733 réponses à ce sujet

[Eldial3los]

Politics is about making deals, you get some you lose some . It just seem to me the inquisition is getting everything handed to them on a silver platter. Where are the hard decisions or the lesser evil choices

*Yo dawg I need fighters
*Sure here take them
*Oh I know u have a prisoner schedule for public hanging tomorrow but I need him too
* Cool take him no problem.
* One of your companion is killing nobles but as people of orlais we are fine with it. We will support you.

So u recruit mage or Templar into your inquisition and there is no querral or huge disagreement in the camp? Beside a small mention by Cullen that there are querral?

In lord of the ring even face with great evil people struggle to work together. Imagine LOTR were everyone just rallies behind u and kills the bad guy it would be boring as hell. Or games of throne, it is interesting because everyone has their own agenda. It creates that idea that even when face with common enemy people have different ideology and everything a can fall apart.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

-Don't give a damn about whole Andraste thing but use her name for your own power.

-Harden every companion...Leliana too.

-Don't be nice to anyone of your companions(make sure you really pi$$ them off).

-Chose to build Inquisiton as force of fear(use Cullen most on war table for this).

-When asked what will be purpose of Inquisition say it will be for your own power(logical choice )

-Help mages but conscript them(don't be pro mage that wants 100% freedom,more like mage that wishes other mages bound to his fingers).

-Play out someone's heart...meaning romance someone then break up with them.

-Leave Hawke to die rather then Stroud/Alistair/Loghain and then chose to exile Wardens xD(in another words survival of Warden from fade will mean nothing and sacrifice of Hawke will also mean nothing)

-Leave Celene as sole ruler(this way she will eat from your hands and once again you are one who has power)

-Don't do rituals and be one who drinks from well(simple reason is because you want power for yourself)

-Make sure to make Vivenne Divine.

-Have Cullen still addicted to lyrium.

-When judging make most harsh judgments like: execution and tranquil if mage is involved.

-Go kill Cory in end!

 

And that is how it goes "evil Inquisitor's play".

not really too evil though :/

 

where are the selling companions into slavery? 

i mean i always sold fenris back to his master

that was the only approval i got from anders

right before i killed him

 

where are the dueling your companions to the death? 

I killed shale just to test my combat prowess 

 

or coup de grace for a potential ally?

zevran

 

or disagreeing so badly you have to kill a character as soon as you meet them?!
Wynne 

 

where are shutting people up with the murder knife?

 

this isnt really much evil to do.

 

In ME3 you could shoot mordin in the back as he walked away

why couldnt we throw the murder knife as one of our companions leaving? 

 

Hell why couldnt we help assassins?

i was hoping that i could kill Iron Bull/help the assassins get him and throw his body over skyhold

It would have made for a truly evil moment. 

Bull defends himself and you just chuck the murder knife into his throat and toss him over the wall of skyhold as you retrieve your knife. 

I got his disapproval low after i saved the chargers and before we went for a walk hoping to do so. 

 

And it would have even been more evil to let one of the assassins go and have the inquisition be told that iron bull only pretended to be tal vashoth and tried to kill you and this recruit helped save your life. Then you could get the delicious drama with the chargers!

 

Or after you throw iron bull off you could go the chargers and tell them their boss is dead and the assassins got him. 

[SLooPPy JOE]

This is a genuine question and I might not be aware of a few legitimately-good answers. Which games out there allow you to play a "really evil" character that you created yourself? Skyrim? Maybe... to some degree, perhaps because you can kill an entire town if you feel like it. Or perhaps the GTA series because you can highjack cars and kill the driver, or kill a pedestrian or kill... wait... is it just about killing? To be honest I think that playing a "truly evil" character in a game in the veins of say... Mass Effect or Dragon Age (Origins perhaps more than Inquisition, or even more so in DA2 maybe) would be too risky because then the devs would have to let us go "all the way" and they themselves (the devs) would have to create "opportunities" that maybe they wouldn't even be comfortable creating in the first place.

 

This seems a simple subject but it implies more than we might think at first glance. We gamers maybe ask for it but I'm not sure if devs out there are ready to take the leap and finally give us "true evil", so evil that after completing the game you actually feel bad about yourself and you immediately want to start a new game again as a good guy to "redeem" your chosen paths that previously lead you to murder, manipulate, control, enslave and rape. The only dev studio I can think of who might allow a few of such things happen is perhaps CDP Red, maybe they will in their future Cyberpunk game. But BioWare? Not sure. Not saying no but... too risky I think.

Skyrim/Fallout let you really decide who you're going to be. Just finished Fallout 3 again as a terrible person who only cares about coming out on top with more caps in his pocket. I guess I nuked a town to get a hotel room and then sold one of my neighbors into slavery...

 

BUT these games have really limited interactions with other characters, and it would really complicate Bioware games if we were able to do ANYTHING like in the Skyrim/Fallout games. I'm not looking for an "evil" character, just some options to be ruthless. I just want more morally grey and controversial decisions. Want me to save the world? Sure, but I might screw up Orzammar's political system and then kill a tower full of innocent mages to speed things along.

 

The last game to make me feel bad about myself was Spec Ops: The Line, and you can't fix the mistakes that were made by replaying it... brutal. That game haunted me in the best way. And all that achomplished by a third person shooter? Crazy good.

[renfrees]

-Harden every companion...Leliana too.

-Don't be nice to anyone of your companions(make sure you really pi$$ them off).

You can't get access to companions quests, if you pi$$ them off. So, no hardening. A poor design decision, imho. You have to be nice in order to play out companion's arc.

[JackPoint]

 What most people are asking for are more pragmatic choices, darker resolutions, consequences for both good and bad choices, perhaps some that requires betraying those close to you, to have more freedom with how we act with companions.  I see no point in having such reactive companions when the PC is given nothing much for them to react to. Most of the time the game sets it up for the IQ to be justified in their anger.

 

Typical disapproval companion interaction for companions not named Sera:

 

Companion disapproves everything.

IQ: "Hey what's up?"

Com: "Screw you! Let me tell you how you suck!" *rants*

IQ: "Please leave." or *punch*(option for only two out of nine)

Com: "No!"  or "I'm leaving."(option for one out of nine)

 

DA2:

 

Companion disapproves everything

*Hawke expresses opinions that is more than just one sentence.*

Hawke: "What's your problem?"

Com: "You suck! But I kinda still wanna bang ya."

Hawke: "I know right? Rivalry system ftw!"

 

DAO:

 

Companion disapproves everything (provided that they even live to make it back to camp)

Warden: "Hey."

Com: "You suck!"

Warden: "So? You suck too. Whiner."

Com: "This is a list of shyt you did that p*sses me off!"

Warden: "Yeah well let me tell about how you can take that list and go f*ck yourself with it."

Com: "I'm not talking to you anymore!" or *Fight* or "I'm leaving."

 

Is it too much to ask for a bit of all three?

The rivelry system was spot on, not sure why they canned it.

[JackPoint]

You can't get access to companions quests, if you pi$$ them off. So, no hardening. A poor design decision, imho. You have to be nice in order to play out companion's arc.

The comps arn't interresting enough to even bother with, or am i just being a pedantic ****** because i really want to string Solas up for a punching bag..

[Biotic Flash Kick]

The rivelry system was spot on, not sure why they canned it.

because they canned personal skill trees

[Ieldra]

So you are essentially telling us that Bioware is no longer interesting in making ROLEPLAYING games.

DAI has more roleplaying in it than ME1, ME2, ME3 and DA2, so I doubt that.

 

Take any story-driven game, and there always some character types not appropriate for the story. Basically, they don't let you play types that would plausibly result in a nonstandard game over.

 

Having said that, there is room for improvement even if you discount those types.

[DameMagpie]

I don't want Envy's vision of the Inquisition, so DA:I 'good guy' works for me.

 

This latest character is clicking whatever evil RP. Did I imprison some grand cleric or have her assassinated?  Imagine that. You can bargain with Ismael, genocide ancient elves for power, and be a nasty ****** at times, so what do you want?

 

I know, more evil.

 

you bastards

[Ieldra]

Indeed there are quite a few evil options. What about having a bard's tongue cut out...

 

I actually find it realistic that most of the evil is hidden. It's just like the real world. People usually don't want their skeletons in the closet to be known, and one of the best things you can have as a villain is a good reputation.

[IanPolaris]

If you're whinging about the game "not letting you be evil", then I'm definitely going to assume that it's because you don't understand that the game lets you be plenty evil, and thus you want more blindingly obvious "LOL I'M TEH EVIL" choices. 

 

Because the game lets you be evil. There are evil choices to make in the game. Your Inquisitor can be evil. It is perfectly allowable to be evil. Am I... am I getting through to you yet?

 

No you can't.  None of those evil choices actually do anything!  Did you save Empress Celene?  No?  Then it's Gaspard that makes peace with Fereldan.  One word and gender choice of the mission is changed.  Did you exile the Grey Wardens?  It doesn't hurt your power at all...you just don't get a series of missions that might destroy them anyway (and those missions have such a miniscule amount of influence attached  to them, that they are basically irrelevant).  Does making any of the evil choices make it easier or more difficult to get power/do missions/get allies to defeat Cory?  Do people even treat you differently?  Do you get to see people in the racks if you are an evil Quizzie?  NO [other than the Envy Demon's nightmare].

 

Basically, none of your so-called evil or moral choices matter, so they aren't real choices.

[IanPolaris]

There's absolutely no reason - beside your protagonist shield - why they'd keep you alive in preference to Alistair. The game works in part because Alistair is spineless.

And now when we reference the murder knife we're talking about petty, psychopathic evil. Robbing wounded elves? Killing helpless prisoners? That's not done for the sake of stopping the blight. That's done because you get off on causing pain.

There's absolutely nothing the Warden offers that justifies not killing him. It's all plot contrivance.

Alistair is as LG as you can get. The same with Leliana and Wynne. Yet they stand by as you get your torture fetish on because ... reasons? It's nonsense.

You have no value. Alistair has the treaties. No one knows GWs have to strike the killing blow against the AD. Hell, even with 0 Wardens the party had the treaties and could just Blackwall the whole thing.

When Morrigan suggests participating in a blood magic ritual proposed by a Tevinter magister Wynne should be killing you alongside Alistair. Except - like with her outing you as a BM - it would stop you from completing the game. So the game ignores it.

 

In DAO you can lose every single companion due to lack of approval save Alistair [for admittedly clumsy plot reasons].  EVERY. ONE.

 

You can even in the end choose to betray and even murder-knife Alistair in the end.

[Dalendria]

This is not that sort of game for the most part though you can inflict fates worse than death, like having people made tranquil, banishing them to the sea of ash, putting a sign on them that they stole from corypheus then leaving them for the venitari, and of course in one case you can keep someone from having a proper burial by having their skull used as a stage prop on the evil of evil.

 

rofl.  i did all of these in my 4th playthrough.  i was a mage that made that tevinter tranquil (the who helped wardens with blood magic ritual).  he pissed me off with his "kill me i dont care attitude."  i was playing a pro-circle mage who hated templars and mages because horrible crap went down when her circle fell (murder of lover and friends).  she was not evil as much as she was deeply depressed, emotionally numb, bitter and broken.  let's just say the Mages were pissed with my decision.

 

that is the closet i think we can come to an "evil" character.  but even with that, i wondered why everyone still backed her.  she was messed up in the head, unstable and harsh.  i hope that bioware will continue with the inquisition. i really want to see how it turns out based on the type of leader you were.

[IanPolaris]

DM's usually don't allow omnicidal chaotic evil characters either, so what's your point?
This is a heroic campaign; if your character was an omnicidal chaotic evil maniac then he wouldn't be here, ergo you cannot roll an omnicidal chaotic evil character.

There are some that do, but you're right that the overwhelming bias in TTRPGs is for GMs not to allow such characters.

 

This is done because a GM has to cater and run a game for a group of players  and not for a single person.  That is the real reason while 'evil' characters are frowned upon in most TTRPGs.

 

In a CRPG, if you are playing solo, then it doesn't matter.  You aren't going to offend or conflict with anyone (real) other than yourself, and as such, the restriction is artificial at best.

[In Exile]

In DAO you can lose every single companion due to lack of approval save Alistair [for admittedly clumsy plot reasons]. EVERY. ONE.

You can even in the end choose to betray and even murder-knife Alistair in the end.

The same happens in DAI except for the fact that now you're given a balanced party. Aside from showing that you're inclined to abuse caps lock, you don't have a point here.

[Pincey]

It was a jest, no need to be serious all the time (but they all can be seen as evil choices, if anything they are "clever" evil choices, instead of the random "let's kill everyone because I'm evil")

 

I'd like more interactive consequences but the point is BW is the dungeon master in their games and not the PC and as far as I know they have never made a game where PC was the dungeon master.

 

 

 

I"m honestly curious do people still play with that mindset? I mean if anything DA gives you a much fuller range, why restricting yourself, is it nostalgia?

 

About the Dnd Alignment mindset, i don't play my characters that way since like you i find it restrictive.

[Jerkules17]

I never understand why people want to role play as villains in games where your the hero? The worst you can be is a anti hero or a lawful evil villain,but never a chaotic evil villain. It mostly depends on the game's story. In cases such as the fantasy/rpg version of GTA aka TES story matters little if not at all since game play is what people care. Does it make sense the PC is a so called chosen one/hero while being a always chaotic evil psycho,and leader of every guild? Doesn't matter.

Then again choices are cosmetic most of the time(unless the fan-base agrees on things) since games are about power fantasies, hence the reason we buy them.

[Jerkules17]

About the Dnd Alignment mindset, i don't play my characters that way since like you i find it restrictive.

It sometimes helps,such as giving you the option to play as different characters,and join different factions aka multiple play throughs. The only problems is most games don't encourage it. 

[Sekondar]

The same happens in DAI except for the fact that now you're given a balanced party. Aside from showing that you're inclined to abuse caps lock, you don't have a point here.

The same happens? I can kill most of my companions? And don't say I can just not recruit them. Being evil doesn't mean, that I'm going to turn away help when offered. Plus, if I'm locked out of all that content, why would I do it? Once again, it worked fine in Origins, don't get why people are saying it's impossible now. Once again, I'm not saying I want to be killing for the sake of killing. I don't necessarily want to be Chaotic Evil. I'm not expecting to be The Joker. But the way it is right now, I can't even be Batman.

[Kimarous]

The way I see it, the very nature of DAI makes it virtually impossible to be evil. Two main reasons for this:

 

1) There's absolutely no way that you can TOP the villain! Think about it - in pretty much every game when you can "play evil", there comes a point where you either become more powerful than the main antagonist and basically take over his role, or you get to accomplish tasks that are on par or even worse than what the villain has. In most cases, it tends to stem from controlling a particular source of power... the Water Dragon in Jade Empire, the Star Forge of KOTOR, etc. Now put that in the context of Inquisition - you have ZERO means of controlling red lyrium (and trying to do so would be suicidal, let alone REASON 2 BELOW), and how does one out-evil reality-rending demons? The only way I can think of would ultimately destroy all of existence, including yourself. Just saying, kinda counterproductive.

 

2) Most games where you get to play evil are as independents, free to their own devices, oftentimes fugitives of some variety. Sure, there might be a token good teammate looming over your shoulder, but one dissenting opinion isn't going to keep you down. You can't pull that same crap with an NGO superpower with hundreds of soldiers and an adamant PR leader breathing down your neck! You think you'd successfully fall to the dark side if the entire Jedi order travelled with you on the Republic cruiser Ebon Hawk? If the peer pressure alone didn't kill you, their overwhelming numbers would as soon as you cross the line.

[Jerkules17]

The way I see it, the very nature of DAI makes it virtually impossible to be evil. Two main reasons for this:

 

1) There's absolutely no way that you can TOP the villain! Think about it - in pretty much every game when you can "play evil", there comes a point where you either become more powerful than the main antagonist and basically take over his role, or you get to accomplish tasks that are on par or even worse than what the villain has. In most cases, it tends to stem from controlling a particular source of power... the Water Dragon in Jade Empire, the Star Forge of KOTOR, etc. Now put that in the context of Inquisition - you have ZERO means of controlling red lyrium (and trying to do so would be suicidal, let alone REASON 2 BELOW), and how does one out-evil reality-rending demons? The only way I can think of would ultimately destroy all of existence, including yourself. Just saying, kinda counterproductive.

 

2) Most games where you get to play evil are as independents, free to their own devices, oftentimes fugitives of some variety. Sure, there might be a token good teammate looming over your shoulder, but one dissenting opinion isn't going to keep you down. You can't pull that same crap with an NGO superpower with hundreds of soldiers and an adamant PR leader breathing down your neck! You think you'd successfully fall to the dark side if the entire Jedi order travelled with you on the Republic cruiser Ebon Hawk? If the peer pressure alone didn't kill you, their overwhelming numbers would as soon as you cross the line.

Funny how the overwhelming numbers never kill you in games that let you go all psycho,even if they know of your evil deeds or saw you. 

[Sekondar]

The way I see it, the very nature of DAI makes it virtually impossible to be evil. Two main reasons for this:

1) There's absolutely no way that you can TOP the villain! Think about it - in pretty much every game when you can "play evil", there comes a point where you either become more powerful than the main antagonist and basically take over his role, or you get to accomplish tasks that are on par or even worse than what the villain has. In most cases, it tends to stem from controlling a particular source of power... the Water Dragon in Jade Empire, the Star Forge of KOTOR, etc. Now put that in the context of Inquisition - you have ZERO means of controlling red lyrium (and trying to do so would be suicidal, let alone REASON 2 BELOW), and how does one out-evil reality-rending demons? The only way I can think of would ultimately destroy all of existence, including yourself. Just saying, kinda counterproductive.

2) Most games where you get to play evil are as independents, free to their own devices, oftentimes fugitives of some variety. Sure, there might be a token good teammate looming over your shoulder, but one dissenting opinion isn't going to keep you down. You can't pull that same crap with an NGO superpower with hundreds of soldiers and an adamant PR leader breathing down your neck! You think you'd successfully fall to the dark side if the entire Jedi order travelled with you on the Republic cruiser Ebon Hawk? If the peer pressure alone didn't kill you, their overwhelming numbers would as soon as you cross the line.

Sure, I get what you're saying, but if I defeat the main bad guy, he's no longer a threat. It's not a problem, that he was more powerful. I only want power, so why would I be interested in destroying the world? I don't want that kind of evil. I just wish it was possible for me to play, like I was doing all this, for my own personal power. Cory is a threat to me, and incidently everyone else, so I'll eliminate him in the process.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Sure, I get what you're saying, but if I defeat the main bad guy, he's no longer a threat. It's not a problem, that he was more powerful. I only want power, so why would I be interested in destroying the world? I don't want that kind of evil. I just wish it was possible for me to play, like I was doing all this, for my own personal power. Cory is a threat to me, and incidently everyone else, so I'll eliminate him in the process.

i can physically enter the Fade, why can't i claim godhood for myself? why cannot i rule the world? the inquisition is a big power now, i'm able to influence Orlais, i have my own zealots. why not conquer it? why i cannot be the person envy showed me?

[ThreeF]

It sometimes helps,such as giving you the option to play as different characters,and join different factions aka multiple play throughs. The only problems is most games don't encourage it. 

The thing is in this game you don't need to play as a traditional one-dimensional evil character in order to be evil. The game's point is legends=/=what really happened and this give you quite a bit of room to do things your way.

 

And really, would any sane villain get his hands on a organization that gives him so much power and not take advantage of it? The limitation of DAI is that it focuses on "evil" in a different way than many fantasy games and that means that the games that let you play the traditional "evil" have their own limitations. I'm not saying that the way it is handled is perfect, it does need to be polished but still. You get to be ruthless in WT missions, you get the opportunity to create chaos when choosing the Divine and at the Winter Palace Ball and destabilize Ferelden and Orlais, help Qun to have a better footing. If you think of it you really get to build your own little empire and most of the population will be none the wiser and that is pretty "evil". No sane competent person who wants power will go around pissing  powerful people off and killing them on purpose just because it's the "evil" thing to do, it's not "evil" it's "insane" and sometimes "stupid". A competed villain will see and take advantage of the opportunity given them and realize that he can not do it alone. In a way you can't be Sera's evil twin, but you get to be Vivienne.

 

The relationship IQ has with the world is symbiotic.

[Ryzaki]

The same happens in DAI except for the fact that now you're given a balanced party. Aside from showing that you're inclined to abuse caps lock, you don't have a point here.

 

? No you can't. Varric and Cass never leave you. Vivienne doesn't leave you once you've recruited her. (Hell I don't even think you can make her leave either.)