33 réponses à ce sujet

[Rizilliant]

Ive tried starting on Had, and Friendly Fire, with my lightning mage, was quickly realized impossible.. chain lightning ability, aoe daggers, aoe 2handed weapons, EVERYTHING hits melee characters.. I end up doing more dmg to my guys, than the enemies.. Iron Bull with an axe or sword wears Cole, Blackburn, and Cassandra.. Likewise certain tank abilities hit multiple targets like Payback Strike do this as well.. I co-uld understand in the older DA games, with Fireball, and cone spells.. The things we had control over.. But we have no control over chain abilities, melee aoe, and absolutely ZERO control over ally behavior.. Theres no Hold commands issued that are followed, Tactical moves end up running to the position placed, then going right back to whatever they want..I just dont know if its even possible to use..

 

So im asking all of you.. Are you, or have you been able to successfully play with FF on? And what are your thoughts & opinions?

[Rizilliant]

I have not been able to use it on Hard, trying several; times throughout my playthrough..

[sinosleep]

I think it's a waste of time.

[Rynas]

FYI, apparently physical damage vs. your own party members is magnified 2.5x with FF on.  This is from the LUA script for combat damage:

 

if (attackerclass ~= CLASS_INVALID) and (targetclass ~= CLASS_INVALID) and (type == 1) then -- physical party friendly fire hax to compensate for player armor
damage = damage * 2.5
print("after physical FF compensation = " .. damage);
end

 

CLASS_INVALID means non-player

[Gya]

I turned it off for my rift mage pt (I know, I know, not real nightmare blah blah arrow in the face). Sure, I could avoid chain lightning and micro Cass constantly so she doesn't keep running into my PotA + fire mine, but given the sheer volume of fights in this game compared to Origins, I'd like to finish some time this decade. Also, unlike DA2, I've not yet been able to get my tank a high enough elemental resist to not insta-gib her. Aveline, I take it all back, come over here so I can rain hellfire on you again!

[Rizilliant]

i never minded FF in past games, but with the addition of melee FF, and such, its just not an option for me.. Glad to see its not only me..

 

I had no idea melee was 2.5x dmg, thats a horrendous!

 

As for it being not "true nightmare", i dont see how its even possible tbh.. Im on hard, and just trying to avoid the abilities that do aoe, you would have to run 3 ranged, and 1 tank/melee always, with no other melee character, & micro them both to huge extent, all while still not taking the chain light, poison cloud, spir bombs, etc.. I just dont see it.. 1 fight wiped out all my pots when i just turned it back on at lvl 17 to see if it got any easier..and i lost 2 members having to revive twice during.. Also using a healing grenade, and regen pots, barriers, and CC... Granted it was against 2 of the commander guys that go underground and popup, with a bunch of wraiths, but still...

[Gya]

Great minds think alike

IIRC they actually got rid of a lot of the melee FI in DA2 in one of the patches, so that people could play it more like an action game.

I think the whole 'true nightmare' attitude stems from the fact that nightmare + FF is ostensibly the maximum vanilla difficulty (discounting self-gimping builds, berserk enchantments etc). And I stick it on for my dw, where it doesn't limit the awesomeness (or make any difference, if I'm honest), but my femquisitor mage HAS to blow **** up. And I'm just not good enough/patient enough to micro that. I'm sure there are plenty of peeps here who can, who will be utterly horrified by my blasphemy.

Edit: Yeah, those terror demons are total buttholes. 2h reaver is really satisfying against them. What, you wanna dive underground and jump up into my genitals? Charging Bull -> Mighty Blow -> DRAGONRAGE DRAGONRAGE DRAGONRAGE I DON'T THINK SO BUDDY

[actionhero112]

Off. The game controls awful enough without having to worry about nuking my own guys. If I want challenge I'll solo, if not I'll just play with a party. Plus some spells become downright awful and unusable with friendly fire on, which stupid considering how little spells there are in this game to begin with.

 

Like there is added challenge, and then there is shooting yourself in the foot. Repeatedly. 

 

Plus no achievement? I probably won't do it. 

[DementedSheep]

Turned it off. I love FF in DA:O, I think it adds a lot to the game but in DA:I I feel like the game isn't really built for that and its more of pain in the ass than anything else. It makes a lot of skills impossible to use with micromanaging your companions (even just keeping two mellee characters from killing each-other looks painful) and I don't like how the tactics work in this game. If I replay I'll play with FF on, maybe I'll change my mind.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

i've solo'd nightmare

 

doesnt really matter on or off for that

[Jestina]

Seems like it would be awful to have on this game, where everything is moving ridiculously fast and aoe is constantly spammed. I could see having it on if this game had a more tactical approach and people moved at more normal speeds.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

NM, 'show me what you've got' run: on

casual story mode cuz combat here sucks: off

[Alan Drifter13]

The game was clearly made for the combat to be as close as possible to the (cooperative) multiplayer experience*. Which means it's made for FF not to be turned on.

[Arvaarad]

I always play with FF on. Sure, the starting skills are a bit frustrating. Especially as a mage, you have Chain Lightning on top of Varric's Caltrops. But most AoE attacks aren't chains (or dropped directly underneath the character... looking at you Varric >_>) and their spread can be controlled.

The idea of a playthrough where I can just stand on fire mines or make Cass charge through my own party doesn't appeal to me. In fact, I was kind of disappointed when I discovered that the Antivan Fire grenade doesn't set the party on fire - though it does deal FF stun if it's upgraded.

[ohnotherancor]

I like playing the game on nightmare, but I'll probably never play with FF on since it doesn't affect enemies. Also the damage you deal your party is asymmetrical to the damage you deal enemies on nightmare, which is just silly. IB can't one-shot enemy rogues with Mighty Blow, but he can one-shot Cole.

[Navasha]

Off for me.   The game lacks the control necessary to use it and feel good about the new challenge.   Loved FF in DA:O when things worked as expected.    However, even in DA2 when they introduced melee weapons having FF, then it just became dumb.    Watching a 2H warrior like Fenris wipe out your entire party because the AI isn't smart enough to NOT swing when a party member is going to get hit.  

 

So I haven't bothered to turn in on in DA:I either seeing as you have even LESS control over companions now than you did in past games.    Sadly, the tactical combat part of the game is gone and probably won't be returning in the future either.

[GoodFella146]

You have to learn how to play with it on.  I think the "well they don't have it on so why should I" argument is pretty dumb.  The game mechanics are clearly different between player and the enemies you face, just look at the health differences and the abilities used.  Sure, accidentally one-shoting Cole with Mighty Blow can be annoying, but basic attacks don't do this so again it's just about learning how to play with it on and making the adjustment.  There are ways to play around issues like that and for me it's a lot more satisfying.

 

Did they get friendly fire 100% right?  Definitely not.  But if you're not going to have it on, at least don't be the youtube noob who constantly throws Pull of the Abyss and Fire Mines right in the middle of your party then brags about how awesome they are at the game by abusing it (and yes, you are abusing it).  The AI honestly needs the help because game is too easy on nightmare as it is.  

 

For me it doesn't feel right to have it off, so I've had it on since I bought the game.  It's not even a big deal with it being on, it's like second nature honestly to know how and when to use the abilities.  Making it sound like it's some huge game breaking issue is stupid, and I also think people freaking out over it is pretty dumb and quite unnecessary.

 

 

One last thing, there is a lot of misinformation about friendly fire as well.  

 

@Navasha:  I get the impression that you think basic attacks still hurt your allies.  Basic attacks don't hurt your allies.  Basic attacks didn't hurt your allies in DA2 or Origins either.  There was one brief moment where basic attacks hurt allies in DA2, but that got changed and has never been back since.  Only abilities have the possibility of hurting allies, which is currently consistent through every game to this point.

[sch1986]

Well I haven't been able to do it. I wouldn't even try.

But if people can solo the game on nightmare - then yes it can be done. Because friendly fire doesn't really matter if there is no one else in the party.

[Shin_Seijurou]

I kept it on on my first run, Mage on nightmare. Then I didn't even bother anymore.

[Dahae]

I don't see the point of playing with friendly fire on. Is it realistic? Maybe not. Does that matter? No.

[MikeJW]

Off. On seems it would be such a nightmare and limiting on who you bring.

[tmp7704]

FYI, apparently physical damage vs. your own party members is magnified 2.5x with FF on.  This is from the LUA script for combat damage:

if (attackerclass ~= CLASS_INVALID) and (targetclass ~= CLASS_INVALID) and (type == 1) then -- physical party friendly fire hax to compensate for player armor
damage = damage * 2.5
print("after physical FF compensation = " .. damage);
end

 
CLASS_INVALID means non-player

lol. That pretty funny given they seem to completely overlook the disparity between player and NPC's HP amounts, and don't balance the damage for *that* in any way.

(the hp/damage disparity and the fact enemies play with *their* friendly fire off were the main reasons I switched off mine after two self-inflicted near-wipes early in the Hinterlands. It'd be curious to hear just how much play testing was there done of this feature, by both the person in charge of implementing it, and the others)

[tmp7704]

You have to learn how to play with it on.  I think the "well they don't have it on so why should I" argument is pretty dumb.  The game mechanics are clearly different between player and the enemies you face, just look at the health differences and the abilities used.

I think the argument is fine in the sense already having the game with uneven playfield (which is sad departure from DAO) isn't convincing me it somehow makes it ok and/or desirable to skew it even further.

edit: oh, regarding reasons not to use it... another for me was the AoE indicators being completely unreliable when it comes to what they're supposed to do, i.e. indicating the area that's going to be affected. Nevermind some of the attacks lacking this functionality completely.

[Arvaarad]

lol. That pretty funny given they seem to completely overlook the disparity between player and NPC's HP amounts, and don't balance the damage for *that* in any way.

(the hp/damage disparity and the fact enemies play with *their* friendly fire off were the main reasons I switched off mine after two self-inflicted near-wipes early in the Hinterlands. It'd be curious to hear just how much play testing was there done of this feature, by both the person in charge of implementing it, and the others)

It seems pretty reasonable to me. There's no point in having FF on if the game doesn't punish you for dealing FF. I have full control over where I place my spells and use my abilities. If I do deal friendly fire, I want the game to slap me.

[tmp7704]

It seems pretty reasonable to me. There's no point in having FF on if the game doesn't punish you for dealing FF.

There's equally no point in having the FF punish you magnitude more than it helps you to deal with enemies. The game can slap you with FF without turning your own companions into the most dangerous and lethal enemy you'll face on the field.

All such approach does is to create a constant immersion breaker, that's not really different nor better than having AoE abilities which deal selective damage. I.e. it fails to fix the thing it's actually supposed to fix.