliana would be your absolute greatest nemesis. Your very agenda is an offence to everything she holds dear.

It goes on. None of these characters would support hard line religious bigotry. I suppose you could lament the lack of "Torture is actually great!!!!" situations from ME but IMO that's not really evil.

Does Cullen become more anti Mage again if made to take Lyrium? Mind you I've never done it, I can only go on what I've heard. Either way. The Inquisition can be in the position of controlling his lyrium supply. He isn't going anywhere.

 

Didn't Josie have a a gang of assassins after her AND is stuggling to make ends meet and take care of her decaying noble house. No power fantasy is needed to take advantage of her.

 

IB will do as he's told. Before the Chargers are killed because he has a job to do. So no he won't be a problem. If you keep the Chargers alive, he'll probably be an issue then. In which case he can leave. If the Chargers are killed, he's still apart of the Qun and will not leave until Cory is gone.

 

You mean the same Leliana you can harden and will be planning Exalted marches before she's even made Divine. Hardly.

 

But keep on trying to claim that all the characters in this game are morally good people and how the game would never work with a ethically questional IQ. And mind you I'm not arguing the religious percecution scenario completely, but the very idea that having an IQ that is anything other than a good and noble person would never work because, as you claim, the game could never work like that. My opinion is that the game could work if we were given the options.

 

**As for Cass. I don't see her as a major reformer. I can easily see how her reforms will eventually end up with everything going back to business as usual. And I can see her approving of favorable Andrastian options that are more pragmatic. Whether it's percecuting another group, depending on the choice, would be debatable. (i.e Conscripting Mages)

[TevinterSupremacist]

It seems like Bioware is interested making roleplaying games when they create a plot that doesn't require the rest of the party to violate their own moral ethos by allowing you to continue to exist. 

Oh for crying out loud, you have said this a million times in different threads. Letting you murderknife like in DA:O or do even more selfish-power hungry actions wouldn't violate their moral code, at all.

Simple. They tolerate the warden's murdering people around for his benefit because their moral code values "everyone not getting eaten by archdemon" higher than "a few people got murdered for selfish reasons". That's it. Hard truth, your companions are adults, they swallow it and move on. Killing you for your actions would result in worse things than the ones you do. Leaving you and not helping you with the archedmon would have the same problem. Only doing something monumentally extreme and personal to the companions, not just murdering people they never met, should result in them turning on you and not just disapproving. They don't live in a disney story, they should be able to view past their disapproval to the end goal they themselves value more.

 

And just like that happened with the warden who was ferelden's only hope against archedemon, since non-fereldern wardens weren't around, it could have happened with the inquisitor who was the only one who could seal rifts.

 

We can discuss why bioware chose not to have evil pc choices and if we like that or not, but saying that allowing for evil choices nullifies companions' personalities, unless they turn on you is just plain wrong.

[Ziegrif]

I think it's more about being incompetent than evil this time around.

[Father_Jerusalem]

I'm fine with putting in evil options in the game, as long as you get a different ending too:

 

"Hurrah, you've saved the world Inquisitor! Go up to your quarters and rest!"

"Yes. I shall. Moo hoo ha ha. I'm so evil. Go team evil. Yay me. Evil evil evil." *falls asleep*

 

*gets shanked in your sleep by Leliana who is sick of your **** and has, in fact, been keeping a tally of all the evil you've pulled throughout the game and was just waiting for a moment when the Inquisition no longer needed the anchor on your hand to save the day*

 

*you are hereby barred from playing any DLCs or expansions with this character. if DA4 continues the Inquisitor's story, you are hereby barred from playing that game too with this character too. you are also hereby barred from whining about these consequences on the internet. have a nice day.*

[javeart]

No no, I get what you're at, but I can disagree, no?

 Of course, I never meant otherwise, I was starting to worry that it looked like I did 

 

 

 

But why are we restricted to three in the first place?

 

I assumed it's simply a matter of resources and thinking of ME3, I'm almost happy they didn't leave it in two :lol:But, of course, I'd LOVE it if we could get more options and, in fact, I'm quite happy about all those perks that introduce more choices to the dialogues (arcane, noble, etc), I do find them very useful to roleplay more precisely my different Inquisitors

 

 

 

Filler quests, maybe?

 

Definitely! But sacrificing those would be easy   I'd be happy to make even bigger sacrifices... I'd not mind it, for instance, having fewer companions if that would allowed for having more varied and complex relationships with the ones left

[EmissaryofLies]

And you can in DAI, except in much larger scope.

Killing elves in DA? Murder all Wardens in Adamant then exile the rest. Bonus points if Architect dead.

Kill that annoying merchant? Kill that bratty Hinterlands elf or Seras puffy noble.

Grey Wardens annoying you? send them on suicide missions via war table.

Point being the scope of the game has increased. While the Warden threatened to kill random peasants, the Inquisitor can kill plenty more directly or indirectly.

You can get the goddamn Empress of Orlais killed. Need I say more?

 

A lot of those are muddled in grey if not outright completely neutral given the circumstances. The Wardens were binding each other to demons and were a bulk of Cory's force. Why would you trust them? That noble attacks you first and is a calculating cutthroat. The Winter Palace is purely political and there are more than enough reasons for removing the Empress who's hands are bloody herself.

 

The Warden sacrificing an entire Alienage that never wronged her to a Magister purely for power isn't as ambiguous. Nor is making a deal with a desire demon and condemning a child to becoming an abomination in order to gain Blood Magic. Nor is encountering a hunter, robbing him and leaving him to die, simply because you can. To name a few examples.

 

Ultimately, Inquisition tastes like diet soda.

[Hazegurl]

I'm fine with putting in evil options in the game, as long as you get a different ending too:

 

"Hurrah, you've saved the world Inquisitor! Go up to your quarters and rest!"

"Yes. I shall. Moo hoo ha ha. I'm so evil. Go team evil. Yay me. Evil evil evil." *falls asleep*

 

*gets shanked in your sleep by Leliana who is sick of your **** and has, in fact, been keeping a tally of all the evil you've pulled throughout the game and was just waiting for a moment when the Inquisition no longer needed the anchor on your hand to save the day*

 

*you are hereby barred from playing any DLCs or expansions with this character. if DA4 continues the Inquisitor's story, you are hereby barred from playing that game too with this character too. you are also hereby barred from whining about these consequences on the internet. have a nice day.*

LOL!

 

As long as there is another ending for the good choices.

 

"Hooray! You've saved the world Inquisitor, now go to your quarters and rest."

 

"Yes I shall! I'm so happy I was able to beat the big baddie and make all my decisions based on my own moral compass. I'm sure everyone would talk it out and the world will right itself."

 

Enters Leliana. Who has been keeping a tally of your incompetance that has deminished the power and influence of the organization. Now that the rifts are all done and you're no longer needed for that, it's time for your new role in service to the organization.

 

She cuts your throat. Now you are a true martyr for Andraste.

 

*And you're barred from all DLCs. They will now be played by the new leader of the Inquisition.*

[Ryzaki]

I'm fine with putting in evil options in the game, as long as you get a different ending too:

 

"Hurrah, you've saved the world Inquisitor! Go up to your quarters and rest!"

"Yes. I shall. Moo hoo ha ha. I'm so evil. Go team evil. Yay me. Evil evil evil." *falls asleep*

 

*gets shanked in your sleep by Leliana who is sick of your **** and has, in fact, been keeping a tally of all the evil you've pulled throughout the game and was just waiting for a moment when the Inquisition no longer needed the anchor on your hand to save the day*

 

*you are hereby barred from playing any DLCs or expansions with this character. if DA4 continues the Inquisitor's story, you are hereby barred from playing that game too with this character too. you are also hereby barred from whining about these consequences on the internet. have a nice day.*

 

Leliana shanking anyone for being evil is hilarious. Especially if she's hardened. She has more blood on her hands than Quizzy ever will.

[Sekondar]

Because it does not fit in their story. Let's not forget that you are playing their game; not the other way 'round. You will take what you are given and you will thank them for it, dammit!

Geeez. I'll take this in a not-too serious manner, yes?

[TevinterSupremacist]

Honestly, you're being forcibly dragged by the chantry gestapo into doing a mission or their sake, given all that power, have the possibility of being from an origin that includes having your life stripped from you by the chantry -human mage- and you don't get the chance to abuse that power for your selfish reasons and get some sort of revenge of the chantry?

 

Nah, nah, the inqusitor is sunday-morning-goodie-two shoes, all the choices you can make , even the more...''rough'' ones can fall perfectly in line with the mission appointed on you.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I'm fine with putting in evil options in the game, as long as you get a different ending too:

 

"Hurrah, you've saved the world Inquisitor! Go up to your quarters and rest!"

"Yes. I shall. Moo hoo ha ha. I'm so evil. Go team evil. Yay me. Evil evil evil." *falls asleep*

 

*gets shanked in your sleep by Leliana who is sick of your **** and has, in fact, been keeping a tally of all the evil you've pulled throughout the game and was just waiting for a moment when the Inquisition no longer needed the anchor on your hand to save the day*

 

*you are hereby barred from playing any DLCs or expansions with this character. if DA4 continues the Inquisitor's story, you are hereby barred from playing that game too with this character too. you are also hereby barred from whining about these consequences on the internet. have a nice day.*

 

I can smell your pettiness from there. A realistic evil quizzie would either have a chance to..uhm...dispose of leliana, or establish a power-base that would protect him from "railroaded cutscene deaths".

[ShadowLordXII]

A lot of those are muddled in grey if not outright completely neutral given the circumstances. The Wardens were binding each other to demons and were a bulk of Cory's force. Why would you trust them? That noble attacks you first and is a calculating cutthroat. The Winter Palace is purely political and there are more than enough reasons for removing the Empress who's hands are bloody herself.

 

The Warden sacrificing an entire Alienage that never wronged her to a Magister purely for power isn't as ambiguous. Nor is making a deal with a desire demon and condemning a child to becoming an abomination in order to gain Blood Magic. Nor is encountering a hunter, robbing him and leaving him to die, simply because you can. To name a few examples.

 

Ultimately, Inquisition tastes like diet soda.

 

There's also that time when the Warden found a wounded dalish and can rob the poor elf and then murder him.

 

Or leaving Sten to die in a prison when the Darkspawn aren't far from Lothering at all. (Sten isn't innocent, but that's just cruel. Execution is more humane than being left to starve or whatever the darkspawn would've done to him)

 

Or slaughtering the entire Mage Circle even after knowing that only a handful are actually using blood magic, summoning demons and rebelling.

 

Or killing a starving prisoner just to take a smuggled key when you could've just easily persuaded him or got him some food.

 

Or leaving a besieged village (Redcliffe) to die because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

 

Or letting Vaughen gang-rape your cousin, bride and bridesmaids for some gold even though you can't trust anything that he says. (Guess what? He sells you out to the guard anyway!)

 

Or letting Anora execute Alistair rather than toning down the punishment to exile. (The latter's still unfair, but at least Alistair gets to live as opposed to former where he's killed because of who his father is)

 

Or defiling the urn of sacred ashes and murdering companions because a crazy cultist gave you a vague promise concerning dragon's power.

 

I miss being evil too...

[Sekondar]

This thread.

You can roleplay being evil by picking certain options while using headcanon to justify them.

Or is that not good enough and everything needs to be explicit? I thought game-imposed limits are anti-RP. Pick a side already.

Pardon BioWare for not allowing you to be a mustache-twirling psychotic murderer while leading an organization whose entire purpose is to fix the world.

They stick to the more realistic and pragmatic version of evil which boils down to using people to achieve your own selfish ends while gaining the power that controls nations.

You can do that in spades in DAI. Of course that's not evil unless you murder peasant #3421

Did you read any of the thread before answering? I feel like we've moved beyond the mustache-twirling discussion. If you didn't, fair enough, but we discussed this earlier.

[Father_Jerusalem]

LOL!

 

As long as there is another ending for the good choices.

 

"Hooray! You've saved the world Inquisitor, now go to your quarters and rest."

 

"Yes I shall! I'm so happy I was able to beat the big baddie and make all my decisions based on my own moral compass. I'm sure everyone would talk it out and the world will right itself."

 

Enters Leliana. Who has been keeping a tally of your incompetance that has deminished the power and influence of the organization. Now that the rifts are all done and you're no longer needed for that, it's time for your new role in service to the organization.

 

She cuts your throat. Now you are a true martyr for Andraste.

 

*And you're barred from all DLCs. They will now be played by the new leader of the Inquisition.*

 

Nope. You want to play an evil idiot, deal with the consequences. There are plenty of options to be ruthless in the game as it stands. If that's not enough for you... welcome to shanktown. Population: you.

 

Leliana shanking anyone for being evil is hilarious. Especially if she's hardened. She has more blood on her hands than Quizzy ever will.

 

Maybe she does. But she recognizes the need for diplomacy and gathering power. If your Inquisitor is too stupid to understand those concepts and insists on being evil for teh lulz and pissing everybody off, Leliana would be more than happy to take your Inquisitor out once you're no longer necessary.

 

That's the difference. The evil you all, apparently, want in the game. Versus the evil that actually exists within the game.

 

I can smell your pettiness from there. A realistic evil quizzie would either have a chance to..uhm...dispose of leliana, or establish a power-base that would protect him from "railroaded cutscene deaths".

 

Doesn't have to be Leliana. You want to be stupid evil, any number of characters are going to be gunning for you. Lels was just an example.

[JackPoint]

There's also that time when the Warden found a wounded dalish and can rob the poor elf and then murder him.

 

Or leaving Sten to die in a prison when the Darkspawn aren't far from Lothering at all. (Sten isn't innocent, but that's just cruel. Execution is more humane than being left to starve or whatever the darkspawn would've done to him)

 

Or slaughtering the entire Mage Circle even after knowing that only a handful are actually using blood magic, summoning demons and rebelling.

 

Or killing a starving prisoner just to take a smuggled key when you could've just easily persuaded him or got him some food.

 

Or leaving a besieged village (Redcliffe) to die because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

 

Or letting Vaughen gang-rape your cousin, bride and bridesmaids for some gold even though you can't trust anything that he says. (Guess what? He sells you out to the guard anyway!)

 

Or letting Anora execute Alistair rather than toning down the punishment to exile. (The latter's still unfair, but at least Alistair gets to live as opposed to former where he's killed because of who his father is)

 

Or defiling the urn of sacred ashes and murdering companions because a crazy cultist gave you a vague promise concerning dragon's power.

 

I miss being evil too...

Sometimes i think folks forget how bad you could be in DAO, that orr they never played it.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Nope. You want to play an evil idiot, deal with the consequences. There are plenty of options to be ruthless in the game as it stands. If that's not enough for you... welcome to shanktown. Population: you.

 

Doesn't have to be Leliana. You want to be stupid evil, any number of characters are going to be gunning for you. Lels was just an example.

I'm not really sure why you think being evil should have negative consequences and pc-death. There have been many evil rulers in the real world who had long periods of ruling. Thedas has many too. Is this based only on your wishful thinking of keeping evil choices purged? Am I missing something?

 

Power-hungry selfishness out for yourself =/= stupid evil

[Sekondar]

Of course, I never meant otherwise, I was starting to worry that it looked like I did




I assumed it's simply a matter of resources and thinking of ME3, I'm almost happy they didn't leave it in two :lol:But, of course, I'd LOVE it if we could get more options and, in fact, I'm quite happy about all those perks that introduce more choices to the dialogues (arcane, noble, etc), I do find them very useful to roleplay more precisely my different Inquisitors




Definitely! But sacrificing those would be easy I'd be happy to make even bigger sacrifices... I'd not mind it, for instance, having fewer companions if that would allowed for having more varied and complex relationships with the ones left

True, ME was worse, especially 3, but I always felt like Shepard was much more defined, and was never expected to be otherwise, so that never annoyed me. Maybe I should expect that with this too, but after Origins, I felt like it was a main draw for the series, even if 2 made Hawke very Shepard-ish... Well. I just wish it was different.

[Ryzaki]

Maybe she does. But she recognizes the need for diplomacy and gathering power. If your Inquisitor is too stupid to understand those concepts and insists on being evil for teh lulz and pissing everybody off, Leliana would be more than happy to take your Inquisitor out once you're no longer necessary.

 

That's the difference. The evil you all, apparently, want in the game. Versus the evil that actually exists within the game.

There's no maybe about it.
 

Oh please don't try to tell me what I want. Also if you really can't tell the difference between being diplomatic to those who you actually need to (no one's asking to stab Celene openly or punch Gaspard in the face) and being diplomatic to everyone that's your issue not mine.

[Lebanese Dude]

Did you read any of the thread before answering? I feel like we've moved beyond the mustache-twirling discussion. If you didn't, fair enough, but we discussed this earlier.

 

No I read them, and all I see is people asking for the ability to do petty ev0l.

 

I'll take morally grey over black and white decisions in DAO/DA2 any day.

 

Is there REALLY any morally grey decision in DAO, besides sacrificing Connor/Isolde? At least morally grey decisions can be headcanoned to be as good or evil intended as you want. There is no "good" headcanon for sacrificing a dozen elves to increase your HP by 25 points. 

DAI still has "ev0l" points in the game too, except its more often pragmatic rather than mustache-twirling and petty.

 

You can still kill people that annoy you just as often as previous games, if not always directly but via the war table or judgments (sometimes directly).

[JackPoint]

Nope. You want to play an evil idiot, deal with the consequences. There are plenty of options to be ruthless in the game as it stands. If that's not enough for you... welcome to shanktown. Population: you.

 

 

Maybe she does. But she recognizes the need for diplomacy and gathering power. If your Inquisitor is too stupid to understand those concepts and insists on being evil for teh lulz and pissing everybody off, Leliana would be more than happy to take your Inquisitor out once you're no longer necessary.

 

That's the difference. The evil you all, apparently, want in the game. Versus the evil that actually exists within the game.

 

 

Doesn't have to be Leliana. You want to be stupid evil, any number of characters are going to be gunning for you. Lels was just an example.

Being evil doesn't mean you have to be a 50 point IQ tweeker, softly sofftly sneaky sneaky, precious.

[Il Divo]

Too true. Annoyed me to no end playing that in my second playthrough.

 

 

 

I was thinking about that core objective as being key for my Qunari Inquisitor, as it were: use the Inquisition to sufficiently weaken the countries it operates in in the long run, making them that much more susceptible should the Qun decide to bring them into the fold.

 

Even so, it's still not quite...satisfactory enough.

 

 

Wrong. BW used to be impeccable at serving two very distinct paths to follow in their games, examples being KotOR and JE. And they were magnificent for it, for more reasons than "stupid evil'/'lolz' as some here claim (and if it's just those, is there anything truly wrong with that?).

 

With the very deliberate choice of naming DA:I as it was, as far as its very obvious connotations are concerned, one certainly has to ask why the 'dark' side isn't truly a thing in the game.

 

There was nothing impeccable about how Bioware handled evil in KotOR. No matter how desperate we might want to imagine the Jedi Council to be in finding the Star Forge, it's absolutely idiotic that they didn't see everything going to hell, given the actions your character can take along the way. 

[Ryzaki]

Eh I preferred JE evil. At least you could influence your companions (probably by twisting their morality with your persuasion gems) so you weren't the lone evil person in a group of good.

 

(also don't know why people keep bringing stupid evil like stupid good is any better.)

[JackPoint]

One of my characters is a dwarf works for the carta, how am i to actually believe he wants to help the humans get what they want when his backstory is that of being sent as a spy/assassin sent to the conclave. that personal story just doesn't dance in regards to the game story..