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[IanPolaris]

Spoiler alert!



If you are an elf, and do the war table missions wrong your ENTIRE CLAN is wiped out!! (Happened to me) and I had absolutely no recourse. I've got an army, lots of power and influence, a spy network and... nothing. Not even a "send nasty letter" option. I wanted to stop everything, March my warband up north and lay waste to those sobs. Hell - I wasn't even allowed to take my quizzy to the area and kill some derps. I was likely powerful enough to solo the area at the time. Instead, I got "your clan, mother, father, brothers sisters, friends....EVERYONE is now dead. Sucks to be you...."

Not happy... I may be a good guy, but... I'm still.. there should have been some action I could take to makeup for the loss of everything I loved.

 

Not a big deal.  It was just another Dalish clan that looking down on their noses at everyone else while getting it all wrong, and your Elven inquisitor should have done them the favor of killing the clan himself and all Dalish just to put them out of their misery.  (Sarcasm alert)

 

Serioiusly, DAI (and TME) seem to delight in dumping and sliming the Dalish as often as possible and with as black a brush as possible.

[In Exile]

Indeed. Yes in the end you had to defeat the Archdemon to save the world, but if you were a power hungry bastard you could leave a LOT of wreckage behind that very clearly affected not only the overall world but how you were regarded. To some extent that was extended in DAA where your actions "saving the world" could lead to razing Amaranthine to the ground by your own hand.

The idea that a "power hungry" person would want wreckage is idiotic. You're getting the opposite of power at that point. Power hungry people want power, which is stability with them at the head. Vivenne is power hungry. Anora is power hungry. Celene is power hungry. None of them break stuff for the sake of breaking it. Even Gaspard - who is the most violent of the lot - will immediately reign everyone in when he has the chance.

You can leave a lot of wreckage in DAO but it's not about power because those choices give you the opposite.

[In Exile]

No you dont, you get to confirm certain peramiters of yourself that Leliana as shared with 3 Amigos, nothing morre nothing less.

That's exactly what you get to do in ME. You have a predefined parameter and you can give your reaction/explanation to it. DAI goes further and gives more choice because you have a say in what those events were in the box you're put in unlike ME.

[Sekondar]

Spoiler alert!



If you are an elf, and do the war table missions wrong your ENTIRE CLAN is wiped out!! (Happened to me) and I had absolutely no recourse. I've got an army, lots of power and influence, a spy network and... nothing. Not even a "send nasty letter" option. I wanted to stop everything, March my warband up north and lay waste to those sobs. Hell - I wasn't even allowed to take my quizzy to the area and kill some derps. I was likely powerful enough to solo the area at the time. Instead, I got "your clan, mother, father, brothers sisters, friends....EVERYONE is now dead. Sucks to be you...."

Not happy... I may be a good guy, but... I'm still.. there should have been some action I could take to makeup for the loss of everything I loved. I didn't even get an opportunity to talk to anyone about it. Not even my lover Cullen. I got.. "your ENTIRE CLAN is dead.... so... what would you like for dinner inquisitor?"

Seriously? I had no idea, actually. Only played as a Trevelyan. This isn't even necesarilly related to being evil, but this is really weird.

[Il Divo]

Honestly, my background in ME felt largely pointless. I got a single bland quest from it and an occasional token mention in the background "Hey Commander, remember Torfan?" 

 

I remember somebody a while back saying ME3 should have opened up with a DA:O style where you get to play through the background you chose in ME1. Now that would have been memorable. 

[JackPoint]

That's exactly what you get to do in ME. You have a predefined parameter and you can give your reaction/explanation to it. DAI goes further and gives more choice because you have a say in what those events were in the box you're put in unlike ME.

All i got was josey asking what i did in the carta, it wasnt a back story interview,to me it was a acopy n paste right from ME when you evolve on the ship at the start.

[Mirth]

Seriously? I had no idea, actually. Only played as a Trevelyan. This isn't even necesarilly related to being evil, but this is really weird.

Not really evil, no, but I was thinking more of a Anakin wiping out sandpeople in revenge for killing his mother, sorta way.
You just aren't allowed to react at all, and nobody says a word.

[Sekondar]

The idea that a "power hungry" person would want wreckage is idiotic. You're getting the opposite of power at that point. Power hungry people want power, which is stability with them at the head. Vivenne is power hungry. Anora is power hungry. Celene is power hungry. None of them break stuff for the sake of breaking it. Even Gaspard - who is the most violent of the lot - will immediately reign everyone in when he has the chance.

You can leave a lot of wreckage in DAO but it's not about power because those choices give you the opposite.

I agree, that's why I'm saying that I don't necessarily want chaotic evil. Only that it'd be cool to lack a conscience. I mean, I love playing a mage, who'd do anything for arcane power/knowledge. 

[Hazegurl]

Spoiler alert!



If you are an elf, and do the war table missions wrong your ENTIRE CLAN is wiped out!! (Happened to me) and I had absolutely no recourse. I've got an army, lots of power and influence, a spy network and... nothing. Not even a "send nasty letter" option. I wanted to stop everything, March my warband up north and lay waste to those sobs. Hell - I wasn't even allowed to take my quizzy to the area and kill some derps. I was likely powerful enough to solo the area at the time. Instead, I got "your clan, mother, father, brothers sisters, friends....EVERYONE is now dead. Sucks to be you...."

Not happy... I may be a good guy, but... I'm still.. there should have been some action I could take to makeup for the loss of everything I loved. I didn't even get an opportunity to talk to anyone about it. Not even my lover Cullen. I got.. "your ENTIRE CLAN is dead.... so... what would you like for dinner inquisitor?"

Yeah. I'm playing an elf right now. I don't think I got that war table mission yet but that is so bogus. Honestly, I'm almost inclined to believe that the IQ is a Tranquil no matter the class.

 

I agree, that's why I'm saying that I don't necessarily want chaotic evil. Only that it'd be cool to lack a conscience. I mean, I love playing a mage, who'd do anything for arcane power/knowledge.

 

Or a mage who will do anything for arcane knowledge, accept for honoring the wishes of the one who gave it to you. Chucking the stone with the spirit inside in DAO is cold.

[Sekondar]

Not really evil, no, but I was thinking more of a Anakin wiping out sandpeople in revenge for killing his mother, sorta way.
You just aren't allowed to react at all, and nobody says a word.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to play a good guy, who lost control like that. I'd love it, personally. 

[Sekondar]

Yeah. I'm playing an elf right now. I don't think I got that war table mission yet but that is so bogus. Honestly, I'm almost inclined to believe that the IQ is a Tranquil no matter the class.

Amen. I was a very posh, noble tranquil, with a very nice pajamas tho. 

[JackPoint]

Yeah. I'm playing an elf right now. I don't think I got that war table mission yet but that is so bogus. Honestly, I'm almost inclined to believe that the IQ is a Tranquil no matter the class.

Heh, i'd love to see them try make my dwarf a tranquil..My beard of doom will be very annoyed.

[IanPolaris]

The idea that a "power hungry" person would want wreckage is idiotic. You're getting the opposite of power at that point. Power hungry people want power, which is stability with them at the head. Vivenne is power hungry. Anora is power hungry. Celene is power hungry. None of them break stuff for the sake of breaking it. Even Gaspard - who is the most violent of the lot - will immediately reign everyone in when he has the chance.

You can leave a lot of wreckage in DAO but it's not about power because those choices give you the opposite.

 

I can think of some good reasons.  One way to get power is to make sure that no one else has power (and to remove the power of those that do).  That involves a fair amount of wreckage normally.

[Sekondar]

I can think of some good reasons.  One way to get power is to make sure that no one else has power (and to remove the power of those that do).  That involves a fair amount of wreckage normally.

Yeah, and as long as you're the strongest man left standing... Well. 

[JackPoint]

I can think of some good reasons.  One way to get power is to make sure that no one else has power (and to remove the power of those that do).  That involves a fair amount of wreckage normally.

Like invade Orlais and slouch on two thrones, hell it beats being stuck in the frostbacks freezing your nads off.

[chomesoon74]

I never understand why people want to role play as villains in games where your the hero? The worst you can be is a anti hero or a lawful evil villain,but never a chaotic evil villain. It mostly depends on the game's story. In cases such as the fantasy/rpg version of GTA aka TES story matters little if not at all since game play is what people care. Does it make sense the PC is a so called chosen one/hero while being a always chaotic evil psycho,and leader of every guild? Doesn't matter.

Then again choices are cosmetic most of the time(unless the fan-base agrees on things) since games are about power fantasies, hence the reason we buy them.

Did you ever play Knights of the Old Republic? There is a bioware game that actually gives you choice. I played an evil Sith Lord, killed half my group because they refused to follow me. I was allowed to be so evil that I could take control of the wookee to kill his best friend for me. Those are the types of games Bioware used to make before all the writers became SJW's.

[Sekondar]

Did you ever play Knights of the Old Republic? There is a bioware game that actually gives you choice. I played an evil Sith Lord, killed half my group because they refused to follow me. I was allowed to be so evil that I could take control of the wookee to kill his best friend for me. Those are the types of games Bioware used to make before all the writers became SJW's.

KOTOR dark side playthrough was a blast, if not really what I want. I mean, it's a bit too one-dimensional. Felt like you either had to be all good, or all evil, otherwise you'd be locked out of too many force powers. 

[Farangbaa]

Did you ever play Knights of the Old Republic? There is a bioware game that actually gives you choice. I played an evil Sith Lord, killed half my group because they refused to follow me. I was allowed to be so evil that I could take control of the wookee to kill his best friend for me. Those are the types of games Bioware used to make before all the writers became SJW's.

Well that's really spectacular, playing as an evil Sith Lord.

[In Exile]

I can think of some good reasons. One way to get power is to make sure that no one else has power (and to remove the power of those that do). That involves a fair amount of wreckage normally.

No, it doesn't. While breaking the power structure is always necessary to take power, we're back to the self-defeating stupid evil proposition of setting a house on fire so that you can move in to it.

There's nothing you can do in DAO that actually upsets the balance in a meaningful way besides what you do with the Landsmeet.

[IanPolaris]

No, it doesn't. While breaking the power structure is always necessary to take power, we're back to the self-defeating stupid evil proposition of setting a house on fire so that you can move in to it.

There's nothing you can do in DAO that actually upsets the balance in a meaningful way besides what you do with the Landsmeet.

 

You are conflating crazy chaotic evil with just evil, and you are also forgetting your history.  History is full of people who rose to power during times of strife often by AIDING that strife in their opponents and enemies.  Indeed Ghengis Khan was nortorious for giving enemy cities one and only one chance to surrender.  If they didn't, that city was utterly annihilated....and Ghengis Khan forged the largest and most powerful Empire the world had ever seen to that point.

 

In DAO, you can leave a LOT of wreckage behind if you want to.  You simply don't want to admit this because it diminishes DAI by comparison.

[Il Divo]

Did you ever play Knights of the Old Republic? There is a bioware game that actually gives you choice. I played an evil Sith Lord, killed half my group because they refused to follow me. I was allowed to be so evil that I could take control of the wookee to kill his best friend for me. Those are the types of games Bioware used to make before all the writers became SJW's.

 

Gives you choice? KotOR is my favorite Bioware game and I still find this questionable. It was a game of one dimensional morality where the only key choice is made about an hour before the game's climax and gives the player the ability to completely backtrack on any moral decisions they may have made prior to that point. You can murder every npc you come across, but because you decide to refuse Bastila's offer, suddenly you're a neutral gray jedi. Not to mention, playing an evil Sith Lord breaks the first 45 hours of the game narrative. 

 

People talk about all these older Bioware games like they were magic paragons of narrative and choices and consequences, but games like KotOR, BG1, and Neverwinter Nights were atrocious in some of these departments. Really, Bioware games have been all over the place in a lot of these areas. 

[In Exile]

You are conflating crazy chaotic evil with just evil, and you are also forgetting your history. History is full of people who rose to power during times of strife often by AIDING that strife in their opponents and enemies. Indeed Ghengis Khan was nortorious for giving enemy cities one and only one chance to surrender. If they didn't, that city was utterly annihilated....and Ghengis Khan forged the largest and most powerful Empire the world had ever seen to that point.

In DAO, you can leave a LOT of wreckage behind if you want to. You simply don't want to admit this because it diminishes DAI by comparison.

You're misunderstanding history, particularly in the difference between military subjugation and conquest and a coup d'etat by one individual in the absence of a standing, loyal army. The Warden has no military might. At most you might say the werewolves would follow you beyond the blight but that's it. You have no political standing to claim power anywhere beside as a dwarf or HN. As a dwarf you *can't* destabilise Orzammar. And nothing you do in Ferelden destabilises it; you do the opposite.

You can certainly cause petty pain and suffering in DAO but you're not even scuffing the paint on major institutions.

[JackPoint]

Gives you choice? KotOR is my favorite Bioware game and I still find this questionable. It was a game of one dimensional morality where the only key choice is made about an hour before the game's climax and gives the player the ability to completely backtrack on any moral decisions they may have made prior to that point. You can murder every npc you come across, but because you decide to refuse Bastila's offer, suddenly you're a neutral gray jedi. Not to mention, playing an evil Sith Lord breaks the first 45 hours of the game narrative. 

 

People talk about all these older Bioware games like they were magic paragons of narrative and choices and consequences, but games like KotOR, BG1, and Neverwinter Nights were atrocious in some of these departments. Really, Bioware games have been all over the place in a lot of these areas. 

Indeed, Biowares morality compass spun like a top in everygame they had, even now in DAI the dialogue choices you decide on 90% of them don't fit the question the npc asked you about. Or they are so convoluted you end up walking away.

[IanPolaris]

You're misunderstanding history, particularly in the difference between military subjugation and conquest and a coup d'etat by one individual in the absence of a standing, loyal army. The Warden has no military might. At most you might say the werewolves would follow you beyond the blight but that's it. You have no political standing to claim power anywhere beside as a dwarf or HN. As a dwarf you *can't* destabilise Orzammar. And nothing you do in Ferelden destabilises it; you do the opposite.

 

You can certainly cause petty pain and suffering in DAO but you're not even scuffing the paint on major institutions.

 

If you are the strongest leader standing at the end of the blight, who's going to oppose you?  The army you gather in DAO is *more* than sufficient enough for this, and what do you think the Landsmeet was?  If you play your cards right, you can do an incredible amount of human wreckage in the Landsmeet so that you (the Warden) are the only real viable military leader left.....that is you can insure that Eamon is discredited, both Alistair and Logain are dead, and Anora is forced to give you lands and titles as well as marrying you.

 

Edit PS:  It's not just that, but you can break the Chantry's hold on the Mages, you can establish a new Dalish Kingdom, and more....some MAJOR changes in some major institutions in DAO.  So much so, that Bioware had to retcon most of it away.

 

 

 

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Vilegrim]

TIL that forcing the mages to serve you as, essentially, prisoners and slaves is not - to some people - "evil".

 

Here's the thing, there are no mustache twirling acts of evil in this game. Nor should there be. Every act you take, every single one, is based on the personality of your Inquisitor.

 

And who decides your Inquisitor's personality?

 

YOU. DO.

 

"Waaah, Hawke has a set personality! I hate it! I want a protagonist I can personalize!" "Okay, here you go." "Waaaah. I have to decide my Inquisitor's personality! I hate it! I can't be evil! Waaaaah!"

 

My elf Inquisitor was a ruthlessly evil woman who destabilized the shem power bases as best she could in an attempt to create a world of elf soverignty. Enslaving the mages? Evil, because that's what she wanted. Exiling the wardens? Evil. Assassinating Celene and putting Briala in power? Evil. 

 

Because that's who my Inquisitor was. Her entire motive was "**** the shemlen." 

 

For years these boards have been crying about wanting a blank slate protagonist. Well, the Inquisitor as is blank slate as you're going to get within the dialogue system Bioware is using. And now y'all are complaining that you have to actually RP your character.

 

Good lord. There's literally no way to win, is there?

 

 

 

And we got a blank slate, a blank slate only able to make LG or NG choices.