90 réponses à ce sujet

[MiyuEmi]

@Psychevore: You can ignore it honestly for only so long.  I usually play almost exclusively as a female character so this grated on me to no end in my numerous playthroughs of DA2 and now my 2nd of DAI.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

I can accept the Ancient vs modern elvish only so far. You can understand what the Wisdom spirit conversation but not the one between Mihris (the Dalish elf you meet in the Hinterlands) and Solas?

 

I was also very surprised when I saw that the Dalish inquisitor has scripted lines to Solas in elven (go to 2:42 in ). Of course they're not translated in subtitles so you have no idea what you're actually saying...

[Feranel]

If you get angry when he breaks up with you you also go on a tirade in elvish on him.

 

I think the triggers are just inconsistent in certain cases, IE the dalish inquisitor is kinda bugged.  It does however make sense that perhaps the Dalish inquisitor could speak and understand Elven, but not read it, or read the written form used in the temple of mythal.

[Antergaton]

English people are typing now didn't exist 1500 years ago and you expect a Dalish elf to understand written elvish in a temple older than that?

 

.. wait, I forgot, made up game. Gotcha.

 

Although, I would have liked more Elf dialogue options in general. A good one would have been when they say 'Well, ****!' a lot, it is said in elvish instead. That would have been a nice touch.

[javeart]

I can accept the Ancient vs modern elvish only so far. You can understand what the Wisdom spirit conversation but not the one between Mihris (the Dalish elf you meet in the Hinterlands) and Solas?

 

I was also very surprised when I saw that the Dalish inquisitor has scripted lines to Solas in elven (go to 2:42 in ). Of course they're not translated in subtitles so you have no idea what you're actually saying...

 

They CAN read Elvish somtimes, and have some Elvish dilaouges, also about the tempale of mythal Patrick Weeks say they should know what mythal is lol, and he have said its prob a bug, I hope they'll fix it. 

 

The bigger problem is this, inconsistency. If we were told once and for all that dalish only know a few words and phrases in ancient elvish, that would be ok. The problem is that sometimes it seems like that, sometime it doesn't.

[Patchwork]

If you get angry when he breaks up with you you also go on a tirade in elvish on him.

 

I think the triggers are just inconsistent in certain cases, IE the dalish inquisitor is kinda bugged.  It does however make sense that perhaps the Dalish inquisitor could speak and understand Elven, but not read it, or read the written form used in the temple of mythal.

 

The problem with that is by the time elves were free to re-learn their old culture elvish was a dead language, the might have retain a few phrases but nothing more, the only way they could have learned it was by studying the written form. I doubt Tevinter would hand over the books they have on the subject so the only option the Dales elves would have is studying what's left in ancient ruins. 

 

It makes more sense for them to know more written elvish than spoken especially if they're a fully trained mage.  

 

Not being able to pick up carry on Morrigan's translation is one of those fumbled dialogue options like not know who Mythal is. 

[LinksOcarina]

So...how many elves can read ancient elivsh in Dragon Age again? I mean fluently.

 

And outside of Solas.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

An Elven Inquisitor should speak Elven at least as fluently as Merrill or any other Dalish. I can live with one not knowing much of the elven history accurately, and even not reading ancient elven, all of that was lost and what they have now are bits an pieces, filled in with the best guess they can make.

 

What irks me is that if your inquisitor drinks form the well of sorrows, nothing changes, he understands the voice from the well fine in the fade w/Mythal/Flemeth but not otherwise. Seems if he gained the knowledge of the servants of Mythal, and at least some of the knowledge of Mythal herself, he'd at least gain the language and a more accurate history of his people, and that goes for any race, if Quizzy drinks he should speak ancient elven and, know elven history at least.

[LinksOcarina]

Again, it's more the dialogue/speech that annoys me.

 

Not really the point though, is it?

 

Ever consider the possibility that the elves really are clueless regarding their own culture, which is more or less what Solas implies during Inquisition?  And that the dialogue regarding the ancient elves, translations, even speech and reactions to aspects of elven culture is a part of that?

 

That is how language evolves over time of course. Ancient Phonecian has transformed into ancient Greek, Roman, and eventually English and Latin. All of it has a root, but if you are unaware of the translation, it makes dialects difficult to understand. 

[TheTsar_]

Which is another reason it annoys me that the Inquisitor doesn't think anything of it/doesn't understand what the Fear demon says to Solas in the fade. Red flag, Quizzy. Red flag.

That bit really made me want to stop playing my Elf Inquisitor.. Makes me mad that such obvious oversights (As in, playing the game ONCE and you notice it) made it through to the final game. 

[Nefla]

I agree but really we were not supposed to play as elves in this game. One thing is that as a Dalish elf we don't know the real history of the elves but that we cannot read Elvish is indeed stupid. BW wants us to play as a human otherwise they would not have done such silly inaccuracies. This is how it is.

Screw that! I would rather play the derpiest elf who is ignorant of her own culture and slept through all her lessons than a smelly old human!

[LinksOcarina]

That still tells us nothing.

 

For one, the translations are likely there for narrative reasons, drama and the like. Those subtitles aren't for the inquisitor, they are for you playing the game so you can feel the drama.  So regarding the elves for a second, what did the inquisitor say exactly during that scene, and after. If I recall correctly, Solas was the only one speaking to his friend as well. 

 

Mihris is a dalish elf, so it's understandable they may have some words to share since it forms the same base language. And no, you don't see what they say with subtitles on. 

 

As for the fade, perhaps the inquisitor does understand some of it, but  more than likely BioWare didn't want to tip their hand on what Solas is to you in the end. Either that, or as I said, it's a different dialect all together, which makes one to one translations difficult. Or the inquisitor simply didn't catch every word, which of course is also possible when you deal with incomplete languages and changing dialects. 

 

Chances are it's all story and narrative reasons over lore and immersion. If it gets you mad because of that...well not much else can be said I guess.

 

Although honestly, it's really inconsequential. 

[Thane4Ever]

My couple points :

 

1) Ancient elvish is not modern elvish, and even the dalish only know smatterings of modern elvish. 

I could throw a book of Latin down and I can guarantee you most Italians aren't going to be able to read it.

 

Now I'm picturing you doing that like in the scene where Cassandra throws down that divine order.  "Do you know what this is?" It's one of my favorite scenes.

[LinksOcarina]

 

 

"story and narrative reasons over lore and immersion". So the reasoning is "you don't understand it because we said so"?

 

Yes, that's the reasoning.

 

That is also the give and take when it comes to video games, some things you think you can do, you simply won't be able to because the game says so. Be it narrative based, skill based, design based. BioWare has been doing that since Baldur's Gate, and they aren't the only ones either, pick a company,it's part of the design process. 

 

Hell, GM's still pull that all the time when telling a story. So really, it is again inconsequential.

[TheTsar_]

That still tells us nothing.

 

For one, the translations are likely there for narrative reasons, drama and the like. Those subtitles aren't for the inquisitor, they are for you playing the game so you can feel the drama.  So regarding the elves for a second, what did the inquisitor say exactly during that scene, and after. If I recall correctly, Solas was the only one speaking to his friend as well. 

 

Mihris is a dalish elf, so it's understandable they may have some words to share since it forms the same base language. And no, you don't see what they say with subtitles on. 

 

As for the fade, perhaps the inquisitor does understand some of it, but  more than likely BioWare didn't want to tip their hand on what Solas is to you in the end. Either that, or as I said, it's a different dialect all together, which makes one to one translations difficult. Or the inquisitor simply didn't catch every word, which of course is also possible when you deal with incomplete languages and changing dialects. 

 

Chances are it's all story and narrative reasons over lore and immersion. If it gets you mad because of that...well not much else can be said I guess.

 

Although honestly, it's really inconsequential. 

No, they aren't there for the player as other parts aren't translated.. And the Inquisitor specifically tells Solas he understood the conversation. And please explain how it's inconsequential? People like you accepting these shitty standards are the very reason these sort of things are overlooked.. I mean why bother to make your story/PC make sense if people just accept the ridiculous? 

[Patchwork]

I feel like the Inquisitor just chooses to be blissfully ignorant about everything. xD

Fair amount of evidence points to Solas being the Dread Wolf ----> LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! 

 

There's a fair bit of evidence that Solas is more than he's pretending to be but it's a huge leap from that to elven Loki. 

[LinksOcarina]

No, they aren't there for the player as other parts aren't translated.. And the Inquisitor specifically tells Solas he understood the conversation. And please explain how it's inconsequential? People like you accepting these shitty standards are the very reason these sort of things are overlooked.. I mean why bother to make your story/PC make sense if people just accept the ridiculous? 

 

First off, it is people like you that really should shut up for a change and maybe understand how these things work. This is a video game, with confinements to it. It is a game that is designed for two purposes, entertainment and telling a plot with narrative changes. It has certain conceits that need to happen for it to accomplish this in the way the writers and designers intended. And with a game with several cosmetic choices to it,sometimes the conceit is necessary. 

 

Second, it's acceptable because it's common. The same reason why people accept a game where a giant hole in the sky is raining demons and a band of elves, dwarves, ox men and humans can stop it. How is that for ridiculous as concept now? 

 

But seriously, the reason why it's accepted is because of drama. As I said above, it's something that is in every game with a narrative, be it an RPG or a FPS. Also, books. And TV. Movies too. You really think something like Game of Thrones is ironclad in it's narrative completely, for example, when you have a lot of plot contrivance for either shock value, story progression, or to keep secrets from the reader going on as much as Dragon Age. 

 

Also take your pick, each narrative has it so it can service it's plot. So my question now, is that terrible standards in the end when everyone does it, or is it just egregious to you because it bothered you this time? 

 

The reason it is inconsequential because the answer to the above question is different for everyone. Some people don't like little things not making sense. Some people let it slide because they are enjoying themselves. Some people are simply too uptight because they see something wrong and discount the whole package because it doesn't fit their standards. Not to mention these aspects don't really change the plot at all, which is why it's a conceit that's allowable. 

 

So tell me, does one or two moments like this really make you accept the ridiculous? Or is it just you being angry over something inconsequential because you think it's stupid? I suspect the latter in the end.

 

Then again, your opinion on the matter is just that, your opinion. So really, this discussion is already over.