127 réponses à ce sujet

[AshenFire]

Not enough boom boom and flashy flash for you?

 

I'm with Psycho on this one. If you can't bring yourself to summon a ranged party member with you, then it's your own fault for not balancing your team characters to begin with. I always have at least a mage and a ranged companion, a tank and my main character.

 

That has nothing to do with it.

 

 I want the choice to be switching out my weapons based on what I see in combat. 

 

I also have variety of members to handle different situations and they are usually out numbered to have only one party member make a difference.

 

Its the job of the 'hero' to see how the combat is going and make 'on the fly' decisions to change tactics or move to higher ground; etc.

[AshenFire]

I was lost at Dungeons & Dragons being the ultimate RPG environment. DnD 2.0 is pretty much why I can't stand Baldur's Gate 1. 

I hope you understand it was revamped much better in later editions.

 

Maybe we need to clear up what RPG means to people.  I guess.

[AshenFire]

I agree with some of the things you'd like to see in game but...

<snip for space>

I am happy to hear your ideas. 

 

I grew up with D&D many versions and saw them improve.

It also had infinite options and was very flexible and ALWAYS allowed the

player to choose stats.  

 

Bottom line is that choices that control how a player builds her character

are highly necessary and are part of RPG style games.

[zeypher]

The 5th edition does looks good, removed a lot of crap.

[AxholeRose]

Only played up to level 12 so far, sort of taking my time here, and I have noticed two things.  The questing system, and the gear-based system, makes the game feel awfully like an MMO.  But there is not enough equipment variety to make it interesting like an MMO.  If this game's equipment system is generated randomly like Borderlands or Diablo, then maybe it would be different, but right now I agree with OP, it's too RESTRICTIVE.  

 

No wonder they did away with AI tactic behaviors, because all classes will act in one way.  Mages will always run away and keep a distance and there's no way to instruct them to stand their ground, for example.

[AshenFire]

<snip>

I'd prefer a different kind of inventory though ...but neither attributes nor inventory makes or unmakes a true RPG ... but then I actually wonder what IS a "true" RPG anyway...if its inventory and attributes Diablo has it all (even Diablo3 has still attributes)

 

 

Attributes are essential for combat.  It was controlled by the player on level up.

Also using how you described your paladin.  In the D&D style all attributesx were much more interesting and useful than just for combat.

 

I agree some of the usefulness can get lost in a video game, but Dragon Age was at least using them.

 

I don't know what 'true' RPG would be either.  I played Diablo 2 and was very happy I could balance my character any way I chose on level up.

 

I just don't want to see a key element like that removed from any game that calls itself RPG style.

[Benman1964]

"Please make this RPG again. Inventory and abilities."

Not gonna happen!

 

[Ashen Nedra]

 

"Please make this RPG again. Inventory and abilities."

Not gonna happen!

 

 

Indeed it won't.

[atlantico]

 

"Please make this RPG again. Inventory and abilities."

Not gonna happen!

 

 

Yeah it doesn't fit the vision of "streamlining" the game into something even the simplest among us could understand. And by that I mean the people who have money but no interest or time to learn a game. 

 

Flashy flash boom boom cutscene *now* plz.

[Il Divo]

Not enough boom boom and flashy flash for you?

 

More like not enough plot and character development. Not to mention, the exploration and side quests are pure ass. 

 

But it's a shame that the only two extremes you recognize are "Baldur's Gate 1 is amazing" and "flashy flashy, special effects combat". It's even more funny since Baldur's Gate 1, for what it was, did attempt to emulate that boom boom and flashy flash. It just managed to fail horribly at it. 

[Il Divo]

I hope you understand it was revamped much better in later editions.

 

Maybe we need to clear up what RPG means to people.  I guess.

 

I've played 2.0 all the way up through DnD Next. It definitely gets better. But certain issues haven't quite left the table. I still find Vancian Casting atrocious, for example, which is my biggest criticism and is a huge part of Baldur's Gate. 2.0's Bland leveling represented another problem, which later editions did fix. It's a huge part of the reason why my group used variants like Iron Heroes for our campaigns. 

[Rawgrim]

The 5th edition does looks good, removed a lot of crap.

 

Doesn't matter. they still ruined th Forgotten Realms so badly all the fans left. Ed Greeenwood and a bunch of fans are making an unofficial timeline now. That pretends 4-5 ed never happened.

 

5ed will probably be the last one Wizards dish out, in any case. Believe me that ship is sinking fast. Hardly any new novels coming out, and only a handful of people are working on new products. No money coming in anymore. They even had to ditch Todd Lockwood as an artist.

[Rizilliant]

curious. several replies as to how bad dnd is, yet not one single suggestion or example as to which should replace...

 

this title tstarted out with some of these rulesets . the complaints r targeting its removal. for the hse of u who dont wabt to learn, or dont have the time, there r plenty other tjtles for your style. why do the very few titles that do suit more hardcore needs, hqve to be streamlined for u as well?

 

sorry so sloppy. typin from mobile device

[AlanC9]

Not enough boom boom and flashy flash for you?

My bet is that it's because D&D is a terrible RPG system.

Edit: looks like I win that bet. Seriously, guys, that system was obsolete in the 80's, and 2nd ed did nothing to fix it, though 3.0 and 3.5 made substantial improvements.

[AlanC9]

curious. several replies as to how bad dnd is, yet not one single suggestion or example as to which should replace...
 

Jeez, I could pick one out of a hat. As long as we're talking old-school, how about GURPS or Hero System? The nonlethality of the latter might make it a better fit for Bio. Hell, how about Torg? The deliberate unrealism of that system also suits Bio.

[katokires]

While I agree with most of what you say, this opening is going to lose you a lot of allies.

D&D is far from the ultimate RPG environment. It's just been the most successful, historically. There are other, better systems.

But I agree the way DAI handles inventory is absurd, and the mechanics would be vasvastly improved by being compatible with tabletop play (thus being symmetrical, and allow for diverse builds, and be exhaustively documented).

This game needs documentation.

D&D is not the ultimate, depends...
Regarding role-play, the part that does not interest me, since you can roleplay with no rules at all even having sex with your girlfriend, yeah, it is not much of a useful set of rules
But when it comes to combat no system presents me this perfect mix of freedom and limitation. There are so many classes, feats and equipments documented that I can build any character that comes to my mind. When I thought there wouldn't be a class for what i wanted, there was the battledancer, then I thought no this time there will not be, Heartwarder, then Thrall of Malchanthet, cloacked dancer, spelldancer, master of masks, and even the return to a classic like shadowdancer when I wanted to make a godkiller in NWN2. Speaking of godkiller this option for a 4e rogue was amazing and I loved it.

So yeah, no other system gave that. The freedom alone, well, a LOT of systems offer a lot more freedom, but this much freedom with this much documented rules, no, I've never seen or heard of. I don't care about it being broken, which it is, as much as I don't care in a SP game like DA. It is not a good system to roleplay, not even for battle, it is ridiculous for both in fact, but since all I care is how much CHA and DEX my battledancer will have and which feats represent me best... PERFECT SYSTEM.
Pathfinder gave me the same, or perhaps even better set of options+rules that I love so much. I prefer Pathdinfer world, I like the mythology, the planes, the planets, well all those things, but still I don't have anything close to any of the exotic classes from 3.5 I love so much =(

Even in computer games options are not great, that's why the only one I really love (without mods, vanilla) is Neverwinter Nights 2 (with all expansions), the only one that someohow represented the magic of 3.5 freedom+rules in some way. Star Wars with 3.5 mechanics = amazing.

Everything becomes amazing with 3.5.

So I will agree with you that for the purpose of combat there are better systes, for the purpose of roleplaying, there are better systems, but no system comes close to this perfect mix of freedom+rules, it is a lot of both, systems either go freedom or rules in each of their characteristics, at least as far as I know, when one is great the other tend to be weak.

[Rawgrim]

D&D is not the ultimate, depends...
Regarding role-play, the part that does not interest me, since you can roleplay with no rules at all even having sex with your girlfriend, yeah, it is not much of a useful set of rules
But when it comes to combat no system presents me this perfect mix of freedom and limitation. There are so many classes, feats and equipments documented that I can build any character that comes to my mind. When I thought there wouldn't be a class for what i wanted, there was the battledancer, then I thought no this time there will not be, Heartwarder, then Thrall of Malchanthet, cloacked dancer, spelldancer, master of masks, and even the return to a classic like shadowdancer when I wanted to make a godkiller in NWN2. Speaking of godkiller this option for a 4e rogue was amazing and I loved it.

So yeah, no other system gave that. The freedom alone, well, a LOT of systems offer a lot more freedom, but this much freedom with this much documented rules, no, I've never seen or heard of. I don't care about it being broken, which it is, as much as I don't care in a SP game like DA. It is not a good system to roleplay, not even for battle, it is ridiculous for both in fact, but since all I care is how much CHA and DEX my battledancer will have and which feats represent me best... PERFECT SYSTEM.
Pathfinder gave me the same, or perhaps even better set of options+rules that I love so much. I prefer Pathdinfer world, I like the mythology, the planes, the planets, well all those things, but still I don't have anything close to any of the exotic classes from 3.5 I love so much =(

Even in computer games options are not great, that's why the only one I really love (without mods, vanilla) is Neverwinter Nights 2 (with all expansions), the only one that someohow represented the magic of 3.5 freedom+rules in some way. Star Wars with 3.5 mechanics = amazing.

Everything becomes amazing with 3.5.

So I will agree with you that for the purpose of combat there are better systes, for the purpose of roleplaying, there are better systems, but no system comes close to this perfect mix of freedom+rules, it is a lot of both, systems either go freedom or rules in each of their characteristics, at least as far as I know, when one is great the other tend to be weak.

 

 

3.5 has some extremely lame bits too, believe me. The monk class alone is one walking bit of broken design. Being able to do over 20 attacks in 6 seconds as a warrior is far out there too. This is coming from a guy who works with D&D, mind you. The system is far from perfect, and every edition has some gaping pits of bad design.

[evgenija28]

People saying that OP should plan ahead - that means that you would always need to have at least one warrior, one rogue and one mage + random class as the fourth player. Assuming you play for the first time you cannot plan ahead differently because you don't know what you will encounter so this is the only way, to play safe. I don't see the other way.

 

Also, this game is huge, there is a lot of loot, and no storage chest? I found myself whilst roaming the Hinterlands and doing what I was supposed to - exploring, killing enemies, doing quests - with so much loot that I had to go back and sell it or destroy it on spot. I never understood the limit of inventory, but if there is one, there must be a storage chest.

[Ashen Nedra]

My bet is that it's because D&D is a terrible RPG system.

Edit: looks like I win that bet. Seriously, guys, that system was obsolete in the 80's, and 2nd ed did nothing to fix it, though 3.0 and 3.5 made substantial improvements.

 

 

I don't know about tabletop but since we are on a video game forum - Bioware/Black Isle forum - let me just say that DnD, both as a rule set and maker of fantasy worlds, gave us RPG gamers some pretty darn good games.

 

Little forgotten (pun intended) pieces of software like BG, BG2, Planescape...  nothing major you know

[Realmzmaster]

The basic problem with D & D is its roots. D & D statrted as Chainmail which was a fantasy miniature wargame. The other parts of D & D were built around that ruleset. Now D & D was the most successful, but not the best system. More gamers are use to the system, but that does not make it good or better than other systems.

 

Off the top of my head I think Fantasy trip and GURPS (both by Steve Jackson), World of Darkness, Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye), Runequest, DragonQuest  and Powers & Perils were better systems.

[Ashen Nedra]

The basic problem with D & D is its roots. D & D statrted as Chainmail which was a fantasy miniature wargame. The other parts of D & D were built around that ruleset. Now D & D was the most successful, but not the best system. More gamers are use to the system, but that does not make it good or better than other systems.

 

Off the top of my head I think Fantasy trip and GURPS (both by Steve Jackson), World of Darkness, Das Schwarze Auge (The Dark Eye), Runequest, DragonQuest  and Powers & Perils were better systems.

 

Aaah Vampires the Masquerade...so good. I'm trying out Vampires Bloodlines with latest community patch now.  Brilliant, wonderful game so far.

[Il Divo]

I don't know about tabletop but since we are on a video game forum - Bioware/Black Isle forum - let me just say that DnD, both as a rule set and maker of fantasy worlds, gave us RPG gamers some pretty darn good games.

 

Little forgotten (pun intended) pieces of software like BG, BG2, Planescape...  nothing major you know

 

True, but this depends on what's considered the good parts. All the things I enjoy about Planescape are in spite of its rules system, not because of it. In particular: the characters, narrative, dialogue style, and choices/consequences. 

 

That was the benefit of playing a Mage/having high personality stats was that I could avoid DnD combat altogether, even if the worlds were enjoyable. 

[Realmzmaster]

I don't know about tabletop but since we are on a video game forum - Bioware/Black Isle forum - let me just say that DnD, both as a rule set and maker of fantasy worlds, gave us RPG gamers some pretty darn good games.

 

Little forgotten (pun intended) pieces of software like BG, BG2, Planescape...  nothing major you know

 

The D & D ruleset was heavily modified for those games. The BG1, BG2 and NWN manuals had whole chapters dedicated to explaining the differences after first explaining the D & D system.

 

The problem with Planescape was that the very few gamers played that world in tabletop. That unfamilarity cause the video game itself to barely break even financially. The game was a critical success but financially a dud when it first came out.

[FKA_Servo]

Aaah Vampires the Masquerade...so good. I'm trying out Vampires Bloodlines with latest community patch now.  Brilliant, wonderful game so far.

 

I've really wanted to play VTM for about 10 years now, but I never have. It always looked like it plays like a TPS. Is this not the case?

 

EDIT: Well, a third person action game, at any rate.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But when it comes to combat no system presents me this perfect mix of freedom and limitation.

GURPS