The reason is that the qunari are against it. This is a test of loyalty - for you and for the IB. Will you sacrifice your men for their sake?
Screw the Qunari - don't even need my damn army to roflstomp those 4-5 tevinter and save the boat and the Chargers.
Yay, working as a spy for the Qunari, life dream accomplished
There is no Venatori attack on Denerim if you save the Charges, btw, not a whisper of it afaik.
Thats just the way the game responds to your actions. Like for instance if you recruit the mages but don't send the Chargers to Therinfall Redoubt then you never see or hear about the Envy Demon
Hell the Venatori are EVERYWHERE based on the Qunari intel from Orlais, Ferelden, Nevarra and even inside the Inquistion itself. I'd say the alliance is worth it but only if you side with the Templars
Yay, working as a spy for the Qunari, life dream accomplished
It seems like the Qunari hold the Inquisitor in high esteem during the Qunari alliance, which is mentioned by Tallis. It also seems like Tallis or Iron Bull may be the next Arquin.
There is no Venatori attack on Denerim if you save the Charges, btw, not a whisper of it afaik.
I know it only happens when you ally with the Qunari, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't happen otherwise.
Do not speak Qun
Do not trust Qun
Kill Qun
Qun = BAD
Thats just the way the game responds to your actions. Like for instance if you recruit the mages but don't send the Chargers to Therinfall Redoubt then you never see or hear about the Envy Demon
I might be mistaken but you get to learn about Envy Demon in Cassndra's quest.
At any rate the so called alliance Qunari are proposing is not an alliance between equal partners, it's an alliance on their terms. The way I see it there are many benefit to not ally yourself with Qunari (you get to know who were Qunari spies for instance).
It seems like the Qunari hold the Inquisitor in high esteem during the Qunari alliance, which is mentioned by Tallis. It also seems like Tallis or Iron Bull may be the next Arquin.
Ben-Hassrath is a role under the Qun, if you listen to IB it means "liar" and IB indirectly implies that the title is not all that flattering and from what I'm reading on wiki "Basalit-an" is a worthy foe, that's one really peculiar way to view someone you ally.
I know it only happens when you ally with the Qunari, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't happen otherwise.
Because it's a test, because this quest is also about hardening/softening IB, if you ally yourself with Qun, IB will eventually betray you, because his first loyalty will be to Qun, if not - he will turn away from Qun for good.
Letting Iron Bull join the inquisition in the first place is a huge mistake. The guy said outright that he's a spy and a good one at that. Talking to Iron bull shows you that he's real good at reading people.
Keep you friends close, but your enemies closer.
The reason is that the qunari are against it. This is a test of loyalty - for you and for the IB. Will you sacrifice your men for their sake?
Sorry but I don't have time for the qun's test. THE WORLD IS ENDING. I 'm not here to be tested by anyone.
Ben-Hassrath is a role under the Qun, if you listen to IB it means "liar" and IB indirectly implies that the title is not all that flattering and from what I'm reading on wiki "Basalit-an" is a worthy foe, that's one really peculiar way to view someone you ally.
We know that Tallis and Iron Bull are spies, which involves deception. As for Basalit-an, it means "worthy of respect"; it's why the Arishok will negotiate with Hawke if he's earned his respect, and why even Tallis will have a high opinion of the Champion.
Because it's a test, because this quest is also about hardening/softening IB, if you ally yourself with Qun, IB will eventually betray you, because his first loyalty will be to Qun, if not - he will turn away from Qun for good.
You may have misunderstood me, because that doesn't address my comment about why the Venatori isn't mentioned attacking Denerim if the Inquisitor doesn't ally with the Qunari.
You may have misunderstood me, because that doesn't address my comment about why the Venatori isn't mentioned attacking Denerim if the Inquisitor doesn't ally with the Qunari.
Since the game doesn't say that Denerim burns if you don't ally with Qun (and if it's not a bug), I'm inclined to think that the Qunari on purpose let the Venatory attack Denerim to rescue it later as a gesture of "good will", to show the deluded IQ that they are "friends". They are not very honest folks to begin with.
As for "worthy of respect" it still seems to be tied to "worthy of respect foe/opponent" unless I'm misreading something. And like I said becoming spy for Qunari is not an equal partnership thing, far from it.
Since the game doesn't say that Denerim burns if you don't ally with Qun (and if it's not a bug), I'm inclined to think that the Qunari on purpose let the Venatory attack Denerim to rescue it later as a gesture of "good will", to show the
deludedIQ that they are "friends". They are not very honest folks to begin with.
If you've played the Qunari alliance, then you realize that you can stop the Venatori from attacking Denerim with the assistance of the Qunari. If the Qunari don't provide any assistance from stopping the Venatori, then I don't see why their attack on Denerim wouldn't happen.
As for "worthy of respect" it still seems to be tied to "worthy of respect foe/opponent" unless I'm misreading something. And like I said becoming spy for Qunari is not an equal partnership thing, far from it.
They aren't necessarily enemies; the new Arishok (formerly Sten) declares King Alistair basalit-an before helping him against the Tevinter mages who are under the command of Aurelian Titus.
I don't see why their attack on Denerim wouldn't happen.
Because it's not mentioned anywhere by anyone. Denerim is pretty important city to not hear news about it.
Allying with the qun and then making the wrong choice on a follow-up War table quest gets Denerim burned to the ground by the Venatori.
That attack never happens at all if you save the Chargers.
So, no, to the Qun, because clearly they're the cause of that attack.
(Derp. Obviously, they're not, but internal consistency demands that they must be--or Denerim would still be attacked even if you save the Chargers--and it'd be more likely because you don't have the Qun's information to make the "correct" choice to prevent it).
ETA: heh, that's what I get for not reading page 2 before posting. I agree with ThreeF, above.
Modifié par Bethgael, 17 janvier 2015 - 11:48 .
Because it's not mentioned anywhere by anyone. Denerim is pretty important city to not hear news about it.
That doesn't actually address what I said, which was why the Venatori wouldn't attack Denerim if the Inquisitor wasn't allied with the Qunari, since the attack can only be stopped with Qunari assistance.
Well, for Denerim - clearly the answer is the Ventori changed tactics to combat the "alliance", obviously feeling the need to be a bit more aggressive in response. Also, I would say that without the Qunari there to muck up the operations, the assault force was probably handled just fine in another area before they ever got Denerim.
Ironically, its probably the Chargers that took them out... just saying 
Well, for Denerim - clearly the answer is the Ventori changed tactics to combat the "alliance", obviously feeling the need to be a bit more aggressive in response. Also, I would say that without the Qunari there to muck up the operations, the assault force was probably handled just fine in another area before they ever got Denerim.
Ironically, its probably the Chargers that took them out... just saying
Yeah that's also another possibility. In the end of the day Demands of the Qun are fishy at best.
That doesn't actually address what I said, which was why the Venatori wouldn't attack Denerim if the Inquisitor wasn't allied with the Qunari, since the attack can only be stopped with Qunari assistance.
It does, I'm not sure how I can word it differently. Last attempt: if you don't ally with Qunari, the attack does not occurs, there is nothing to stop. Something happens that makes the Venatori to not attack or they attack but nothing bad happens.
Modifié par ThreeF, 17 janvier 2015 - 11:59 .
It does, I'm not sure how I can word it differently. Last attempt: if you don't ally with Qunari, the attack does not occurs, there is nothing to stop.
Which I've already acknowledged, but that doesn't mean it actually makes any sense, since the questline when you're allied with the Qunari concerns dealing with threats that are already in motion (with the assistance of the Qunari spy network).
Which I've already acknowledged, but that doesn't mean it actually makes any sense, since the questline when you're allied with the Qunari concerns dealing with threats that are already in motion (with the assistance of the Qunari spy network).
So say the Qunari spy network, many things could have happen.
1)Qunari might have caused attack themselves.
2)Qunari on purpose let Venatory attack Denerim so they could say that they helped to save it
3)Qunari had no choice but to deal with Venatory themselves
4)Denerim managed to deal with the issue itself without Qunari
fact is it we don't hear about Denerim burning to the ground
So say the Qunari spy network, many things could have happen.
1)Qunari might have caused attack themselves.
2)Qunari on purpose let Venatory attack Denerim so they could say that they helped to save it
3)Qunari had no choice but to deal with Venatory themselves
4)Denerim managed to deal with the issue itself without Qunari
fact is it we don't hear about Denerim burning to the ground
It took a Qunari dreadnought to deal with the Venatori who planned to attack Denrim, so I'm curious to learn how they dealt with the Venatori without Qunari assistance.
It took a Qunari dreadnought to deal with the Venatori who planned to attack Denrim, so I'm curious to learn how they dealt with the Venatori without Qunari assistance.
Me too!
I don't get why the Chargers couldn't deal with such a paltry amount of Venatori. They were supposed to be the best, it just wasn't believable at all. Meh, I just wish I could have taken the alliance but saved the Dalish mage who's not a mage. I didn't like that the decision was mine, it didn't feel right.
I don't get why the Chargers couldn't deal with such a paltry amount of Venatori. They were supposed to be the best, it just wasn't believable at all. Meh, I just wish I could have taken the alliance but saved the Dalish mage who's not a mage. I didn't like that the decision was mine, it didn't feel right.
Technically speaking, Inquisitor Lavellan (if he was a mage) could have used Dalish magic to travel through the earth to reach the Venatori before they even reached the Chargers, as we've seen Velanna and Merrill use this magic in the past. According to WoT: "Their spells have evolved to be deeply rooted in nature, manipulating earthly forces with a heavy emphasis on herbalism and healing." (page 104)
which would you care more about, reading a footnote in a newspaper about a village of people in a country you've never heard of being killed by a hurricane or your mom getting hit by a car and dying in front of you? Not to mention that un named village contains real people vs a game where a footnote is just a footnote.
IB lays it out for you. Leader is not the strongest, and not the smartest, it's the one who can live with the consequences of his decisions. So if you run into deranged, deformed slaves in DA4, you can console yourself with the knowledge that at least Krem and Dalish lives (maybe.)
But then, Bioware were never good at handling consequences.
The whole mission feels silly, from the improbable setup, the ME2 Collector raid on the Normandy style way you take all your best men along one route, and just send the Chargers along the other, the fact that the Chargers have only got what... 2 fighters or something, for a mercenary company. The rest are various specialists who don't really belong in front line fighting, or at least not as the main combat force of a leg of the operation.
Plus the Qunari are supposed to be good at tactics and naval warfare particularly. They have decades upon decades of experience fighting Tevinter forces, yet they choose a completely inappropriate class of ship for the operation (because you can make the point that surely catching them at sea would be less risky - but the Qunari have brought a slow, heavy ship when a lighter, faster vessel would have been much more useful).
Plus there is the simple fact that no plan survives contact with the enemy. Surely you would agree some kind of abort signal, if the area couldn't be secured. If its a choice between letting this one ship get away, and losing a dreadnaught full of men then is it really worth the sacrifice? Its not like they were carrying Death Star plans or anything... Its just hard to imagine either the Qunari or the Inquisition coming up with such a weak plan.
The Qunari give you ships. You NEVER need ships in the story. So I say why bother?
Because you're really not getting into the spirit of roleplaying by using that 'Its a game' attitude?
May we not assume that when Iron Bull says the navy is doing a good job of containing the Venatori, that this means they are doing something useful? Just because we don't see our various assets being used, doesn't mean they aren't actually being deployed, And yes, it would be better to see them but hey, take that up with Bioware...
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