62 réponses à ce sujet

[holdenagincourt]

Ben-Hassrath is a role under the Qun, if you listen to IB it means "liar" and IB indirectly implies that the title is not all that flattering

 

It is not Ben-Hassrath that means "liar". That's Hissrad, Iron Bull's specific title with the Ben-Hassrath.

[ThreeF]

It is not Ben-Hassrath that means "liar". That's Hissrad, Iron Bull's specific title with the Ben-Hassrath.

 

Oh yes, oops

[Rowan]

We know from Sten that the Qunari don't negotiate. Alliance? Treaty? Just a piece of paper.

[b10d1v]

I found a sequence bug (quest instability) if you rush to get the Master Archon staff.  This happens when you have charger missions active on the war table and take Bull's personal quest to kill them and the milestone save prevents backing up if you realize the mistake.  What happens next is erratic war table timers and the game performance suffers other random effects.  While random effects may take on various different effects, in this case the war table quests were preempted causing a fault in the RPG event timers for the war table.

 

Bioware could fix this simply by forcing a delay in Bull's quest until these active quests are completed.

[Chashan]

Because it's not mentioned anywhere by anyone. Denerim is pretty important city to not hear news about it.

 

And what makes it any less likely that the Venatori, without interference by Qunari and Inquisition intelligence, were able to execute their plan in such a way that, by and large, it is assumed that Denerim fell prey to an ordinary outbreak of fire, rather than arson by the Venatori's hands?

 

In a situation where civil wars and a rift are seen as the threats on most people's minds, I doubt that what may appear to be a blaze in some far-off dog-lord backwater would interest people overly much. Let's not forget that fire-fighting methods are probably not that thorough and thus blazes can be assumed to be quite a common occurence in Thedas's setting. And let's also not forget that, as far as the Inquisition is concerned, Denerim is somewhere on the periphery - bluntly put, we never even go there directly, and the Fereldan monarchy, whoever is at its head, seems quite fine with keeping the Inquisition out of its direct court business, as well as general matters of security and keeping order which they probably would view what appears as a blaze as.

 

To put it differently: absence of evidence in this case really does not make for a convincing case that it does not happen at all.

 

 

Allying with the qun and then making the wrong choice on a follow-up War table quest gets Denerim burned to the ground by the Venatori.

 

That attack never happens at all if you save the Chargers.

So, no, to the Qun, because clearly they're the cause of that attack.

 

(Derp. Obviously, they're not, but internal consistency demands that they must be--or Denerim would still be attacked even if you save the Chargers--and it'd be more likely because you don't have the Qun's information to make the "correct" choice to prevent it).

 

ETA: heh, that's what I get for not reading page 2 before posting. I agree with ThreeF, above.

 

Good to see that you realize why this can very well be seen as faulty reasoning.

 

 

To the OP: The way the mission is presented as is, it is never convincingly suggested that the entirety of the company is committed to the operation even before the Arbor WIlds. Its' impact is supposed to be your potentially allowing mercenaries who you and Hissrad know by name and who you shared drinks with to carry out their objective to the bitter end.

 

It could also be argued that, after Arbor WIlds, Corypheus may not actually prove that great a menace anymore to go and try striking an alliance with the Qun, given that his two Grand Schemes of the demon army and assassination of the Orlesian Empress are foiled by this time.

[ThreeF]

Good to see that you realize why this can very well be seen as faulty reasoning.

 

Everybody is realizing it.

[AshenEndymion]

We know from Sten that the Qunari don't negotiate. Alliance? Treaty? Just a piece of paper.

 

'Negotiation' and 'an Alliance/treaty' are two entirely different things...  If you noticed, there was no negotiation with the Qunari in DAI.  You either agreed to their terms, or you didn't.  But, if you agreed to the terms, there is an alliance between Inquisition forces and the Qunari.

 

It's almost certain that, when the Qunari no longer see the benefit in the alliance, they'd send an emissary to the Inquisition with the terms required to continue said alliance("one worthy of respect" would likely be afforded such a measure).  But there would be no negotiation on those terms, either.

 

If anything, the Qun would likely treat a treaty/alliance with another nation with more respect than any other nation of Thedas would(hello, Orlais), because it's so unusual...

[DuskWanderer]

They can't be trusted. Even if they could be considered Basalit-an, they would revoke it the second the Inquisition came between them and something they wanted.

[AshenEndymion]

They can't be trusted. Even if they could be considered Basalit-an, they would revoke it the second the Inquisition came between them and something they wanted.

 

And?  Orlais has done the same thing.  Numerous times.  So has every nation.  The Qunari, as a nation, can be trusted as much as any other one.  If you trust Celene/Gaspard to honor their alliance with the Inquisition after Corypheus is killed, then there's little reason to distrust the Qunari...

 

And it's far more likely that the Qunari would tell you that the alliance is over, prior to acting against your interests, rather than any other nation...

[Thargorichiban]

And?  Orlais has done the same thing.  Numerous times.  So has every nation.  The Qunari, as a nation, can be trusted as much as any other one.  If you trust Celene/Gaspard to honor their alliance with the Inquisition after Corypheus is killed, then there's little reason to distrust the Qunari...

 

And it's far more likely that the Qunari would tell you that the alliance is over, prior to acting against your interests, rather than any other nation...

 

Very good point there.

[Amorl]

And?  Orlais has done the same thing.  Numerous times.  So has every nation.  The Qunari, as a nation, can be trusted as much as any other one.  If you trust Celene/Gaspard to honor their alliance with the Inquisition after Corypheus is killed, then there's little reason to distrust the Qunari...

 

And it's far more likely that the Qunari would tell you that the alliance is over, prior to acting against your interests, rather than any other nation...

your projecting your own feelings on the Qunari, there is no possible way for you to have any statistics nor experience on what they are likely to do.  It would be impossible for anyone outside of Bioware to be able to determine that or even give an informed opinion.

 

Second we know NOTHING about the terms of the alliance.  all we know is that they will share some information.  Their forces and agents could still be tracking and killing Venatori irregardless of the alliance as they pose a serious threat to them.  Like I said an alliance works both ways and we never see what they want in return,  so we can't know the cost of it.  Where as our Alliance with Orlais is up to the player to decide.  Want Orlais as a vassal, sure blackmail everyone, want a friendly partner who has to rely on the quizzy to stay in power there you go.  There isn't even a guarantee that there is an alliance with the Qunari.  For all we know the Ben - hassarath has cooked up this entire scheme using only resources that were made available to them.  It's not like leaders or even formal ambassadors ever get together. just back door deals.

 

Third the Qunari are an alien (as in different and near impossible for us players to understand) entity, Orlais is not.  We do not go to Seheron or Qunandar.  We do not operate in their country.  We have no operatives or ambassador to them.  The inquisition has exactly 1 member who has lived there and at least shares some form of understanding.  On the other hand we have a good base of experience in which to detail how Orlais will handle our overlapping spheres of influence.  From Ferelden, to Templars, to Mages, to the Chantry, to the Free Marches.  This does not mean they will share and agree with all our goals and reasoning, but we and the Inquisition will be dealing with a known quantity when handling and treating with Orlais.  We understand their motivations, their goals, and even live and operate within their boarders with the inquisition made up of their citizens.

 

Fourth and finally the new divine is either a founding member of the inquisition or someone who has close ties with it.  This ties us closely to the authority and belief structure of Orlais we have zero such ties with the Qunari.

[ThreeF]

Fourth and finally the new divine is either a founding member of the inquisition or someone who has close ties with it.  This ties us closely to the authority and belief structure of Orlais we have zero such ties with the Qunari.

 

Plus with you having such ties basically gives Qunari a lot of access to some very important places and people if you ally with them, which is a very bad position to be in.

[AshenEndymion]

your projecting your own feelings on the Qunari, there is no possible way for you to have any statistics nor experience on what they are likely to do.  It would be impossible for anyone outside of Bioware to be able to determine that or even give an informed opinion.

You are right that there are no facts about the Qunari. But there are facts about Orlais, coming from the History of Thedas. And it seems incredibly hypocritical to say that the Orlais government is trustworthy when history indicates the opposite, while saying the Qunari government can't be trusted when there is no real evidence one way or the other...
 

Second we know NOTHING about the terms of the alliance.

 
We actually know everything about the terms of the Alliance with the Qunari.  It was spelled out rather clearly:  Show the Qunari that the Inquisition is capable of working with them by assisting in the destruction of a Venatori attempt to smuggle Red Lyrium out of the Storm Coast, and the Qunari will give the Inquisition information on Venatori Agents, as well as assist in the destruction of Venatori operations in Southern Thedas using Qunari spies and ships in conjunction with the Inquisition's spies and troops.
 
The Qunari get the Venatori destroyed in Southern Thedas without having to use their resources, and the Inquisition gets a better grasp of how and where the Venatori are operating and assistance in destroying them.   There is nothing more to that alliance, and nothing less.  One can claim that the terms aren't beneficial to the Inquisition(I disagree on this point), but it can't be claimed that the terms of the Alliance aren't spelled out.
 
 

There isn't even a guarantee that there is an alliance with the Qunari.  For all we know the Ben - hassarath has cooked up this entire scheme using only resources that were made available to them.  It's not like leaders or even formal ambassadors ever get together. just back door deals.

 
There isn't a guarantee of an alliance(in any capacity) with Orlais either...  Unless you're saying "we see cooperation with Orlais, thus there is an alliance", but the same statement can apply to the Qunari alliance.  And yes, it is just a backdoor deal with the Qunari.  But if Gatt weren't allowed to offer it, then he also wouldn't have been able to declare Hissrad Tal-Vashoth.  Which makes the backdoor deal no different from whatever deal made in private between the Inquisitor and Celene/Gaspard/Briala.  None of the details are public beyond "we're working together", which is exactly the same as it is with the Qunari.

 

 

Plus with you having such ties basically gives Qunari a lot of access to some very important places and people if you ally with them, which is a very bad position to be in.

 

You say this as though the Qunari need an alliance with the Inquisition to infiltrate or otherwise gain access to the Chantry, or the Inquisition, to begin with...