Finally! After what seems like an eternity, my Keeper Build Guide is finished!
Quick overview:
Skills
- Barrier
- Static Cage
- Disruption Field
- Veilstrike
Watch the video for the full breakdown.
I welcome your feedback! Don't be shy!
Guest_Mortiel_*
Finally! After what seems like an eternity, my Keeper Build Guide is finished!
Quick overview:
Skills
Watch the video for the full breakdown.
I welcome your feedback! Don't be shy!
"have another way to build the keeper? let me know in the comments below" but mortiel, we have already established there is only one build for each character.
Guest_Mortiel_*
"have another way to build the keeper? let me know in the comments below" but mortiel, we have already established there is only one build for each character.
I say that so I can tell people their builds are wrong. I mean, I have to feel better about myself somehow, right? My giant pickup truck and insanely overpriced everything is not quite compensating as much as they used too...
/s
Can you link your skill tree for quick reference? I imagine you are missing the extra weaken passives, and no restorative veil/gathering storm since you're taking DF. Your full build should be in text form in your long description. Yeah, no Gathering storm, no restorative veil, no stormbringer. Mana & Cooldown becomes an issue.
Looks like you brought both elegant defense AND knight enchanter (barrier decay), which actually work against each other. Usually better to focus on one or the other, since a longer decay means elegant defense triggers less.
It also helps to focus who you're directing your presentation to, and to state so in the description. Currently seems to imply new players, so I can't really bother watching the entire thing myself (or more than 3-5 seconds worth at a time), just fast preview. It may help to split / edit, show time skips links in the description to where the build is in completion, and where the practical parts application segments are.
Get rid of the 'intermission'. It isn't funny, and it is a waste of time for anyone that actually wants to learn.
I went the Veilstrike + Chainlightning + Lightning Bolt route, but the long CD of Veilstrike annoyed me. My favourite is still full Barrier spec, Chain Lightning, Fade Step, Fade Cloak. Untouchable.
With proper positioning and a non-fail-PUG, I might drop Fade Cloak and take Veilstrike again. Weaken + Shock = Sleep (or was it the other way around?)
Guest_Mortiel_*
Can you link your skill tree for quick reference? I imagine you are missing the extra weaken passives, and no restorative veil/gathering storm since you're taking DF. Your full build should be in text form in your long description. Yeah, no Gathering storm, no restorative veil, no stormbringer. Mana & Cooldown becomes an issue.
Looks like you brought both elegant defense AND knight enchanter (barrier decay), which actually work against each other. Usually better to focus on one or the other, since a longer decay means elegant defense triggers less.
It also helps to focus who you're directing your presentation to, and to state so in the description. Currently seems to imply new players, so I can't really bother watching the entire thing myself (or more than 3-5 seconds worth at a time), just fast preview. It may help to split / edit, show time skips links in the description to where the build is in completion, and where the practical parts application segments are.
Get rid of the 'intermission'. It isn't funny, and it is a waste of time for anyone that actually wants to learn.
I do appreciate the feedback, but let's cover a few things at a time.
Firstly, I really have no desire to fill out a long text post about the build. That's your shtick. Most of this is for viewers on Youtube, but I like to post it here for feedback since people here tend to be a bit more knowledgable on game mechanics and will correct me... in most cases at least.
You should look into that part in the video about passives. Gathering Storm is in there. Sorry.
Most important, as this actually is something you really need to get right, Knight-Protector and Elegant Defense do not work against each other in real situations. Why? Knight-Protector keeps the barrier up longer in combat so it's there when needed. More often then not, what your barrier is protecting is taking damage, meaning that decay is really not the means by which the barrier dissolves. In combat on Perilous, I see Elegant Defense triggering constantly because my allies are getting hit, but the fact that the barrier did not decay as much means they did not yet take damage.
Lastly, these videos are directed beginner to intermediate players, as veteran players such as yourself already "know everything", and so my videos offer nothing to them. However, if you pull the video up on Youtube, there are actually annotations for viewers to skip to key points in the video, as no one really reads the description.
And anyone that thinks Monty Python isn't funny... Well, let's just say you lost a cool point with me, mate. It's a Youtube video. You have to keep people entertained. Not everyone is dry and humourless, and wants the video to have a bit of flavour. Regardless, refer to what I said about the annotations.
I went the Veilstrike + Chainlightning + Lightning Bolt route, but the long CD of Veilstrike annoyed me. My favourite is still full Barrier spec, Chain Lightning, Fade Step, Fade Cloak. Untouchable.
With proper positioning and a non-fail-PUG, I might drop Fade Cloak and take Veilstrike again. Weaken + Shock = Sleep (or was it the other way around?)
I have Shocked, then Weakened... And Weakened, then Shocked. With Static Cage + Veilstrike, it's easier to Shock first, but with Chain Lightning + Veilstrike it can go either way.
I wonder if an Elementalist would make for a better Keeper: Barrier, Stonefist, Fade Step, Fade Cloak. Faster CD on Barrier, no 10% damage resist and the other barrier gadgets, but a 8-second-CD high-damage+weaken from Stonefist as a compensation. Did not try it yet. Measure should ofc always be perilious, as you can win threatening with pretty much everything once you have better equipment.
Guest_Mortiel_*
I wonder if an Elementalist would make for a better Keeper: Barrier, Stonefist, Fade Step, Fade Cloak. Faster CD on Barrier, no 10% damage resist and the other barrier gadgets, but a 8-second-CD high-damage+weaken from Stonefist as a compensation. Did not try it yet. Measure should ofc always be perilious, as you can win threatening with pretty much everything once you have better equipment.
The Elementalist can operate in a similar role, certainly. Stonefist is an amazing Damage + Weaken + Knockdown, essentially doing what Veilstrike can do plus damage but with smaller AoE. Firestorm and Static Cage could be seen as directly opposing in essential function (granted that Firestorm deals damage by itself). So here is the comparison of the Keeper versus Elementalist when removing similar powers:
+ Keeper has hands-down the best team ranged defense in the game with Disruption Field.
+ Elementalist has one of the best positional control spells in the game with Fire Wall.
It is for that above comparison that the Elementalist would be slightly better suited as a Controller, whereas the Keeper will be slightly better as a Leader. It is a very narrow margin, but overall the Elementalist potentially dishes out far more damage with more control options, whereas the Keeper has a bit better team defense.
Thanks, very helpful analysis. It appears that Fade Step and Fade Cloak are just cruches for self defense when something goes wrong.
no desire to fill out a long text post
Neither do I, so I use http://da-skills.net/, which only takes a few minutes at most. I suggest you do too, unless you're completely against linking else off-site.
I wonder if an Elementalist would make for a better Keeper: Barrier, ...
Barrier yes, Keeper no. Flashpoint, Death Siphon, mean non stop and double barrier spam. . . but there is no equivalent to Static Cage with the indefinite AoE CC primer, and easy AoE veilstrike weaken. I would rather carry with my Ele than my Keeper due to my gear + DPS, but Keepers don't require high end gear to support in Perilous either.
If you pull the video up on Youtube,
I did, but I really really like time indexes. No timeskip links in description for segmentation. Annotations within video itself are not enough for me, and are a poor substitute for a index/reference. You wanted feedback, and I see having no time index is a legitimate criticism and failing. Sometimes you want to go to a particular segment, the meat of a subject, and this is where time indexes rock.
Deviation of focus from build/guide to humor completely for x time is also a legitimate criticism. I might say to myself, "I came for guide, why I watching intermission?", and the viewer goes away.
so my videos offer nothing to them.
I believe there's always something to offer in a well made production, though it may not always be obvious.
Guest_Mortiel_*
Neither do I, so I use http://da-skills.net/, which only takes a few minutes at most. I suggest you do too, unless you're completely against linking else off-site.
I did, but I really really like time indexes. No timeskip links in description for segmentation. Annotations within video itself are not enough for me, and are a poor substitute for a index/reference. You wanted feedback, and I see having no time index is a legitimate criticism and failing. Sometimes you want to go to a particular segment, the meat of a subject, and this is where time indexes rock.
Deviation of focus from build/guide to humor completely for x time is also a legitimate criticism. I might say to myself, "I came for guide, why I watching intermission?", and the viewer goes away.
I believe there's always something to offer in a well made production, though it may not always be obvious.
Just so I am clear on what you mean by "time index" in the description, do you have a video to direct me to as an example of someone that did a time index properly? Before I can really get an idea of what you mean, I want to get a visual example of it.
Deviations, especially humour, in long videos are what keep people watching. I note the analysis of where people watch most. I see when there is a random tongue-in-cheek joke, it actually makes viewers stay tuned in for more of the video. You also are not familiar with the way the brain consumes data, apparently, either. Because of cauliflower and rubies. Diversions contained within the subject matter actually improve information retention. There is your new information for the day.
The Keeper is a starting class. Veteran players have likely either played the Keeper a lot already, or discarded her as worthless because she does little to moderate damage, maybe even both. In all those cases, most viewers that contact me are beginner or intermediate levels. The build I provide in this video, however, is applicable from Routine to Perilous, granted that it would be absolutely brutal to solo, but that is not it's purpose.
With that said, I can understand someone continuing to watch content from a channel because of the production value, but an subjective education video like this has to rely more on offering the audience something new as the centerpiece. For advanced players, the Keeper is not new, and the production value is what it left. In this case, would not the "Intermission" joke actually be of benefit to that particular demographic, it is the only thing "new" in this?
Oh, and here is the original build for my Keeper:
http://da-skills.net...01100,010,010,0
And here is modification I made to give people an option:
http://da-skills.net...02100,110,000,0
I had Gathering Storm in the first build and Smothering Veil in the second. Both were tested on Perilous, and both worked well enough. I preferred Gathering Storm more personally, but I definitely noticed teammates dying less with Smothering Veil. I do not go for more Weakened passives mainly because I specify Veilstrike on archers most common, and without other guaranteed Weaken-inflicting spells, it becomes a rare benefit. You better believe that my Arcane Warrior build will have all of them, however, as he will have all three Rift Mage spells.
Guest_Mortiel_*
Great guide mate, I recently promoted my keeper and will definitely try out veil strike instead of chain lightning this time round. I personally find guides like this very useful because it takes me so damn long to promote (especially when I self-gimp a build, yup, I'm a scrub) that experimenting myself can be quite painful. So thanks for taking the time!
I feel your pain. This guide specifically took me ten days to complete simply because of not being able to really level the class twice, get footage, and edit the guide around my schedule. My holidays are officially over, and it's been a brutal week, to say the least.
However, I only look experienced. I steal all my ideas from players like Drasca and Boatzu, whom have a lot more free time to make more mistakes with builds, and find out what's broken. Love you guys!
That reminds me... I need to edit the video description.
That being said, good Keepers are always scarce. I often resign and play one myself; the only way fo rme to see regular barriers. :/
Guest_Mortiel_*
That being said, good Keepers are always scarce. I often resign and play one myself; the only way fo rme to see regular barriers. :/
Fortunately, Barrier is not by any means required to survive.
so much health on the keeper, if only I could bring myself to prestige any of the warrior classes xD
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I gagged a little
Fortunately, Barrier is not by any means required to survive.
Are you suggesting a non-Barrier Keeper build?
I don´t know what PUGs you are playing but mine are not so good to just ignore a player or a key class ability. And I might add that I am not a solo-them-all hero (except for with the AW, and even then my timing hickups on perilious).
I am actually pretty much frustrated with the lags and glitches. Assassin stealth not recognized, Flanking Attack runs right into an enemy attack animation, Flanking Attack not connecting, Hidden Blades not connecting, Death Blow not connecting on Despair Demons, etc. And right next to me a Keeper who apparently thinks that Barrier is underrated. Same for Katari and Reaver, or any class which does not instantly see that Archer behind that pillar and the dozens of spell animations in between (and which the other player right next is also oblivious of). Indeed, most Barriers in my PUGs come when the action has not started yet or is already over. Way to go.
I use veilstrike since it's a 20mana, and keep all my free starting skills. I couldn't understand why some keepers were using static cage and disruption field. 700+ damage with lightning idk I think is better than everything else. Then I add mana surge and fight close to the enemies. Also mana surge triggers on anyone who you cast barrier on meaning the warrior gets a free aoe freeze. Plus mana surge doesn't require damage taken to trigger, as long as your barrier decays you get free mana surge. This means that I am constantly reducing my cooldowns because I get one free cast by letting my barrier deplete. Which means by the time my barrier decays I have already gained barrier again but just chose not to cast it.
http://da-skills.net...1B100,010,110,0
or
http://da-skills.net...0B100,010,110,0
Whoa, the spell descriptions are pretty messed up then, it says "you", and not "any of your Barrier". Is that really so or just theory crafting of yours? If its true, then also Veiled Riposte should apply to every Barrier you created not just the one on you, right?
Same with Elegant Defense; it says "expired" not "destroyed", so I assumed it just kicks in on "natural decay".
I use veilstrike since it's a 20mana, and keep all my free starting skills. I couldn't understand why some keepers were using static cage and disruption field. 700+ damage with lightning idk I think is better than everything else. Then I add mana surge and fight close to the enemies. Also mana surge triggers on anyone who you cast barrier on meaning the warrior gets a free aoe freeze. Plus mana surge doesn't require damage taken to trigger, as long as your barrier decays you get free mana surge. This means that I am constantly reducing my cooldowns because I get one free cast by letting my barrier deplete. Which means by the time my barrier decays I have already gained barrier again but just chose not to cast it.
http://da-skills.net...1B100,010,110,0
or
i want to ask about mana surge
i test it on single play
either natural decay or enemies destroy the barrier
both can trigger mana surge
(if you get ice armor, it also trigger after enemies is frozen)
but the others(not the caster) don't have the effect of mana surge
after barrier decay
i can't test it on multiplay, can you try it and tell me ?
So far mana surge doesn't trigger on your teammates and the freezing spell doesn't trigger on them.
However, in rare cases the freezing proc very far your character, not sure how. As if it is proc'ing off your teammate.
They do get mana surge from you in multiplayer. Everyone effected by your barrier gets mana surge, and once their barrier runs out any enemy that can be frozen is frozen.
I read it a lot of times, and eventually rationalized that decay was the same as destroyed.
thank you
Just so I am clear on what you mean by "time index" in the description, do you have a video to direct me to as an example of someone that did a time index properly? Before I can really get an idea of what you mean, I want to get a visual example of it.
Not off the top of my head. Think of it like a table of contents, except with hyperlinks embedded in the list to your own video with the link starting the video at time = segment begins here. You know that 'share video at time starting here' link? Use that.
If you find the right link and preconfigure, you can use that to skip to various segments of the video without having to search around for content.
usually adds
Example:
Body
Title
Introduction Segment 1, and mention the time. ==> Youtube Embedded Link ht tp://youtu.be/ (actual link address here) ?t=1m25s
Skill Attribute explanation ==> Time = 2 minute
Practice ==> Time = 5 minutes
Final words ==> Time = 10 minutes
I definitely noticed teammates dying less with Smothering Veil.
We both agree on that point.There is some serious math behind that, and you wouldn't believe just how useful it is if you really knew... but to sum up it transforms the following damage types downward: Lethal hits --> Non Lethal --> Ooh it tickles. It is a must-have on my VS build.
GS + KP + Winter's Stillness = Cooldown up before barrier naturally decays. ED because wasted point.
There is also an arguement for keeping DF un-upgraded for 10s 50% speed instead of 5s 99% SL. Both are valuable. Depends on preference, skill level, and game tempo.
Mana Surge is a LOT more useful than the description reads, and can proc upon natural decay without using the buff cooldown.
So far mana surge doesn't trigger on your teammates and the freezing spell doesn't trigger on them.
However, in rare cases the freezing proc very far your character, not sure how. As if it is proc'ing off your teammate.
so basically the same as singleplay
the rare case, are you host ?
Are you suggesting a non-Barrier Keeper build?
He doesn't, but I do. Once you achieve a certain level of mastery, you only cast Barrier as necessary instead of letting barrier decay pointlessly. Further, it is entirely possible to dodge / crowd control everything so that you either don't take damage at all, or the damage is so weakened & reduced it doesn't matter.
You don't need barrier all the time-- only when you're about to be hit, and when those hits are lethal.
When I play Keeper, I tell my teammates all the time, don't expect barrier when you want it, I'll cast it when you need it.
For example, that time between aggro and actual weapon strike? Long time. They aggro, then they yell, then they move, and then they strike. Most of your barrier will have decayed before then. Could've cast something else in the meantime and manuever into cover, twice.