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[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Allright I don't get 1 little thing about Cory and his travels. Please feel free to take part in discussion.

 

1. Corypheus was slayed by Hawke in my playthrough in DA2 DLC "Legacy".

2. It is presumed that his 'soul' transferred from his dead body to Larius.

3, After that Cory somehow gets his old half-metal giant magemachine looks again.

 

Morrigan confession on the ritual

 

and

 

"In Darkness eternal they searched,
For those who had goaded them on,
Until at last they found their prize,
Their god, their betrayer:
The sleeping dragon Dumat. Their taint
Twisted even the false-god, and the whisperer
Awoke at last, in pain and horror, and led
Them to wreak havoc upon all the nations of the world:
The first Blight."

--Threnodies 8:7

 

 

So what do we get there?

 

1. Archdemon is basically an unusual sleeping dragon, which were worshipped in Tevinter Imperium of Old (before the Blights). Sleeping dragon is awakened by darkspawn and gets tainted by them. AD, however, has the Soul of Old God - some essence that can be transfered to another host.

 

2. Archdemon starts a Blight. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Blightand this is how it works. There can't be an archdemon without a horde, it's the taint itself that causes Old God to become AD and start a Blight.

 

3. Corypheus is tainted, he is a darkspawn.

 

4. No matter how powerful darkspawn he is it is stated few times throughout the DA:I that there is no Blight, and we see no signs of it. Cory struggles to get all allies he can but he doesn't have an AD at his disposal.

 

5. Since Cory doesn't start a Blight, he isn't an AD and he doesn't have the Soul of the Old God. Just a talented and powerful darkspawn.

 

6. Since he has no Soul of the Old God (or essence if you like) there's nothing to be transferred on his death in DA2 DLC "Legacy".

 

7. PLOT HOLE: How does he survive the encounter with Hawke? It is stated by both Hawke and Varric that he WAS dead.

 

Any versions are welcome, ty.

 

 

[UPDATE]

 

 

Okay, Mark, I'm into replaying it. In case I've missed something.

 

[UPDATE 2]

 

Okay, here we go.

'Events in the Temple of Mythal', eh?

 

Corypheus is being transferred after death to the Grey Warden puppet he controls. The only guaranteed tainted creature around (11m-13m).

 

Then Morrigan states that the dragon or Corypheus IS Archdemon if she drank from the well. My stakes are on Corypheus, as the dragon is only a part of him, and 'just a weakness IN ability' as stated (6m).


How is it even ****** connected? Why Wardens couldn't kill him? Why we weren't facing a Blight?! How do we ****** kill it without a Warden or banging the Morrigan with a tainted ****?!?
How does anything of this make sense?!

[Dominic_910]

Some sort of crazy aincient magic I'm guessing, we don't really know much about the magisters but it can be assumed they knew some powerful magic.

[Rawgrim]

Well....not sure what to say. Nice catch. It does sound like a big plot hole. A gaping one, really. I don't remember too much about Legacy and the story in it, so I am not the best source of information for it.

[In Exile]

I understand your point a lot better now in the other thread. I think you've mostly uncovered a plot hole but you're not quite phrasing it right. The problem isn't that Corypheus can't jump bodies because only the AD can jump bodies, because we have no reliable source only the AD can jump. We know e.g. Flemeth can do it.  

 

The problem is that Corypheus does it in DA2 without any red lyrium dragon. Yet somehow the "key" to his immortality is this dragon, which you have to kill at the endgame of DA:I to kill him. But if he can jump bodies automatically in DA2, then it makes no sense to say somehow his ability to do this is gone in DA:I. 

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Some sort of crazy aincient magic I'm guessing, we don't really know much about the magisters but it can be assumed they knew some powerful magic.

 

Well it's not a theory that satisfyes me but it's the best we have at the moment. Let's correct your statement then:

 

It's some sort of crazy ancient magic that was unheard of until now, and was never used before (as other priests of Old Gods are presumed dead).

[In Exile]

Well it's not a theory that satisfyes me but it's the best we have at the moment. Let's correct your statement then:

 

It's some sort of crazy ancient magic that was unheard of until now, and was never used before (as other priests of Old Gods are presumed dead).

 

The magic itself is clearly tied to the taint. When you listen to the DA:O intro the suggestion is that the Magisters tried to gain immortality when they attempted to breach the Fade physically. The darkspawn are ageless, but not immortal. One theory is that the darkspawn generally are just a particular kind of vessel that they can fill but whatever original magical process was used to create them went wrong somehow. 

 

Another theory is that this is tied to elven magic, much like the breach. This is the "elven gods were powerful mages theory" and how something like Mythal can switch bodies. 

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

The magic itself is clearly tied to the taint. When you listen to the DA:O intro the suggestion is that the Magisters tried to gain immortality when they attempted to breach the Fade physically. The darkspawn are ageless, but not immortal. One theory is that the darkspawn generally are just a particular kind of vessel that they can fill but whatever original magical process was used to create them went wrong somehow. 

 

Another theory is that this is tied to elven magic, much like the breach. This is the "elven gods were powerful mages theory" and how something like Mythal can switch bodies. 

 

Wait, wait, wait.

 

1. Corypheus and the other magisters were High Priests of Old Gods. They were both mortal and aging, just humans that were good at magic.

2. Immortality comes with an essence, that happens to be an Old God soul. Or Elven God soul.

3. Since Corypheus was just a man and did not posess an Old God/Elven God soul/essence he couldn't transfer anything on death. Even if he knows the magic that does so.

 

You can't transfer something if you don't have that exact something, right? Even if you know how to do so.

[Elhanan]

Uncertain if this helps, but the Phylactery Codex entry appears rather early in the game.

In game, this seems to be the case as Cory is utilizing a Corrupted Dragon as a phylactery, and used the surviving NPC from Legacy as a sort of Magic Jar, Soul Gem, temporary housing, etc to get around for a while. As for altering back to the familiar form, this could be easier to maintain than a form foreign to Cory.

Have no problems with this myself, and loved the initial appearance at Haven.

[BountyhunterGER]

The problem is that Corypheus does it in DA2 without any red lyrium dragon. Yet somehow the "key" to his immortality is this dragon, which you have to kill at the endgame of DA:I to kill him. But if he can jump bodies automatically in DA2, then it makes no sense to say somehow his ability to do this is gone in DA:I. 

My theory is that he dragon was not the key to his immortality but to his death.

Spoiler

Obviously he had that ability back in DA2 without the dragon - maybe because he is truly one of the thirst dark spawn creatures.

His ability is not gone in dai - did you see the scene when you enter the temple of mythal? He explodes, dies and travels into that warden body.

After the mission if the inquisitor drunk from the well he will know - because of the knowledge hidden in it - that cory invested his power into that dragon (can you think of a better bodyguard than an high dragon with darkspawn superpowers?)

and because he invested so much power in the dragon, killing the dragon somehow causes his bodytravel ability to be disrupted (not gone)

-> kill dragon -> kill cory ( in a short period of time) -> cory can not bodytravel -> cory is death and stays death

 

at least thats what I heared in the game..

[In Exile]

Wait, wait, wait.

1. Corypheus and the other magisters were High Priests of Old Gods. They were both mortal and aging, just humans that were good at magic.
2. Immortality comes with an essence, that happens to be an Old God soul. Or Elven God soul.
3. Since Corypheus was just a man and did not posess an Old God/Elven God soul/essence he couldn't transfer anything on death. Even if he knows the magic that does so.

You can't transfer something if you don't have that exact something, right? Even if you know how to do so.

Whatever Corypheus was before he became a darkspawn doesn't matter. He's something new now - something different. The taint changed him.
We know the darkspawn proper - hurlocks, genlocks, shrieks and ogres - don't have a soul which is why the AD can take them over. The missing link in your train of logic is the metaphysical change inflicted on them by the taint.

We don't know what made the elves immortal, what made them lose it, and what let Flemeth tag along with Mythal when she swapped bodies.

There's no reason to think the taint didn't give Corypheus the power to swap bodies. The real problem is how he suddenly loses this ability in DAI without red lyrium dragons.

[Insaner Robot]

Archdemons survive when killed by anyone other than a grey warden because they have a soul. Normally when they are killed their soul jumps to the nearest tainted creature otherwise known as a darkspawn. This creature then, whether it's a hurlock or genlock etc, becomes a recepticle for the soul ad the archdemon is reborn in form and power. It's still an immense and powerful dragon, not a hurlock or anything it once was.

 

This does not happen when a warden strikes the killing blow. Because wardens already have souls. The taint in wardens still draws the archdemon soul but when the two souls meet both are destroyed, resulting in true death for the archdemon.

 

So Corypheus was able to survive being apparently killed because he too possesses a soul. That upon the destruction of his body moved to the nearest tainted body. What is not yet known is why both souls are not destroyed, as in the case with the archdemon.

 

And his dragon was similar in a way to Sauron and the one ring. He invested a large portion of his power into it. So it's destruction left him weakened and vulnerable.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Archdemons survive when killed by anyone other than a grey warden because they have a soul. Normally when they are killed their soul jumps to the nearest tainted creature otherwise known as a darkspawn. This creature then, whether it's a hurlock or genlock etc, becomes a recepticle for the soul ad the archdemon is reborn in form and power. It's still an immense and powerful dragon, not a hurlock or anything it once was.

 

This does not happen when a warden strikes the killing blow. Because wardens already have souls. The taint in wardens still draws the archdemon soul but when the two souls meet both are destroyed, resulting in true death for the archdemon.

 

So Corypheus was able to survive being apparently killed because he too possesses a soul. That upon the destruction of his body moved to the nearest tainted body. What is not yet known is why both souls are not destroyed, as in the case with the archdemon.

 

And his dragon was similar in a way to Sauron and the one ring. He invested a large portion of his power into it. So it's destruction left him weakened and vulnerable.

 

Perfectly put, I couldn't say it better.

 

So you see?

 

1. If Cory posesses a soul that can travel between vessels, an essence, and is tainted, he has to become an archdemon (just not in a dragon form) and cause a Blight.

 

One point for it:

It explains how Cory travelled to Larius body and used it as a vessel.

 

Three points against it:

If Cory has a soul that can travel between bodies and he is surely tainted he has to become an archdemon and start a Blight. We know that there is no Blight in Dragon Age: Inquisition, so that can't be true.

If Cory has a soul that can travel between bodies in a traditional AD way (means he requires taint in a new host) why wasn't he killed by Wardens of the Old? He was imprisoned for a purpose, as Wardens of the Old couldn't kill him.

If Cory has a soul that can travel between bodies in the way other than AD does (means doesn't require taint in a new host, like the Elvish Gods) how could he die and not transfer into Inquisitor or any of his party members after his final battle?

 

2. If Cory does not posess a soul that can travel between vessels, an essence, and is tainted, he couldn't use Larius as a vessel.

 

Two points for it:

It perfectly fits all the lore (apart from the whole DA2 body transition).

It explains why Cory has limited transition abilities.

Let's say he doesn't have an essence, but he might have his human soul. So he breaks it into parts like Lord Voldemort/Tom Riddle and uses those parts to resurrect himself in case of emergency. And a dragon here could be like Nagini, the closest and the most valuable of horcruxes.

Puzzle comes together if you add taint thing into it. Like the taint is a living thing (Bianca line), and can be used to set up a link between Cory and the vessel (horcrux).

 

One point against it:

It fails to explain how Cory survived after the Hawke encounter, as there is no sense in Laruis becoming a horcrux for Cory (If Larius is a horcrux for Cory then why Cory was even imprisoned? Just transfer to the Larius when you get an occasion and walk away unnoticed, as Cory retained his conciosness in prison).

 

Both ways to see it are equally BS and mutually exclude each other.

[Winged Silver]

Good catch. I didn't notice this myself. Out of curiosity, do you think the ability to regain his 'appearance' (and whatever might be tied to that somehow) plays any role? Since from the conversation with Bianca we know that Corypheus at least looked like Larius when she met him (or so I thought she was implying), but when he possessed the Warden in the Arbor Wilds he immediately returned to his usual appearance. I don't know if that has any role with his abilities, or explanations for how he does what he does, but it was just something I thought I'd throw out there. 

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Good catch. I didn't notice this myself. Out of curiosity, do you think the ability to regain his 'appearance' (and whatever might be tied to that somehow) plays any role? Since from the conversation with Bianca we know that Corypheus at least looked like Larius when she met him (or so I thought she was implying), but when he possessed the Warden in the Arbor Wilds he immediately returned to his usual appearance. I don't know if that has any role with his abilities, or explanations for how he does what he does, but it was just something I thought I'd throw out there. 

 

That was another thing to consider. You see, even talented - more than talented - shapeshifters like Morrigan can't take another human's looks. So it may be another minor plot hole, an annoyance.

 

However you've surely seen Abominations in DA:O and DA2? Those were transformed instantly. Though being darkspawn doesn't have anything with being posessed... Gotta say I feel something odd in there, just can't point my finger on it for now. Need to think.

[X Equestris]

Good catch. I didn't notice this myself. Out of curiosity, do you think the ability to regain his 'appearance' (and whatever might be tied to that somehow) plays any role? Since from the conversation with Bianca we know that Corypheus at least looked like Larius when she met him (or so I thought she was implying), but when he possessed the Warden in the Arbor Wilds he immediately returned to his usual appearance. I don't know if that has any role with his abilities, or explanations for how he does what he does, but it was just something I thought I'd throw out there.

It may be a process he has control over. Keeping Larius as an unchanged meat puppet would have let him get reacquainted with the world. He has no reason to keep that Warden's body intact.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

It may be a process he has control over. Keeping Larius as an unchanged meat puppet would have let him get reacquainted with the world. He has no reason to keep that Warden's body intact.

Sounds reasonable. But, well, please... Those metal parts. Where do they come from? Being forged in the process?

[eyezonlyii]

That was another thing to consider. You see, even talented - more than talented - shapeshifters like Morrigan can't take another human's looks. So it may be another minor plot hole, an annoyance.
 
However you've surely seen Abominations in DA:O and DA2? Those were transformed instantly. Though being darkspawn doesn't have anything with being posessed... Gotta say I feel something odd in there, just can't point my finger on it for now. Need to think.

That's not what morrigan said. She said she has no use in transforming into another person because she would gain no experience. One has to study and learn from the subject creature in order to become it. She's already human so there is nothing new to be learned.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

That's not what morrigan said. She said she has no use in transforming into another person because she would gain no experience. One has to study and learn from the subject creature in order to become it. She's already human so there is nothing new to be learned.

 

I remember otherwise, Could you bring up a link?
Busy replaying the temple part

[Suledin]

Corypheus has the same ability like an AD and is able to jump to any tainted creature only to gain his form again. He isn't just an ordinary darkspawn. He was one of first darkspawn. He got tainted right from the taint's source whatever the source might be. Killing his corrupted dragon disrupts that ability for a while 'cause he has stored that power in the dragon. And all this...has nothing to do with being talented. It's just the Blight power that he has gained in the Black City. 
 

[Suledin]

That's not what morrigan said. She said she has no use in transforming into another person because she would gain no experience. One has to study and learn from the subject creature in order to become it. She's already human so there is nothing new to be learned.

Indeed that too. She hasn't said it's not possible only what she said is that she gains nothing of getting someone's look. Good point.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Corypheus has the same ability like an AD and is able to jump to any tainted creature only to gain his form again. He isn't just an ordinary darkspawn. He was one of first darkspawn. He got tainted right from the taint's source whatever the source might be. Killing his corrupted dragon disrupts that ability for a while 'cause he has stored that power in the dragon. And all this...has nothing to do with being talented. It's just the Blight power that he has gained in the Black City. 
 

 

Okay I must have missed that part. Where did you get that information about Cory's body transfer being an ability gained in the Black City?

[Suledin]

Okay I must have missed that part. Where did you get that information about Cory's body transfer being an ability gained in the Black City?

Perhaps we should get here David Gaider...I got no patient anymore. 

All his abilities that comes from the Blight were gained after entering the Black City. He was the first darkspawn it makes him somehow a special darkspawn. 

[b10d1v]

I was surprised that leliana forgave me for that indiscretion as necessary or even if I married the queen and kept her on the side -might have been modded for that one - but that was the level of character detail in DAO.  Sorely missing in DA3 in any form.

 

Varric said that Cory must have used some old tevinter magic and Solas says that the tevinter mages stole elven magic (DA1 werewolf quest: remember the soul stones or crystals in the elven ruins the Arcane warrior?) Varric also thinks it could be a darkspawn effect, but discounts it w/o a blight.  We know sharing your soul with a demon or dragon works for Flemeth et.al.  In DA2 Flemeth sent a portion of her soul with Hawke and that seems old elven magic.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The Archdemons can jump into any other darkspawn because those are soulless. If the AD jumps into a Grey Warden, both get destroyed because two souls can't inhabit the same body. Corypheus kept Wardens close and took them over. How?

 

The Red Lyrium dragon was bullshit. As I understood it, Corypheus kept a piece of himself inside the dragon to control it, because he felt he should have a dragon as pet. Once you kill the dragon, that piece goes back to him and the feedback disrupts his ability to jump into another body temporarily, meaning you can kill him then. How did he split a piece of himself off in the first place? Why would getting a part of you back disrupt your ability to switch bodies?

[eyezonlyii]

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