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[The Devlish Redhead]

While most of the evidence suggests that's true, you're right that they're still really good shows and I loved how the writers were willing to push the boat out more with DS9, instead of sticking to the same tired old formula and made Voyager and Enterprise a slog to sit through at times.

 

I've only recently started watching B5 and I can definitely see the DS9 parallels, although given how much B5 would go onto inspire and be homages in the Mass Effect series, it's harder not to think of ME than DS9 nowadays.

 

 

Except at driving the Enterprise...

 

Poor Marina Sirtis, the only time Troi ever got to pilot and both times she ended up crashing the Enterprise D and E into something else! Blind guys, Klingons, Robots and teenagers all managed to pilot that thing for years without any hassle, but put her in the chair for two minutes and one ship ended up totalled and the other suffered a major fender-bender (although that last one was deliberate).

 

 

As for the original topic...

 

I've always taken that the Federation is a False Utopia masquerading as as perfect society, using a form of benevolent alien invasion to basically seize dominion over the galaxy inch by inch?

 

Sure, they're nice and they offer all these nice things, but you have to trade in your unique culture, clothing and ship designs and instead adhere to Starfleet principles, wear the same godawful uniforms with a strict dress-code and little leeway to cultural items (sure, Worf wears a klingon baldric, but Ro and other Bajorans can't wear their earrings) and use the same dull, grey ships the Federation uses.

 

All this suggests that the Federation deeply values conformity, even if they claim otherwise, because if you tell people exactly how they are permitted to think, dress and act, then there's no longer and disagreements between people? No wonder they somehow stamped out war on Earth, if they're group-thinking people from birth not to go against the herd? Eddington might have been a jerk, but he wasn't wrong in pointing out that like the Borg, the Federation loves to assimilate people without them even noticing.

 

As a final note, given the sheer lack of any LGBT representation in over 50 years of Star Trek, it honestly makes me wonder whether not that Earth has simply decided to shove everyone back in the closet, and how many Krem's and Dorian's might be currently living in the Federation?

 

 

 

You know in all the series since TNG we never had a gay crew member, or any hint of one in any Trek series....... I don't even think any of the movies went there. Sure for such an enlightened society they never showed us any of that kind of stuff. Maybe there are gay people in Starfleet or even as Federation citizens but we just never saw them.  And the few times it was mentioned it was hand waved.

 

I like your post can I pinch some of the text you say a lot of things I was thinking but worded it better?

[Sifr]

You know in all the series since TNG we never had a gay crew member, or any hint of one in any Trek series....... I don't even think any of the movies went there. Sure for such an enlightened society they never showed us any of that kind of stuff. Maybe there are gay people in Starfleet or even as Federation citizens but we just never saw them.  And the few times it was mentioned it was hand waved.

 

I like your post can I pinch some of the text you say a lot of things I was thinking but worded it better?

 

Sure thing, feel free to pinch away, I'm hardly the first to notice how poor Trek is about LGBT stuff.

 

It astounds me that Whoopi Goldberg had to fight tooth and nail to change her line in "The Offspring", when describing love to Data's daughter, as she refused to say the scripted line that love was a bond between "a man and woman" and instead wanted to say "between two people". Unfortunately, they didn't get to have a same-sex couple holding hands in that scene as well.

 

Seriously makes you wonder if the rumours are true that someone in the high-echelons of Trek production had a blanket ban in place against this sort of thing, because it shows up so often when they even veer in that direction?

[The Devlish Redhead]

Sure thing, feel free to pinch away, I'm hardly the first to notice how poor Trek is about LGBT stuff.

 

It astounds me that Whoopi Goldberg had to fight tooth and nail to change her line in "The Offspring", when describing love to Data's daughter, as she refused to say the scripted line that love was a bond between "a man and woman" and instead wanted to say "between two people". Unfortunately, they didn't get to have a same-sex couple holding hands in that scene as well.

 

Seriously makes you wonder if the rumours are true that someone in the high-echelons of Trek production had a blanket ban in place against this sort of thing, because it shows up so often when they even veer in that direction?

 

 

It does make you wonder..........

 

But that period in TV people were even more sensitive then they are now especially regarding these issues.  Networks were scared of losing sponsors and viewers so any hint at all that was controversial was cut short and it's like a trip back to the 50s when they had to check the length of an actresses dress or that it was not too tight or revealing.

 

Believe it or not in the 40s and 50s they had people wandering movie sets to see if the dresses were not "too tight" heaven forbit that gives the viewers the wrong idea.......... :/

[Neoleviathan]

You know in all the series since TNG we never had a gay crew member, or any hint of one in any Trek series....... I don't even think any of the movies went there. Sure for such an enlightened society they never showed us any of that kind of stuff. Maybe there are gay people in Starfleet or even as Federation citizens but we just never saw them.  And the few times it was mentioned it was hand waved.
 
I like your post can I pinch some of the text you say a lot of things I was thinking but worded it better?

There's Dax... kinda. She had her ex-wife from a previous host, & then there was that mirror-universe version. DS9, Voyager, & Enterprise had brief & incredibly aaaaaawwwkward lesbiany moments, that I can remember. I can't remember if there was any gay male subtext in any series... But awkward girl on girl kisses or almost kisses, they got that. I've only read a few Trek novels so... books & comics having more visible lgbt in Trek?
There is the new movie coming out, & maybe someday we'll get another series. So who knows what characters we'll get, maybe we'll get some gay characters.

[The Devlish Redhead]

There's Dax... kinda. She had her ex-wife from a previous host, & then there was that mirror-universe version. DS9, Voyager, & Enterprise had brief & incredibly aaaaaawwwkward lesbiany moments, that I can remember. I can't remember if there was any gay male subtext in any series... But awkward girl on girl kisses or almost kisses, they got that. I've only read a few Trek novels so... books & comics having more visible lgbt in Trek?
There is the new movie coming out, & maybe someday we'll get another series. So who knows what characters we'll get, maybe we'll get some gay characters.

 

Yeah but the whole Dax thing is explained away by the fact it's actually the small slug inside the body of the host and that kind of handwaves everything........  Trills are the friendly version of creatures like the G'ouald from Stargate...

[DeathScepter]

Hey, uh..

 

anybody else like sexy brunettes with fair skin and long, curly hair?

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

yeah me.

[The Devlish Redhead]

Deanna Tr

 

yeah me.

 

 

Deanna  Troi is nice but Beverly Crusher is better. Redheads FTW

[FlyingSquirrel]

The Government of the Federation doesn't seem especially authoritarian or oppressive. While DS9 muddied the waters a little by introducing Section 31, it was clear that this was at least controversial among Federation citizenry when they found out about it. I don't see much evidence of "thought police," censorship, arrests for political dissent, show trials, or the other sorts of abuses we typically see under authoritarian regimes. I'm not sure we ever really saw the details of how their economy works - it doesn't appear to be capitalist, but I'm not sure it's necessarily "communist" either. It seems more like a society where resource shortages are no longer a serious problem and people can pursue their interests without worrying too much about money or property. I don't recall, for example, hearing of people joining Starfleet because the Academy is a free college education.

 

Aside from the shady conduct of Section 31 and some others during the Dominion War, I'd agree that the Federation comes closest to being "evil" with its more extreme interpretations of the Prime Directive at times. There were a number of cases where violating the Prime Directive clearly seemed like the more moral choice. If the Vulcans had come along earlier and eradicated, say, the Black Death, or smallpox, is the Federation viewpoint really that this somehow would have been bad for humanity?