733 réponses à ce sujet

[Sekondar]

No not always.

Please elaborate.

[Sekondar]

Like I said, you are allowed to be manipulative and sneaky, not insane with poor people skills in this game. Previous games allowed you to be the insane kind.

I was only arguing your last post, where this wasn't taken into consideration.

[ThreeF]

I was only arguing your last post, where this wasn't taken into consideration.

Yeah but in game scope doesn't allows you to kill any of those people, the game argues that you need them to achieve your goal and that killing them would not serve any purpose besides "i'm evil, so I can". Now if there was an option to recruit Samson in the event you kill Cullen, and deal with consequences of  that,  it would be a different case, but also it would a different game.

[Sekondar]

Yeah but in game scope doesn't allows you to kill any of those people, the game argues that you need them to achieve your goal and that killing them would not serve any purpose besides "i'm evil, so I can". Now if there was an option to recruit Samson in the event you kill Cullen, and deal with consequences of that, it would be a different case, but also it would a different game.

I don't think it would even serve an evil guys goals necessarily, but I never said I intended to do that. Was only an argument against the supposed passive behavior of Miss Pentaghast.

[KainD]

Please elaborate.

I trusted my life to Morinth in ME when I helped her kill Samara, and that trust payed off.

[ThreeF]

I don't think it would even serve an evil guys goals necessarily, but I never said I intended to do that. Was only an argument against the supposed passive behavior of Miss Pentaghast.

Yes, but if she is not given enough reason to take an action, she will not take it and the game as is doesn't give her enough reason. You don't fully know what her character is capable of under other circumstances that are not explored in game, you can have some insight (like her comment about crestwood mayor) but that's it.

[Sekondar]

Yes, but if she is not given enough reason to take an action, she will not take it and the game as is doesn't give her enough reason. You don't fully know what her character is capable of under other circumstances that are not explored in game, you can have some insight (like her comment about crestwood mayor) but that's it.

Yeah, and I want the option to give her reason.

[JackPoint]

Ah yes, I keep thinking about when you first recruit him at Skyhold if you side with the mages. I forgot that you get the option again if you side with the Temps and let him join at Haven.

 

I personally never understand that as he did nothing at Haven that warrants kicking him out.  I'm expected to just do so based on Viv or Cass whining.

I just never understood his charracter and why bioware thought it was a good thing, same with Sera, two whining teenagers i cannot deal with. I have two of those in real life.

 

Plus i follow the three cardinal rules of DA, dont make deals with demons, don't touch it, and dont drink it.

[zeypher]

I just never understood his charracter and why bioware thought it was a good thing, same with Sera, two whining teenagers i cannot deal with. I have two of those in real life.

Probably designed to represent the tumblr teenagers.

[In Exile]

I only played the first one as a Renegade, but I found that to be fairly reasonable?

The kind of unsanctioned murder you commit would result in a series of psych evaluations and your eventual dismissal. Of course, the Spectres try to handwave that away by making each operative immune to legal prosecution which is insane when you think about it.

[IanPolaris]

DAI has more roleplaying in it than ME1, ME2, ME3 and DA2, so I doubt that.

 

I dispute this.  In ME1 (and thus continuing to ME2 and ME3) the player was told upfront that there were certain one-time restrictions to your character for campaign reasons.  That is you had to be LCdr Shepard, you had to be an alliance marine, and you had to have had a past that included high degrees of skill and either heroism or notoriety.  Past that point, you were free to mold your Shepard in a myriad of different ways in ME1 and the game responded to it.  It was why ME1 (well one reason) why it was so popular!

 

Can we say that about DAI?  No.  Sure we get to pick a race and class, but our entire backstory is picked for us once we do (unlike ME where you could pick your own background and service record).  In ME (and DAO and DA2) you could choose different ways to get things done, some of them pretty dark.  You could also complete missions with entirely different mindsets and the universe would proactively react to that.   That really isn't the case in DAI.

 

In fact one of the huge criticisms about DA2 (and DA2 was better than DAI) was that Hawke was pretty much helpless against the power of P-L-O-T making him (or her) out to be an ineffectual idiot....and of course the HUGE outcry over the end of ME3 (which I will *not* ressurect here) was that the ending was done in such a way that all those proactive choices and how the universe responded to them was all wiped away in the last 10 minutes of the game.

[ThreeF]

Can we say that about DAI?  No.  Sure we get to pick a race and class, but our entire backstory is picked for us once we do .

Did you talked to Josephine in Haven? Not sure if it's the same with other races but with Human you get to build your own back story there. In a way it's even less restrictive than in DAO

[DesMephisto]

Honestly I am a bit surprised, if you sided with the Templars you should be able to capture mages and make them tranquil and have an army of tranquil mages. Go full fist and just devistate the mages entirely. Or siding with the mages go nuts and just take lyrium from templars and outlaw templars using lyrium. 

[In Exile]

Did you talked to Josephine in Haven? Not sure if it's the same with other races but with Human you get to build your own back story there. In a way it's even less restrictive than in DAO

It's the same for evey race. There are other conversation options that get at that generally. And you're told your background at the character creation. Seeing as how we've got 4 races instead of 3 backgrounds like ME1 this is a step forward. This replaced 4-5 backgrounds for a human only PC.

[IanPolaris]

Did you talked to Josephine in Haven? Not sure if it's the same with other races but with Human you get to build your own back story there. In a way it's even less restrictive than in DAO

 

I have talked with her, and it's not building your own backstory.  Building your own backstory would be doing what ME does and giving you an option of choosing what sort of person you were (or you could do an origin story like they do in DAO and at least help define who you are before becoming the hero).

 

Adding in curlicues that never really come up in the game is not building your background in a meaningful way.

[ThreeF]

I have talked with her, and it's not building your own backstory.  Building your own backstory would be doing what ME does and giving you an option of choosing what sort of person you were (or you could do an origin story like they do in DAO and at least help define who you are before becoming the hero).

 

Adding in curlicues that never really come up in the game is not building your background in a meaningful way.

It's cosmetic but so is picking your record. As for choosing what sort of person you were, I'm so not going into this conversation again, once per day is enough.

[IanPolaris]

It's cosmetic but so is picking your record. As for choosing what sort of person you were, I'm so not going into this conversation again, once per day is enough.

 

No, picking your own record in ME (certainly in ME1) is not cosmetic.  It has a real and immediate effect in how people react to you, and it directly affects the sort of person you are.  Can you overcome that background and be different?  Yes, but it takes effort...and that means it's not cosmetic.

[In Exile]

I have talked with her, and it's not building your own backstory. Building your own backstory would be doing what ME does and giving you an option of choosing what sort of person you were (or you could do an origin story like they do in DAO and at least help define who you are before becoming the hero).

Adding in curlicues that never really come up in the game is not building your background in a meaningful way.

You literally get to choose your back story through dialogue. You get to choose who you were and what you did. It's just nonsense to say otherwise.

[In Exile]

No, picking your own record in ME (certainly in ME1) is not cosmetic. It has a real and immediate effect in how people react to you, and it directly affects the sort of person you are. Can you overcome that background and be different? Yes, but it takes effort...and that means it's not cosmetic.

What? It takes 0 effort. All you get is one quest, a bit of flavour dialogue, and some minor boost in your P/R score. There are more conversations about your race in DAI than your background in ME1.

[JackPoint]

You literally get to choose your back story through dialogue. You get to choose who you were and what you did. It's just nonsense to say otherwise.

No you dont, you get to confirm certain peramiters of yourself that Leliana as shared with 3 Amigos, nothing morre nothing less.

[Dr. Rush]

Dragon Age doesn't really have the morality system or narrative in place for evil characters. Just like Mass Effect doesn't either.

My earlier post about SWTOR is an example of a game where the morality system and the narrative are both designed to accommodate and facilitate roleplaying an evil character and making evil choices. 

 

You need the devs to be willing to create a morality system and the lore to justify evilness. The narratives and the protagonists are generally designed to be some kind of hero in DA and ME, not an outright villain. Inquisitor, Warden, Hawke and Shep can't justify just killing and electrocuting everyone they meet into submission, as satisfying as that might be, it does not fit the narrative of those games. But when you are playing as a Sith Lord, then it works beautifully. Sith lords feed off of anger and pain, so they physically get more powerful from their evil deeds, furthermore, their have the ideological justification of the Sith code. 

 

Jade Empire had a pretty solid morality system and the lore to give players some good evil roleplaying. Being able to embrace the Closed Fist ideology is very similar to the sith code and ultimately the narrative gives the player the freedom to make meaningful evil choices throughout the entire game. 

 

Sadly, I think Bioware has gotten away from evil, because somewhere along the line, they decided they don't want to let players become outright villains, they always want us to be some kind of hero. A really evil playthrough of KOTOR ended with the protagonist as a villain, an evil playthrough of Jade Empire ended with the protagonist as a villain, but the same really can't be said for DA or ME games, IMO.

[Sekondar]

Dragon Age doesn't really have the morality system or narrative in place for evil characters. Just like Mass Effect doesn't either.
My earlier post about SWTOR is an example of a game where the morality system and the narrative are both designed to accommodate and facilitate roleplaying an evil character and making evil choices.

You need the devs to be willing to create a morality system and the lore to justify evilness. The narratives and the protagonists are generally designed to be some kind of hero in DA and ME, not an outright villain. Inquisitor, Warden, Hawke and Shep can't justify just killing and electrocuting everyone they meet into submission, as satisfying as that might be, it does not fit the narrative of those games. But when you are playing as a Sith Lord, then it works beautifully. Sith lords feed off of anger and pain, so they physically get more powerful from their evil deeds, furthermore, their have the ideological justification of the Sith code.

Jade Empire had a pretty solid morality system and the lore to give players some good evil roleplaying. Being able to embrace the Closed Fist ideology is very similar to the sith code and ultimately the narrative gives the player the freedom to make meaningful evil choices throughout the entire game.

Sadly, I think Bioware has gotten away from evil, because somewhere along the line, they decided they don't want to let players become outright villains, they always want us to be some kind of hero. A really evil playthrough of KOTOR ended with the protagonist as a villain, an evil playthrough of Jade Empire ended with the protagonist as a villain, but the same really can't be said for DA or ME games, IMO.

To be fair, I was very satisfied with Origins in this regard. No, it didn't give me the option to tyranise Denerim, but my intentions could be plenty devious.

[IanPolaris]

To be fair, I was very satisfied with Origins in this regard. No, it didn't give me the option to tyranise Denerim, but my intentions could be plenty devious.

 

Indeed.  Yes in the end you had to defeat the Archdemon to save the world, but if you were a power hungry bastard you could leave a LOT of wreckage behind that very clearly affected not only the overall world but how you were regarded.  To some extent that was extended in DAA where your actions "saving the world" could lead to razing Amaranthine to the ground by your own hand.

[Mirth]

Spoiler alert!



If you are an elf, and do the war table missions wrong your ENTIRE CLAN is wiped out!! (Happened to me) and I had absolutely no recourse. I've got an army, lots of power and influence, a spy network and... nothing. Not even a "send nasty letter" option. I wanted to stop everything, March my warband up north and lay waste to those sobs. Hell - I wasn't even allowed to take my quizzy to the area and kill some derps. I was likely powerful enough to solo the area at the time. Instead, I got "your clan, mother, father, brothers sisters, friends....EVERYONE is now dead. Sucks to be you...."

Not happy... I may be a good guy, but... I'm still.. there should have been some action I could take to makeup for the loss of everything I loved. I didn't even get an opportunity to talk to anyone about it. Not even my lover Cullen. I got.. "your ENTIRE CLAN is dead.... so... what would you like for dinner inquisitor?"