115 réponses à ce sujet

[MaxQuartiroli]

Okay, I see. You don't get my point. Watch my hands right now, okay?

I. What does AD so special? Combination of:
1. Immense magical power

2. Tainted (darkspawn)

3. Ability to switch to neareast bodies of other darkspawn in case of being slaughtered.

4. Ability to emanate Calling.

 

II. What of those has Cory?

1. Check

2. Check

3. Check

4. Check

 

My theory is:

 

Old God soul + taint = AD

Human soul + taint = Corypheus (and at this point potentially the Architect -> ready to see the choice of killing him retconned?)

No Soul + taint = Darkspawn

Old God Soul + no taint = Flemeth (and potentially Solas)

 

PS. for Old God soul I mean a soul of a god be it an Old God or an Elven one, since at present we cannot exclude they are not the same... if you prefer you can change the words "Old God soul" with "a soul that is somehow superior from the human ones"

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

My theory is:

 

Old God soul + taint = AD

Human soul + taint = Corypheus (and at this point potentially the Architect -> ready to see the choice of killing him retconned?)

No Soul + taint = Darkspawn

Old God Soul + no taint = Flemeth (and potentially Solas)

 

PS. for Old God soul I mean a soul of a god be it an Old God or an Elven one, since at present we cannot exclude they are not the same... if you prefer you can change the words "Old God soul" with "a soul that is somehow superior from the human ones"

 

Fail. We've seen a lot of humans tainted, and none, I repeat - NONE were any like Cory. In any way.
And that goes not just for humans, tainted dwarves and elves just become quite, quite mad and a little cannibal.

[X Equestris]

Fail. We've seen a lot of humans tainted, and none, I repeat - NONE were any like Cory. In any way.
And that goes not just for humans, tainted dwarves and elves just become quite, quite mad and a little cannibal.

None of them went to the Golden City, though. That's probably the root of the difference between Cory and ghouls.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Fail. We've seen a lot of humans tainted, and none, I repeat - NONE were any like Cory. In any way.
And that goes not just for humans, tainted dwarves and elves just become quite, quite mad and a little cannibal.

 

We didn't even know that Qunari have horns until the first DA2 keyart was out. To not have seen a thing yet does not mean that this thing does not exist.

 

So, the main question now remains why and under which occurrences is possible that a human tainted by the blight does not loose his soul. Some ancient rite? It's just a matter of luck? Like surviving the joining but with faaaar more chances? Every story is just a blank page that the writers fulfill by adding small pieces at a time, and above all by adding whatever they think is convenient. Until it is not openly contradictory they can always tell you "I am not changing what I said. I just added some small information that I omitted before": As much as this thing can be frustrating we are forced to deal with it in some way.

 

And, like I said what is missing now is to know why there are these few exceptions to the taint with humans that can preserve their soul even after they were tainted . And we cannot say that this is not possible since at present we have already meet two of these exceptions (three if you consider the Mother).

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

We didn't even know that Qunari have horns until the first DA2 keyart was out. To not have seen a thing yet does not mean that this thing does not exist.

 

So, the main question now remains why and under which occurrences is possible that a human tainted by the blight does not loose his soul. Some ancient rite? It's just a matter of luck? Like surviving the joining but with faaaar more chances? Every story is just a blank page that the writers fulfill by adding small pieces at a time, and above all by adding whatever they think is convenient. Until it is not openly contradictory they can always tell you "I am not changing what I said. I just added some small information that I omitted before": As much as this thing can be frustrating we are forced to deal with it in some way.

 

And, like I said what is missing now is to know why there are these few exceptions to the taint with humans that can preserve their soul even after they were tainted . And we cannot say that this is not possible since at present we have already meet two of these exceptions (three if you consider the Mother).

Trying to follow your logic. Still getting bullshit, really. 

Nobody saw pixies or elves IRL. So you say those may exist?

[MaxQuartiroli]

Trying to follow your logic. Still getting bullshit, really. 

Nobody saw pixies or elves IRL. So you say those may exist?

 

maybe.. as well as we knew that giants existed only with DA:I

 

You know, I am an anime-addicted, and after I watched 500+ series I am used to find (or try to find) a self-explanation for many things: "But wasn't that character dead?" "But wasn't the father of the MC...." well... never mind

 

And at this point I am also fully aware that if the authors want something to happen they will do it, and they will find always an explanation for that thing (if they are good enough of course).

 

EDIT. At any rate.. I am not trying to force my opinion over yours. Just sharing the theory I came up with for my story, to make it working. I know someone won't agree and perhaps will come up with something different...

[Aulis Vaara]

Other Cory stuff I've been trying to pice together.

 

-Why exactly did he need to sacrifice anyone so as to unlock his orb's power?

-Why exactly did the person just have to be the Divine?

-Why oh why did he have to try and kill her in the middle of a meeting to all the most powerful military and magic forces in southern Thedas?

-Also, if he could just waltz right back up to the breach and re-open the damn thing, as he does at the end of the game, why the hell didn't he just do that sooner?

 

:/

 

1-3. My current working theory is that he needed all three magical power sources : blood, lyrium, and a spirit. Lyrium is plentiful beneath the Temple Of Sacred Ashes, the blood comes from the Divine, as does the spirit (a spirit of faith who even mimics Justinia's appearance).

 

4. His goal is not to tear apart the world, it is to get into the Fade, something he cannot do without the anchor. His reopening of the Veil is an attempt to lure the Inquisitor back to him so he can force him/her to open a door into the Black City.

What I don't understand, is why he just doesn't lop your hand off to study later when he first comes after you. Could've been awesome if the Anchor just stayed put where your hand used to be and then morphs into a new hand over the course of your escape from Haven. As it stands, Corypheus just fucks around to give you time to fight back. He really got too big a dose of plot stupidity in this game.

 

---------------

 

I also thoroughly dislike the Deus Ex Machina that Corypheus is Voldemort. Stupidest way to end that arc. We could have had epic fights where he kept regenerating while others researched a way to kill the bastard. Modified Dark Ritual? Curing him of the Taint? Just plain nullifying his magic? Killing him in the Fade? Sealing him in another fancy prison? All of those options could have been part of the game, and the ones you got to choose from could have depended on your choices. But NOOOO, he just had to be stupid old Voldemort.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

1-3. My current working theory is that he needed all three magical power sources : blood, lyrium, and a spirit. Lyrium is plentiful beneath the Temple Of Sacred Ashes, the blood comes from the Divine, as does the spirit (a spirit of faith who even mimics Justinia's appearance).

 

4. His goal is not to tear apart the world, it is to get into the Fade, something he cannot do without the anchor. His reopening of the Veil is an attempt to lure the Inquisitor back to him so he can force him/her to open a door into the Black City.

What I don't understand, is why he just does lop your hand off to study later when he first comes after you. Could've been awesome if the Anchor just stayed put where your hand used to be and then morphs into a new hand over the course of your escape from Haven. As it stands, Corypheus just fucks around to give you time to fight back. He really got too big a dose of plot stupidity in this game.

 

---------------

 

I also thoroughly dislike the Deus Ex Machina that Corypheus is Voldemort. Stupidest way to end that arc. We could have had epic fights where he kept regenerating while others researched a way to kill the bastard. Modified Dark Ritual? Curing him of the Taint? Just plain nullifying his magic? Killing him in the Fade? Sealing him in another fancy prison? All of those options could have been part of the game, and the ones you got to choose from could have depended on your choices. But NOOOO, he just had to be stupid old Voldemort.

Wait a second.

 

4. His goal is not to tear apart the world, it is to get into the Fade, something he cannot do without the anchor. His reopening of the Veil is an attempt to lure the Inquisitor back to him so he can force him/her to open a door into the Black City.

So he opens the Veil to lure in the Inky, because Inky has an Anchor. And without Anchor Cory can't enter the Fade. Because no living thing can open the Veil and enter the Fade embodied... 

You know, that sounds a little, tiny bit of weird.

[Koneko Koji]

Just a musing, but if the 7 priests were as the Chantry say, the first darkspawn and the cause of all the problems - then it would stand to reason that the body-hopping abilities of the Arch Demons come from the priests, not the other way round - because until a creature carrying the taint reaches the sleeping dragon, then they are still an Old God.

 

If this is the case, you could take it that the 7 'Original' Darkspawn have capabilities that the mindless hive do not possess, and that the Arch Demons share in these abilities due to the blood-sacrifice link between the 7 when they were their High Priests.

 

Or if it is an ability of the Old Gods that remains after they are tainted, they may have shared this with their High Priests - especially as we are told that it was the Old Gods who first gave the Magisters the knowledge to use blood magic.

[Namea]

The dragon was a horcrux. 

Corypheus piggybacked on Larius like Voldemort on Quirl-e-whirl-e.

Inquisitor is Harry Potter. Varric is Ron and Solas is Hermione. Samson/mage equivilent is Draco. 

The warden is Dumbledore. Hawke is professor McGobblegobble. 

[ModernAcademic]

How does anything of this make sense?!

 

It doesn't. Bioware has yet to explain the whole Blight/Archdemon/Old Gods theme and bring it to a closure. DA:I was supposed to be that closure. It failed to do so.

Keep asking the hard questions. 

[Dai Grepher]

Other Cory stuff I've been trying to pice together.

 

-Why exactly did he need to sacrifice anyone so as to unlock his orb's power?

-Why exactly did the person just have to be the Divine?

-Why oh why did he have to try and kill her in the middle of a meeting to all the most powerful military and magic forces in southern Thedas?

-Also, if he could just waltz right back up to the breach and re-open the damn thing, as he does at the end of the game, why the hell didn't he just do that sooner?

 

:/

 

Life = power. A sacrifice can power a spell better than lyrium can. Sometimes a life is also an "ingredient" in a spell or incantation. The orb may have worked the same way.

 

Or maybe Corypheus simply wanted to kill the Divine, who is the leader of the Chantry, which is the Maker's religion. Symbolic. If he kills the Maker's priest, then all who followed her might believe that the Maker is a fraud, and will choose to turn and worship him as their new god. The game is full of indications that Corypheus wants others to worship him as their god. The bad future is another example. The Venatori capture people and torture them until they forsake the Maker. This is seen with a Chantry mother and Leliana in Redcliff castle.

 

That was the best time. If you're going to strike fear into her followers and proclaim yourself a god, why not do it when many of her followers are there to see it and many of her guards are there to protect her and fail?

 

Reopening the breach was a last resort. He also had to repower the orb. In the meantime, he had other plans to launch, such as causing chaos in Orlais, or enslaving the Wardens, or growing and harvesting red lyrium, or sending out his spies, or setting up the plan to burn Denerim to the ground, or obtaining the ancient knowledge from the Well of Sorrows. The only reason he reopens the breach (story-wise) is because he has nothing else to play except his dragon. Opening the breach forces the Inquisitor to respond, lest the world be swallowed up.

[Koneko Koji]

Amending my musing into a theory:

 

We see with the Elvhen deities that they have the ability to shift into different bodies - with consent (Dragon Age Origins - Flemmeth correcting Morrigan's misunderstanding).

What if the Old Gods had the same abilities (were possibly Elvhen deities on the otherside of the civil war that destroyed the elves - but that's a different theory). They then took on priests and taught them blood magic (the first Tev. Magister).

At this point in time - perhaps they also started taking on their forms and giving the High Priests the ability to soul shift (logically this would mean that the God would be dealing with the same person and not have to reteach them etc over the years [it's also another plus in the former elves used to immortality column] and training specific bloodlines - a big past time in Tev.)

 

When the 7 assaulted  the Fade,   they came back blighted and were the first darkspawn. In his lair, Corypheus speaks of the unbearable silence and calling out for Dumat - he also does this when he wakes from his slumber in Legacy.

If we assume that the first thing the blighted 7 did is call out for their Gods, perhaps this instinct was instilled into the Darkspawn - which is why they desperately dig looking for the Gods, not stopping until they hear their song and can get to them.

 

Now, once blighted - the Old God / Arch Demon has the ability to shift into any of the Darkspawn or tainted beings and survive - with the exception of the Grey Wardens.

The magisters like Corypheus can shift into any tainted being - no exception.

 

What is the difference here?

The joining ritual of the Grey Wardens is blood magic - it uses a drop of arch demon blood.... blood magic that ties directly to the Old God, and possibly still contains their power - which would put the Warden on a level playing field so to speak, which allows the soul to be nulified.

 

Or, is it a size and power difference?

If we assume that the arch demon blood in the joining chalice acts like a lightning rod for the soul of the arch demon, then what if we consider that Corypheus can enter a Warden's body because he has a soul that was formally human and powers that either come from his blighted state or were gifted by his God.

The archdemon on the other hand is attempting to squeeze an entire soul in on top of another one (not the consensual coexistence of the Elvhen Gods) which because there is not enough space or life energy, obliterates them both.

 

 

When it comes to Corypheus and his dragon - he creates it out of hubris and instills a part of himself in it. We're told that his ability to soul shift is disrupted by the death of the dragon - perhaps this is because he's being whacked with a wallop of his own power and like a computer, it temporarily scrambles his systems - giving the Inquisitor the opening they need to kill him (I think... because if they sent him back into the Fade like they quipped, then that's a really REALLY stupid thing to do).

 

Sorry for the essay.... my thoughts kind of got away from me!

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Amending my musing into a theory:

 

We see with the Elvhen deities that they have the ability to shift into different bodies - with consent (Dragon Age Origins - Flemmeth correcting Morrigan's misunderstanding).

What if the Old Gods had the same abilities (were possibly Elvhen deities on the otherside of the civil war that destroyed the elves - but that's a different theory). They then took on priests and taught them blood magic (the first Tev. Magister).

At this point in time - perhaps they also started taking on their forms and giving the High Priests the ability to soul shift (logically this would mean that the God would be dealing with the same person and not have to reteach them etc over the years [it's also another plus in the former elves used to immortality column] and training specific bloodlines - a big past time in Tev.)

 

When the 7 assaulted  the Fade,   they came back blighted and were the first darkspawn. In his lair, Corypheus speaks of the unbearable silence and calling out for Dumat - he also does this when he wakes from his slumber in Legacy.

If we assume that the first thing the blighted 7 did is call out for their Gods, perhaps this instinct was instilled into the Darkspawn - which is why they desperately dig looking for the Gods, not stopping until they hear their song and can get to them.

 

Now, once blighted - the Old God / Arch Demon has the ability to shift into any of the Darkspawn or tainted beings and survive - with the exception of the Grey Wardens.

The magisters like Corypheus can shift into any tainted being - no exception.

 

What is the difference here?

The joining ritual of the Grey Wardens is blood magic - it uses a drop of arch demon blood.... blood magic that ties directly to the Old God, and possibly still contains their power - which would put the Warden on a level playing field so to speak, which allows the soul to be nulified.

 

Or, is it a size and power difference?

If we assume that the arch demon blood in the joining chalice acts like a lightning rod for the soul of the arch demon, then what if we consider that Corypheus can enter a Warden's body because he has a soul that was formally human and powers that either come from his blighted state or were gifted by his God.

The archdemon on the other hand is attempting to squeeze an entire soul in on top of another one (not the consensual coexistence of the Elvhen Gods) which because there is not enough space or life energy, obliterates them both.

 

 

When it comes to Corypheus and his dragon - he creates it out of hubris and instills a part of himself in it. We're told that his ability to soul shift is disrupted by the death of the dragon - perhaps this is because he's being whacked with a wallop of his own power and like a computer, it temporarily scrambles his systems - giving the Inquisitor the opening they need to kill him (I think... because if they sent him back into the Fade like they quipped, then that's a really REALLY stupid thing to do).

 

Sorry for the essay.... my thoughts kind of got away from me!

Nice said there. This seems legit, but doesn't really explain anything from our list higher in the topic. We're judging from existing lore, and failing in that due to lore-breaking core of DA:I. So the main question is more like "Is Dragon Age a Dragon Age game series after inquisition or is it something other than that?"

 

Thanks for your thinking and effort. Rare traits these days, hope you enjoyed thinking process just like I do.

[Koneko Koji]

I was never super clear on why exactly he needed to sacrifice someone to unlock that orb's power, or why exactly that person just had to be the Divine, OR why exactly he needed to sacrifice the divine right smack in the middle of the Mage/Templar peace talks with an army surrounding him. :/

Also, if he could just waltz right back over to the breach and open it right back up... why exactly didn't he do that, you know, in the first place? :/ :/ :/

 

*SPOILERS*

 

The orb was given to him by Fen'harel - we're told this explicitly in the scene between him and Mythal, he admits to being 'too weak' to unlock it - so obviously it needed a great amount of power, sacrifice isn't exactly unexpected when Gods are involved.

 

As for the why of the conclave? Most Holy member of the clergy in the Most Holy spot in all of Thedas - not only is that massively symbolic, but we saw from Origins that the Temple still contained power.

Also with all those Mages and Templars there the amount of power in both terms of lyrium and magic would have been astoundingly high ... just the sort of thing one would need for a high level ritual.

 

As for the breach - to start with he wanted the anchor back so he could use it to get to presumably the Black City since this is his destination, not just the Fade in general.
When he says he'll start again - I assumed he was going to remake another type of anchor - or guidelight if you will.

When he lost everything, he just rips open the Fade in an attempt to force the two worlds to combine - the Inquisitors lot say it's because he's throwing his toys out of the pram, but I think this was his last ditch effort at getting to the city.

 

Wait a second.

 

4. His goal is not to tear apart the world, it is to get into the Fade, something he cannot do without the anchor. His reopening of the Veil is an attempt to lure the Inquisitor back to him so he can force him/her to open a door into the Black City.

So he opens the Veil to lure in the Inky, because Inky has an Anchor. And without Anchor Cory can't enter the Fade. Because no living thing can open the Veil and enter the Fade embodied... 

You know, that sounds a little, tiny bit of weird.

 

Exxcept they have physically entered the Fade before - when they went to the Golden city.

To my mind, this would suggest that the Anchor is more than just a name - it's a way of ensuring that he can get in and out of the same place and possibly it contains the ability (like co-oridinates an internal map or something) to get to the Black City; because Corypheus doesn't just want to return to the Fade - he wants to go back to the throne and seat himself on it, which will somehow make him a God.

 

Nice said there. This seems legit, but doesn't really explain anything from our list higher in the topic. We're judging from existing lore, and failing in that due to lore-breaking core of DA:I. So the main question is more like "Is Dragon Age a Dragon Age game series after inquisition or is it something other than that?"

 

Thanks for your thinking and effort. Rare traits these days, hope you enjoyed thinking process just like I do.

 

Thank you, I do enjoy the lore and thinking involved, which is why I must admit to finding DA:I a bit of a let down - it doesn't feel as rich as the other games, it's far too much tell and not enough show!

[AppalachianApex]

*SPOILERS*

 

The orb was given to him by Fen'harel - we're told this explicitly in the scene between him and Mythal, he admits to being 'too weak' to unlock it - so obviously it needed a great amount of power, sacrifice isn't exactly unexpected when Gods are involved.

 

As for the why of the conclave? Most Holy member of the clergy in the Most Holy spot in all of Thedas - not only is that massively symbolic, but we saw from Origins that the Temple still contained power.

Also with all those Mages and Templars there the amount of power in both terms of lyrium and magic would have been astoundingly high ... just the sort of thing one would need for a high level ritual.

 

As for the breach - to start with he wanted the anchor back so he could use it to get to presumably the Black City since this is his destination, not just the Fade in general.
When he says he'll start again - I assumed he was going to remake another type of anchor - or guidelight if you will.

When he lost everything, he just rips open the Fade in an attempt to force the two worlds to combine - the Inquisitors lot say it's because he's throwing his toys out of the pram, but I think this was his last ditch effort at getting to the city.

 

 

Life = power. A sacrifice can power a spell better than lyrium can. Sometimes a life is also an "ingredient" in a spell or incantation. The orb may have worked the same way.

 

Or maybe Corypheus simply wanted to kill the Divine, who is the leader of the Chantry, which is the Maker's religion. Symbolic. If he kills the Maker's priest, then all who followed her might believe that the Maker is a fraud, and will choose to turn and worship him as their new god. The game is full of indications that Corypheus wants others to worship him as their god. The bad future is another example. The Venatori capture people and torture them until they forsake the Maker. This is seen with a Chantry mother and Leliana in Redcliff castle.

 

That was the best time. If you're going to strike fear into her followers and proclaim yourself a god, why not do it when many of her followers are there to see it and many of her guards are there to protect her and fail?

 

Reopening the breach was a last resort. He also had to repower the orb. In the meantime, he had other plans to launch, such as causing chaos in Orlais, or enslaving the Wardens, or growing and harvesting red lyrium, or sending out his spies, or setting up the plan to burn Denerim to the ground, or obtaining the ancient knowledge from the Well of Sorrows. The only reason he reopens the breach (story-wise) is because he has nothing else to play except his dragon. Opening the breach forces the Inquisitor to respond, lest the world be swallowed up.

 

These are all solid explanations, and most likely accurate.

Thing is, the game never, ever, provides answers to such basic questions, leaving us to fill in the awkward blanks.