85 réponses à ce sujet

[McPartyson]

Yep, until Bioware gives us a new difficulty level with better scaling and maybe much bigger groups of baddies to fight, you have to limit how you play the game to keep some challenge. A part of the problem, is a lot of the enemies in the mid-range zones cap out at lvl 11...and we end up over-leveled.

 

-Don't use FOCUS abilities

-Don't get potion upgrades

-Don't even use any extra potions

-Don't get Hissing Wastes gear recipes and make all the best gear

-Don't use Hidden Blades/Guard on hit/Etc fade-touched enchants

-Don't play with full group, limit yourself to 2-3 members (I do 3-man all the way just for the banter)

-Play in Emprise du Lion and Hissing Wastes at the very end only

[Xhaiden]

My resistances are ridiculously high.

 

Yeah, I made that mistake too. Which, you know, completing one of the most time consuming collectable quests in the entire game should be a reward, not a mistake. >.>

[luism]

get rid of the training wheels

Don't do the crest wood amulet sploit, don't sploit any amulets

Don't sploit the door In redcliffe for fade touched obsidian

Don't tier up your focus abilities

Don't sploit the power vendor for influence

Use 8 potions and disable your companions from using them in behaviors.

Don't be a KE or even have a KE

Don't train or use any focus talents.

[JackPoint]

get rid of the training wheels

Don't do the crest wood amulet sploit, don't sploit any amulets

Don't sploit the door In redcliffe for fade touched obsidian

Don't tier up your focus abilities

Don't sploit the power vendor for influence

Use 8 potions and disable your companions from using them in behaviors.

Don't be a KE or even have a KE

Don't train or use any focus talents.

heh, so play the game naked but for a chicken to cover your loins? atm i'm L22 facerolling the game on nightmare and not even got to wicked hearts yet.. Scaling should have been implemented.

[SofaJockey]

Yep, until Bioware gives us a new difficulty level ...

 

I'd be surprised.

This is an elite issue.

[JackPoint]

they just needed to fix the item/gold duping, suuprised they haven't tbh.

[tmp7704]

It shouldn't be and there are RPGs that aren't like that.

Out of curiosity, which RPGs are like that?

[katzenkrimis]

I bought shadows of mordor recently and by the second chapter I was face rolling uruks like nothing.

Rpg's can be tedious at first

I wouldn't consider Shadows of Mordor a real RPG. I would consider it another console fun park game.

Lord of the Rings Online would be considered a real RPG. Try face-rolling that game to level 100.

It even has unique boss fights. What a brilliant idea.

Go figure.

[tmp7704]

Lord of the Rings Online would be considered a real RPG. Try face-rolling that game to level 100.

It even has unique boss fights. What a brilliant idea.

Go figure.

I remember classes like lore-master getting downright silly at high level in LotRO when the cap was like 60 I think? To the point where they'd solo some of these unique boss fights designed for groups.

[Teddie Sage]

At this point, it's not the fighting system that is the problem but the fact the crafting is way too powerful at that point of the game. If people use the duplication trick, it's even easier to cheat the game and make your characters unstoppable. If someone decided to play the whole game without crafting even once, the challenge would change for them I suppose.

[MadDemiurg]

Out of curiosity, which RPGs are like that?

Pretty much anything that has mplayer since the devs usually care about balance at least a little bit. Which is weird, because DA:I also has mplayer but nothing even remotely resembling balance. Diablo 3 for instance (not saying that I like it, it's crap to me actually, but it does difficulty scaling fine).

 

That been said, there are some purely single player ones that work in that regard as well such as Gothic 2: Night of the Raven to give one example. Hell, Banner Saga with its primitive combat system did it pretty well and the final boss fight was quite epic on hard.

 

Now, if you want a list of RPGs that do balance better than DA:I I would put like 90% of RPGs to the list, Bioware's own included. Whole ME series (well, maybe not ME1), DA: O & DA 2 etc, Most BW games are indeed poorly balanced for min/max, but none of them did the job as poorly as Inquisition.

[tmp7704]

Pretty much anything that has mplayer since the devs usually care about balance at least a little bit.

In my experience in such games the devs may try to keep balance between player classes, but that has zero impact on how powerful these classes are allowed to get over time compared to the NPCs.

That been said, there are some purely single player ones that work in that regard as well such as Gothic 2: Night of the Raven to give one example. Hell, Banner Saga with its primitive combat system did it pretty well and the final boss fight was quite epic on hard.

I haven't played Gothic, but Banner Saga was getting considerably easier for me already early on, with the skills and gear my characters could get as upgrades. It didn't hold my interest for very long, unfortunately.

Now, if you want a list of RPGs that do balance better than DA:I I would put like 90% of RPGs to the list, Bioware's own included. Whole ME series, DA: O & DA 2 etc, Most BW games are indeed poorly balanced for min/max, but none of them did the job as poorly as Inquisition.

I really don't feel these games are good examples of doing it better. They get notably desperate near the end, throwing at you multiple Banshees or trolls or whatever passes for the hardest enemies in large numbers, and it's still pretty much a cakewalk.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DAI does it better than them. Just that it felt about the same, and very much par for the course. I suppose one could make an argument that DAI allows you to break things easier with the access to late-game gear through crafting which makes the power difference really silly, but the other games do the same thing with their "preorder DLC bonuses" which I avoided using for exactly this reason.

[katokires]

It shouldn't be and there are RPGs that aren't like that. Enemies should get progressively harder, just as much as protagonist does. When game doesn't need any involvement from the player on high level, then it failed. For me, high level combat in DA:I is plain boring and feels like chore. 

Fixing DAI for people like me (who like it with absolutely no challenge at all) and people who like challenge:

#1. Casual twice as easy (enemies with half HP and doing half damage)

#2. Normal twice as hard as it is now (by creating a better levelling for enemies, optimized builds and AI, enemies have lvl 1 focus abilities after level 12)

#3. Hard twice as hard as normal should be (as described in #2) with enemies having 50% more HP, 50% more physical damage, 25% more ranged damage and 25% more magic damage, enemies have lvl 1 focus abilities after lvl 11 and lvl 2 focus abilities after level 16

#4. Nightmare should be the hard of hard, with the same changes we had from #2 to #3 and in addition focus lvl 1 after lvl 10, focus lvl 2 after lvl 15 and focus lvl 3 after level 20

 

Casual: You're in for the story, not the game, combat would be purely cosmetic
Normal should be moderate, not retardedly easy, but not time consuming either, each fight should count, boss fights should be hard, but not make you have to try again unless you are a newbie to RPGs or forgot to use your resources

Hard should be more time consuming, resources consuming, and have deaths

Nightmare should be about you having to try again and I think an elite rogue enemy going mark of death or thousands cuts on you would do that just fine

It would be great because until now its been:
Casual - Huh?
Normal - Did I change the difficulty?

Hard - After skyhold, casual, at best

Nightmare - After skyhold it is casual as well unless you try to make an awful build or skip crafting

[MadDemiurg]

In my experience in such games the devs may try to keep balance between player classes, but that has zero impact on how powerful these classes are allowed to get over time compared to the NPCs.

Not really, since PvP wasn't even there in D3 at launch for instance. The bosses were pretty tough at higher difficulties, and acts past #2 on hell were pretty much impossible without a lot of farming (not good imo, but this is a separate topic).

 

I haven't played Gothic, but Banner Saga was getting considerably easier for me already early on, with the skills and gear my characters could get as upgrades. It didn't hold my interest for very long, unfortunately.
 

Which is a shame, since it the story is pretty good. The combat is repetitive, which might be one of the reason for ditching it (not any more repetitive than DA:I though). Plus even though you do get stronger with skills and gear (this is an essential element of an RPG for many after all) so do the encounters. The difficulty curve may not be ideal, but there are some pretty tough endgame fights where a couple of mistakes could cost you a battle, final boss fight included. They're definitely manageable, but you need to actually think what you're doing with each move.

 

Another example, which is not actually an RPG, but does feature RPG like character leveling and gear progression (and has party based combat) is XCOM, XCOM Impossible ironman Long War is quite awesome if you're looking for a challenge.

[Dahae]

I don't think I know an rpg that stays difficult throughout the game. even the witcher 2 on dark mode starts feeling easy towards the end. i mean sure DA:I could introduce a difficulty level where if you die you have to restart the entire game but.... idk just seems pointless to me. 

 

I like how the game gets easier as you go on, it represents how your Inquisitor and their companions are becoming the powerful and influential members of the Inquisition. 

[tmp7704]

Another example, which is not actually an RPG, but does feature RPG like character leveling and gear progression (and has party based combat) is XCOM, XCOM Impossible ironman Long War is quite awesome if you're looking for a challenge.

Hmm i've played and finished XCOM ironman campaign, but similarly it didn't feel like the difficulty was there the entire time. The game realizes this and ramps up encounters as you progress with the larger UFOs and whatnot, but it's still much easier in my experience to keep a squad of seasoned murderers alive (and even unscratched) against these, than it's for a group of rookies to survive the starter fights.

I usually play my games on second-hardest setting for what's worth, the 'hardest' difficulty is too often just mobs with extra HP padding that makes things too slow and boring.

[MikeJW]

I remember classes like lore-master getting downright silly at high level in LotRO when the cap was like 60 I think? To the point where they'd solo some of these unique boss fights designed for groups.

 

It was possible when I played for a lot of classes to solo things they shouldn't but it took awhile and took knowing what you were doing. WHen 50 was the cap I could solo some of the six man dungeons bosses but it wasn't easy and wasn't practical in anything other than bragging rights.

 

On the other hand, coming from WOW (this was BC era even) it was surprising to find that a level 30 elite in that game could level a level 50 toon. I miss that game, may go back when I get a new PC.

[MadDemiurg]

Hmm i've played and finished XCOM ironman campaign, but similarly it didn't feel like the difficulty was there the entire time. The game realizes this and ramps up encounters as you progress with the larger UFOs and whatnot, but it's still much easier in my experience to keep a squad of seasoned murderers alive (and even unscratched) against these, than it's for a group of rookies to survive the starter fights.

I usually play my games on second-hardest setting for what's worth, the 'hardest' difficulty is too often just mobs with extra HP padding that makes things too slow and boring.

XCOM indeed did not handle the scaling the way that endgame was the most challenging part, however impossible ironman stays challenging enough throughout the whole game imo (some of the early and mid stages being harder, the hardest being probably when thin men start to appear because they onesot everything at that point). It doesn't reach a point where you can just brainlessly roll through everything.

 

If you want examples of proper scaling where each subsequent level is harder take D2/D3 for instance.

 

Also, in the aforementioned Banner Saga the final boss fight is probably the most difficult one in the game for what its worth.

[SofaJockey]

Fixing DAI for people like me (who like it with absolutely no challenge at all) 

 

No.

The game should not be fixed for people like you.

You endlessly post how much you hate the game.

Who knows what inaccessible mess will be made if we do that.

[katokires]

No.

The game should not be fixed for people like you.

You endlessly post how much you hate the game.

Who knows what inaccessible mess will be made if we do that.

Still the game is, at least in this aspect, for people like me...

It is boringly easy. One of the few thing they did right. Could be better, but I'm ok with how easy it was, even liking no challenge I was able to get nightmare trophy because game is retarded. So well, this they already gave me. But it is Bioware it is always easy, I'm happy at least in this they remain true to their ORIGINS.

Knight-Enchanter is overpowered since BG2: Kensai-Mage

[tself55]

XCOM indeed did not handle the scaling the way that endgame was the most challenging part, however impossible ironman stays challenging enough throughout the whole game imo (some of the early and mid stages being harder, the hardest being probably when thin men start to appear because they onesot everything at that point). It doesn't reach a point where you can just brainlessly roll through everything.

 

If you want examples of proper scaling where each subsequent level is harder take D2/D3 for instance.

 

Also, in the aforementioned Banner Saga the final boss fight is probably the most difficult one in the game for what its worth.

 

I don't consider mindlessly upping health and damage numbers a proper form of scaling, cause thats pretty much all that Diablo does. Sure the elites gain more affixes as you level, but the difference between normal (faceroll) and torment 6 (select builds apply only) is simply a 10000x modifier.

[McPartyson]

The argument some people have:

 

"I like being more powerful by the end of the game"

 

Yes, you can have that, on a lower difficulty level. Why not have the best of both worlds. A ridiculously difficult NIGHTMARE would be wonderful and wouldn't hurt anybody. We could finally make use of the awesome gear/enchants/skills with a decent challenge. All you have to do is lower the difficulty if it makes you mad (fyi - it's possible to change difficulty in-game during a playthrough). It's that simple.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that it's as if people need some ego-trip to beat nightmare no problem, and Bioware knows this, and want people to be happy about beating DAI on nightmare. But, who cares about ego in a singleplayer experience, give us a meaningful challenge in Nightmare while we struggle to use ALL of the game's potential advantages.

[DameMagpie]

with RPG I am happy to get a story and use some fireballs. If you get a game that escalates with levels you spend five minutes spamming buttons to kill trash, it is not really challenging but tedious. 

 

I suppose you could try to beat the hard mode in grays

 

(sorry if I used someone's idea, going to sleep and just wanted to shoot a post out without reading)

[Wulfram]

I think the problem with RPG difficulty levels is that they tend to assume that the advantage of a skilled player is constant.  When in fact as the game increases the number of options available, the skilled players advantage increases dramatically.  So it would make more sense if Nightmare gave enemies a bigger bonus as the game went on.

 

Though also I think almost any genuinely interesting RPG system is also probably breakable, and thus that some people will be able to trivialise any reasonable difficulty.  But it's silly when you more or less break the system by simply utilising a game mechanic like crafting in the intended manner

[Auztin]

The problem is people know how to play & use tactics.It's like playing all the Dead Space games before playing the 3rd & expecting to be scared.Sorry it doesn't work like that.If you are used to something you substantialy get better.CPU players do not unless they add artificial difficulty like CoD Hardcore difficulty where enemies shoot you through any & everything.The question comes down to fair or unfair gameplay.I guess if you want difficulty in nightmare mode let enemy npc cast 2 spells at a time for Mages & take out aggro but one is changing way to much & the other is unfair.