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[JackPoint]

That would've been even funnier. I believe in Father Kolgrim.

I know right, its the perfect comedy moment

[NUM13ER]

First drop the "stupid evil" there is no such thing.

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There's no such thing as being short-sightedly impulsive? That's what it means to be stupidly evil. That's what most of these "I wanna go round kicking puppies" threads revolve around. The idea that someone could frequently and openly commit horrific deeds at will, in front of countless witnesses, and still have anyone actually follow them.

Though still I look forward to a Dragon Age that allows a complete lack of pragmatism from all these villainous wannabes so that around half-way through the game, you're beset by an army and brutally murdered for being a monster. But these people expect to be tyrannical fools and untouchable all at once.

[Il Divo]

Example?

 

Pretty much any time you blatantly murder someone in a crowded street? Granted, this applies more to KotOR and Jade Empire where "I want to kill you sadistically" was much more prevalent. DA:O does have a few such instances like the merchant outside Lothering. 

[KaiserShep]

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There's no such thing as being short-sightedly impulsive? That's what it means to be stupidly evil. That's what most of these "I wanna go round kicking puppies" threads revolve around. The idea that someone could frequently and openly commit horrific deeds at will, in front of countless witnesses, and still have anyone actually follow them.

Though still I look forward to a Dragon Age that allows a complete lack of pragmatism from all these villainous wannabes so that around half-way through the game, you're beset by an army and brutally murdered for being a monster. But these people expect to be tyrannical fools and untouchable all at once.

 

That's what makes my evil-Warden playthrough only really good for one go and never again. It's amusing the first time, but once I've gotten it out of my system I can never do it again, because it's painfully obvious just how much you can get away with with little issue other than companions ending up just walking away at some point, and that's if I don't bribe them with gifts to keep them above hatred. If the game better reflected my off-the-wall stupidly-evilness, it would've been much more entertaining.

[Ieldra]

mostly likely it was dried up dragon shite, but sacred ash sounds better to tell as a story

Imagine if Genitivi published that as a result of his research.

[Sekondar]

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There's no such thing as being short-sightedly impulsive? That's what it means to be stupidly evil. That's what most of these "I wanna go round kicking puppies" threads revolve around. The idea that someone could frequently and openly commit horrific deeds at will, in front of countless witnesses, and still have anyone actually follow them.

Though still I look forward to a Dragon Age that allows a complete lack of pragmatism from all these villainous wannabes so that around half-way through the game, you're beset by an army and brutally murdered for being a monster. But these people expect to be tyrannical fools and untouchable all at once.

That's hardly what I described in this thread.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

There's no such thing as being short-sightedly impulsive? That's what it means to be stupidly evil. That's what most of these "I wanna go round kicking puppies" threads revolve around. The idea that someone could frequently and openly commit horrific deeds at will, in front of countless witnesses, and still have anyone actually follow them.

Though still I look forward to a Dragon Age that allows a complete lack of pragmatism from all these villainous wannabes so that around half-way through the game, you're beset by an army and brutally murdered for being a monster. But these people expect to be tyrannical fools and untouchable all at once.

yes, that! please! what happens if PC wins? can my PC finally become evil/mad/tyrant then? who says untouchable? the story makes him/her untouchable, if it's written to allow RP only one specific alignment, it's not very roleplayable, is it?

[Poison_Berrie]

Except that was not guaranteed, it played out that way, but no way of knowing that going in, hell putting Gaspard on the throne is a better power grab, he does need you more than Celene really should.

You aren't anymore assured that putting Gaspard on the throne will make him your pawn either.
That's a general issue with not knowing enough about you're candidates before you start the mission, though. Part of the mission is to gather dirt on all parties and make up your mind about the solution before the assassination. As nice as it would be to go in there with your manipulations planned, I don't think it would have played out better if you had all the dirt before hand.

That's just the structure of that mission. That said, the point was that you can certainly pull the "evil"-card and basically inform them they are working for you now.

 

I think the bigger issue is that there's little acknowledgement of these actions. But that's not just a matter of not catering to the evil play style, rather a more general reactivity issue.

 

That's hardly what I described in this thread.

But it's what several people here are calling for in terms of what they want. They want to play with the plot armour being the protagonist gives you.

 

I think that your issue is more related to the issue I called to above. There's a general lack of reactivity for most things that you do and the stuff that's there is often limited to a single conversation triggering.

[stonerbishop]

I want these so called "stupid evil options". I want the option to lock the doors to the winter palace and set the building on fire. I want to kill people because I can. If my followers want to rise up against me, so be it. If that leads to a game over and I have to start over, I'm OK with that. I just want the options.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, sorry pal you can't i've tried my damn best to be a tw@t, even had cassandra hate me become a drunk and threaten to leave. still ended up boning her in the smithy.Now she wont leave my dwarven schlong alone.

How is that relevant whether you can be evil?

Not all evil people are hated. Some are widely liked. But that doesn't make them less evil.

[KaiserShep]

I want these so called "stupid evil options". I want the option to lock the doors to the winter palace and set the building on fire. I want to kill people because I can. If my followers want to rise up against me, so be it. If that leads to a game over and I have to start over, I'm OK with that. I just want the options.

This is why truly open world games are the only ones that work like this, for the same reason I can just nuke some stupid little town in Fallout 3. Imagine being able to just massacre the people in the Winter Palace so you can cackle maniacally from the courtyard, then frolick into the woods and become the Mad Hermit Part Deux. How many more hours of gameplay could we devote to this trainwreck?

[stonerbishop]

I could devote days. Thing is you could do this in origins, Ala werewolves slaughter dalish

How about a reasonable option? In order to secure celenes throne, when you meet Briala in the servants quarters, you disembowel her right then, right there? Acceptable in a RP sense, no?

Honestly, I would be "satisfied" if I just had a torture chamber for all these prisoners I judge

Edit. Or make a deal with Gaspard to lock everyone in and burn the building. Celene, Briala, council of heralds. Gaspard would definitely be unopposed

I consider these evil. Not stupid evil but I will take what I can get

[Sylvius the Mad]

DAI is an adventure game, not a rpg. Choices are minor and dont affect gamplay. The main hint is the character creator, all is cosmetic, the class the player choose will play exactly the same as previous game or next door guy character.

There's a strong argument for this. I happen to enjoy DAI, but I'm willing to considerthe suggestion that it's an adventure game.

so every person who tell thats all is in nuances, that I have to suggest to myself or that I have to use my imagination. WAKE UP, its a video game. Nuances are good in a book, suggest to self is good for a dream and imagination is good for a table top game.

But not this.

The features that define a good roleplaying game don't change based on the medium. If the tabletop game allows for (and even requires) imagination, them so too should a CRPG. If you're not using your imagination to flesh out your character's personality, then any deficiencies in that personality are your fault, not BioWare's. It is BioWare's fault if the game prevents you from roleplaying (as I would argue DA2 and ME2 do), but I don't think DAI does that to anywhere near the same degree.

[stonerbishop]

This is why truly open world games are the only ones that work like this, for the same reason I can just nuke some stupid little town in Fallout 3. Imagine being able to just massacre the people in the Winter Palace so you can cackle maniacally from the courtyard, then frolick into the woods and become the Mad Hermit Part Deux. How many more hours of gameplay could we devote to this trainwreck?

even elder scrolls is moving away from this sadly. If I remember right (possibly not ) in morrow wind you could kill the main quest guy in the first villagee and never be able to complete the main story. Didn't end the game. Just could do those quests.

[stonerbishop]

I think the biggest issue I have is that they took those options away. If I didn't have them in previous games, I wouldn't know to miss them

[stonerbishop]

How is that relevant whether you can be evil?
Not all evil people are hated. Some are widely liked. But that doesn't make them less evil.

Indeed. A lot of people fawned over Hitler and I don't think anyone would argue his evil cred

Edit. Darth Vader might be a better example. People still love vader

[KaiserShep]

You know those random peons were loving it when Vader force-choked their a-hole bosses.

[Ieldra]

The features that define a good roleplaying game don't change based on the medium. If the tabletop game allows for (and even requires) imagination, them so too should a CRPG. If you're not using your imagination to flesh out your character's personality, then any deficiencies in that personality are your fault, not BioWare's. It is BioWare's fault if the game prevents you from roleplaying (as I would argue DA2 and ME2 do), but I don't think DAI does that to anywhere near the same degree.

Indeed so. I'd like to add that it is of course desirable to have many options for explicit characterization, but it's not a requirement, especially not for nuanced character traits, as long as one of the options we get is compatible with what we imagine.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Indeed. A lot of people fawned over Hitler and I don't think anyone would argue his evil cred

Edit. Darth Vader might be a better example. People still love vader

I would argue that Vader is actually the hero of Star Wars.

[Ieldra]

I would argue that Vader is actually the hero of Star Wars.

At the risk of derailing this thread, do you mind explaining why you think so?

[Il Divo]

Indeed so. I'd like to add that it is of course desirable to have many options for explicit characterization, but it's not a requirement, especially not for nuanced character traits, as long as one of the options we get is compatible with what we imagine.

 

Makes sense. Your thoughts are never expressed in game, only your words (which may or may not correspond). 

 

What happens if you're playing a character concept which, quite literally, cannot be expressed in words, only in their heads? Something like an evil character trying to masquerade as a hero/benevolent leader. 

[stonerbishop]

Yeah he is definitely avillain. He murders a temple full of children
::stonerbishop sighs wistfully

[KaiserShep]

Yeah he is definitely avillain. He murders a temple full of children
::stonerbishop sighs wistfully

They were younglings, not children, so it's OK.

[Hazegurl]

And isn't that the very definition of a stupidly evil mindset: if they aren't useful for you, they can be killed with impunity, because this could never have any bad repercussions?

No one cares about city elves. Or elves period. No noble at the landsmeet cares about them and no one in Thedas besides other city elves care for them. This is why that noble was able to rape his way through that little area. The Couslands are one of the highest noble houses in Fereldan. Yeah, not seeing the repercussions there. And being a special snowflake PC has nothing to do with it. The world sets it up for my noble to do whatever he wants to them.

[Hazegurl]

I never quite got why there as such a big objection to what Genitivi proposes, or why anyone thinks he deserves to die. I mean, how is Genitivi any different from people who excavate sacred burial grounds, ancient tombs and the pyramids? That the ashes may have healing properties doesn't really change anything, and until you actually get it to Eamon, you're not 100% certain about that anyway. It would have been hilarious if the Guardian was basically defending an urn full of regular ashes that couldn't do anything at all, and Eamon just died.

 

As for the city elves, that this is a matter of how they can or cannot help you at the Landsmeet pretty much makes my point. You're basically letting an evil wizard murder helpless people to slightly augment your own life force. I think what I find most amusing is that Leliana automatically freaks out if you taint the ashes, but no one does jack squat when you let some sinister Vint perform an insidious blood ritual before them.

I think that is a big problem because people tend to eventually trash everything they get their hands on, and I say this as a person who sometimes destroy the ashes for powerz.  And just look at what people did and still sort of do to ancient tombs et al. People raided them for gold and artifacts, stole bones to sell and grind into powders. Some of the Egyptian royals still can't be found. There are probably some ancient Egyptian royal's bones sitting in some rich guy's basement right now because of that.  So yeah, never thought it was a brilliant idea and sure enough look what happens anyway. A dragon kills a bunch of people and destroys the ashes anyway. And if the Dragon didn't do it then the explosion in DA3 did it because the Divine thought it was a good idea to have a conclave there.

 

Besides, I'm with Ryzaki on stealing those ashes. I wouldn't have listened to that Guardian or Genitivi. I would've taken that whole urn. If they turned out to be fake, oh well. I would laugh about it and keep moving. Taegan takes over for Eamon anyway and Anora still would have needed to be rescued from the castle, and would have sent her servant out for help.

 

Of course no one does anything about those elves, they're elves. Since when has anyone cared about them in DA? And Leliana is cold-hearted anyway, she just wants/pretends to be a good person. But she is very religious so I can see her picking her battles.