733 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

There was nothing impeccable about how Bioware handled evil in KotOR. No matter how desperate we might want to imagine the Jedi Council to be in finding the Star Forge, it's absolutely idiotic that they didn't see everything going to hell, given the actions your character can take along the way.

It's also kind of insane that your sole oversight in this quest is a random Padawan with very serious pride issues. This is the bane of galactic civilization and you're giving her leash to...an apprentice. Perfect! NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

[Father_Jerusalem]

I'm not really sure why you think being evil should have negative consequences and pc-death. There have been many evil rulers in the real world who had long periods of ruling. Thedas has many too. Is this based only on your wishful thinking of keeping evil choices purged? Am I missing something?

 

Power-hungry selfishness out for yourself =/= stupid evil

 

Because you're putting together a coalition to fight off the end of the world. There are already evil/ruthless options in the game. 
 

If you refuse to use them because they're not "evil enough", then you're venturing straight into stupid evil territory, and stupid evil should always have consequences.

 

Not because it's evil. Because it's stupid.

 

My second Inquisitor made several evil/selfish/ruthless choices throughout the course of her story, and she would still be alive at the end of it because she played the Game. She didn't just randomly chortle "MOO HOO HA HA I'M SO EVIL!" in front of people. 

[Ryzaki]

It's also kind of insane that your sole oversight in this quest is a random Padawan with very serious pride issues. This is the bane of galactic civilization and you're giving her leash to...an apprentice. Perfect! NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

 

Yeah that was hilarious.

 

Killing most of those fools were my favorite part of KOTOR2.

[Lebanese Dude]

I can't wait to play my selfish jackass Carta rogue. That's as "evil" as I can get so bare with me

[Father_Jerusalem]

There's no maybe about it.
 

Oh please don't try to tell me what I want. Also if you really can't tell the difference between being diplomatic to those who you actually need to (no one's asking to stab Celene openly or punch Gaspard in the face) and being diplomatic to everyone that's your issue not mine.

 

If you're whinging about the game "not letting you be evil", then I'm definitely going to assume that it's because you don't understand that the game lets you be plenty evil, and thus you want more blindingly obvious "LOL I'M TEH EVIL" choices. 

 

Because the game lets you be evil. There are evil choices to make in the game. Your Inquisitor can be evil. It is perfectly allowable to be evil. Am I... am I getting through to you yet?

[Il Divo]

It's also kind of insane that your sole oversight in this quest is a random Padawan with very serious pride issues. This is the bane of galactic civilization and you're giving her leash to...an apprentice. Perfect! NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

 

Haha, I still haven't forgotten that one!

 

And not to mention, Bastila is an extremely famous apprentice...but when you ask why they don't just send a few Jedi Masters with you, you're told it would surely attract the attention of the Sith....so meh. Plot holes, for the win. 

 

I love having role-playing options, but I'd rather my options didn't utterly shatter the internal logic of the universe to the point where I (the player) am scrambling to piece it back together. That's my biggest issue with evil characters. It often becomes a power fantasy for some players, but without leading to the most logical ending scenario (all companions leaving or your character dead in a ditch). 

[JackPoint]

You know when they give you the lead of the iquisition, ii chose " i shall use it for my own power" and you know what the folks watching did, they cheered like they was at a mac donalds getting free burgers. There was no oh **** we need to talk privately conversation with Casandra, Leliana or Cullen they just stood there licking my boots like it was fine lol.

[In Exile]

I'm not really sure why you think being evil should have negative consequences and pc-death. There have been many evil rulers in the real world who had long periods of ruling. Thedas has many too. Is this based only on your wishful thinking of keeping evil choices purged? Am I missing something?

Power-hungry selfishness out for yourself =/= stupid evil

Those rulers did it through personal charisma, a keen political mind and extreme personal loyalty of a cadre of people. Even the most vile dictators had a trusted inner circle. And they dodged assassination attempts quite often. Not mention a lot of dicators came to power killing their dictator predecessor.

[TevinterSupremacist]

If you're whinging about the game "not letting you be evil", then I'm definitely going to assume that it's because you don't understand that the game lets you be plenty evil, and thus you want more blindingly obvious "LOL I'M TEH EVIL" choices. 

 

Because the game lets you be evil. There are evil choices to make in the game. Your Inquisitor can be evil. It is perfectly allowable to be evil. Am I... am I getting through to you yet?

You can be ruthless, not evil. Using the inquisition to amass a personal power base could work in a perfectly evil and non-stupid way. What you have now is varying degrees of what sort of punishment you can inflict on people the story tells you deserve to be punished. That's not really evil, at best it's grey.

[EmissaryofLies]

Eh I preferred JE evil. At least you could influence your companions (probably by twisting their morality with your persuasion gems) so you weren't the lone evil person in a group of good.

 

(also don't know why people keep bringing stupid evil like stupid good is any better.)

 

You're after me own heart!

 

Love that f*cking game. It's an unsung hero that gets no love. But it was nice going the way of the closed fist while not being forced into 'stupid evil'.

[Lebanese Dude]

One of my characters is a dwarf works for the carta, how am i to actually believe he wants to help the humans get what they want when his backstory is that of being sent as a spy/assassin sent to the conclave. that personal story just doesn't dance in regards to the game story..

Why would dwarves want to become Lyrium mining slaves to Corypheus?

Why wouldn't a dwarf want to use the humans to get power and riches?

[TevinterSupremacist]

Those rulers did it through personal charisma, a keen political mind and extreme personal loyalty of a cadre of people. Even the most vile dictators had a trusted inner circle. And they dodged assassination attempts quite often. Not mention a lot of dicators came to power killing their dictator predecessor.

And there's no reason why a person put in the inquisition's leadership shouldn't be able to strive for that and succeed.

[JackPoint]

I can't wait to play my selfish jackass Carta rogue. That's as "evil" as I can get so bare with me

Dwarf rogues are 100% fun

[Vilegrim]

Not arguing in favor of pointless cruelty but our companions are not all rainbows and sunshine here.

 

Cullen- Lyrium addict. You want to keep him leashed? Get him back on the stuff and he'll shut up and go with anything against Mages.

Blackwall- Sure he'll be an issue, until his own wretched child killing past is exposed. Who cares what he thinks.

Josie- she may be a problem. But why can't I blackmail her and her family? She won't be going anywhere when faced with making some more coin.

Cassandra- religious zealot already

IB- His name means liar, enough said

Sera- Cares about nothing except making money and sticking it to nobles. Whocares if she ends up in a ditch

Leliana- Is willing to kidnap kids and cut throats

Dorian- Could be a major issue if you want to romance him. If not he'll pack up and be on a boat to Tevinter.

Cole- Will leave anyway

Solas- has his own agenda

Viv- has her own agenda

 

Yeah not seeing the major overhaul you keep saying is needed. What you want is to just not be an "evil" or ethically questionable character. Let's not pretend that the game isn't already set up for that type of behavior.

 

Of course non andrastians would be victimized by it, that's the point of religious persecution.

 

except it isn't because the choice is never offered to actually do an evil act.  Their are none in this game.  Stuff companions don't like? Yay?  Actually going after wealth and power in a serious way, or on a crusading kick or just beign a sadist? Nope, no campaign for you, this is the first BW game where not even grey is an option, just white and white with a touch of mud.

[JackPoint]

Why would dwarves want to become Lyrium mining slaves to Corypheus?

Why wouldn't a dwarf want to use the humans to get power and riches?

1: corypheus wouldn't stand a chance fighting the carta/Legion in the deep roads.

2: the Carta already as it.

[Vilegrim]

Because you're putting together a coalition to fight off the end of the world. There are already evil/ruthless options in the game. 
 

If you refuse to use them because they're not "evil enough", then you're venturing straight into stupid evil territory, and stupid evil should always have consequences.

 

Not because it's evil. Because it's stupid.

 

My second Inquisitor made several evil/selfish/ruthless choices throughout the course of her story, and she would still be alive at the end of it because she played the Game. She didn't just randomly chortle "MOO HOO HA HA I'M SO EVIL!" in front of people. 

name me what you consider to be an evil option.  I saw precsely none that I consider something a saint wouldn't do while maybe holding his/her nose.

[In Exile]

Oh for crying out loud, you have said this a million times in different threads. Letting you murderknife like in DA:O or do even more selfish-power hungry actions wouldn't violate their moral code, at all.
Simple. They tolerate the warden's murdering people around for his benefit because their moral code values "everyone not getting eaten by archdemon" higher than "a few people got murdered for selfish reasons". That's it. Hard truth, your companions are adults, they swallow it and move on. Killing you for your actions would result in worse things than the ones you do. Leaving you and not helping you with the archedmon would have the same problem. Only doing something monumentally extreme and personal to the companions, not just murdering people they never met, should result in them turning on you and not just disapproving. They don't live in a disney story, they should be able to view past their disapproval to the end goal they themselves value more.

And just like that happened with the warden who was ferelden's only hope against archedemon, since non-fereldern wardens weren't around, it could have happened with the inquisitor who was the only one who could seal rifts.

We can discuss why bioware chose not to have evil pc choices and if we like that or not, but saying that allowing for evil choices nullifies companions' personalities, unless they turn on you is just plain wrong.

There's absolutely no reason - beside your protagonist shield - why they'd keep you alive in preference to Alistair. The game works in part because Alistair is spineless.

And now when we reference the murder knife we're talking about petty, psychopathic evil. Robbing wounded elves? Killing helpless prisoners? That's not done for the sake of stopping the blight. That's done because you get off on causing pain.

There's absolutely nothing the Warden offers that justifies not killing him. It's all plot contrivance.

Alistair is as LG as you can get. The same with Leliana and Wynne. Yet they stand by as you get your torture fetish on because ... reasons? It's nonsense.

You have no value. Alistair has the treaties. No one knows GWs have to strike the killing blow against the AD. Hell, even with 0 Wardens the party had the treaties and could just Blackwall the whole thing.

When Morrigan suggests participating in a blood magic ritual proposed by a Tevinter magister Wynne should be killing you alongside Alistair. Except - like with her outing you as a BM - it would stop you from completing the game. So the game ignores it.

[Ryzaki]

If you're whinging about the game "not letting you be evil", then I'm definitely going to assume that it's because you don't understand that the game lets you be plenty evil, and thus you want more blindingly obvious "LOL I'M TEH EVIL" choices. 

 

Because the game lets you be evil. There are evil choices to make in the game. Your Inquisitor can be evil. It is perfectly allowable to be evil. Am I... am I getting through to you yet?

 

It really doesn't? It let's you be jerkish. (And worst you can't really be jerkish a lot of the time til you've already garned disapproval so they're hostile towards you first).

 

Alright. What are all these evil choices you're seeing? If you mean the wartable save your breath.

[Vilegrim]

There's absolutely no reason - beside your protagonist shield - why they'd keep you alive in preference to Alistair. The game works in part because Alistair is spineless.

And now when we reference the murder knife we're talking about petty, psychopathic evil. Robbing wounded elves? Killing helpless prisoners? That's not done for the sake of stopping the blight. That's done because you get off on causing pain.

There's absolutely nothing the Warden offers that justifies not killing him. It's all plot contrivance.

Alistair is as LG as you can get. The same with Leliana and Wynne. Yet they stand by as you get your torture fetish on because ... reasons? It's nonsense.

You have no value. Alistair has the treaties. No one knows GWs have to strike the killing blow against the AD. Hell, even with 0 Wardens the party had the treaties and could just Blackwall the whole thing.

When Morrigan suggests participating in a blood magic ritual proposed by a Tevinter magister Wynne should be killing you alongside Alistair. Except - like with her outing you as a BM - it would stop you from completing the game. So the game ignores it.

 

 

I really, really wanted them to try.  Alistair can burn for all I care, as can Wynne, neither have any likeable qualities, a spineless weakling and a condescending hypocrite? Pah to them both,

[Ryzaki]

You're after me own heart!

 

Love that f*cking game. It's an unsung hero that gets no love. But it was nice going the way of the closed fist while not being forced into 'stupid evil'.

 

The only thing that bugged me about JE was the most CF action locked you out of the CE exclusive style

 

THAT MADE NO SENSE.

 

It was far more cf to tell the slave to stab her master and free herself than sell her into slavery. But only the latter gives you the CF martial. I was so mad. I just cheated myself the style because that was too dumb for words.

[Il Divo]

I really, really wanted them to try.  Alistair can burn for all I care, as can Wynne, neither have any likeable qualities, a spineless weakling and a condescending hypocrite? Pah to them both,

 

Fair enough, but that still doesn't address the criticism: it's a perfect demonstration of why evil role-playing options heavily break immersion. It shouldn't be "play a good character and experience a great story" vs. "play an evil character and experience an illogical story". 

[In Exile]

I really, really wanted them to try. Alistair can burn for all I care, as can Wynne, neither have any likeable qualities, a spineless weakling and a condescending hypocrite? Pah to them both,

Wynne does try. And only loses because you're the Protagonist, and so can't lose.

[Hazegurl]

Nope. You want to play an evil idiot, deal with the consequences. There are plenty of options to be ruthless in the game as it stands. If that's not enough for you... welcome to shanktown. Population: you.

So you shouldn't face the consequences for being stupid good?

[stop_him]

Not really possible in this game. Go D&D and find a dungeon master to create a campaign for a full evil-aligned party?

[Ryzaki]

Wynne does try. And only loses because you're the Protagonist, and so can't lose.

 

? Wynne only loses to 3 other trained fighter because the PC is the protagonist?

 

Come on now. She's an abomination sure. But she's hardly invincible.