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[Master Warder Z_]

Comments like "I support killing people after curfew since anyone out after a curfew is a criminal that deserves to die"

Didn't say that. If you actually go back and look. If want my actual stance.

I'm indifferent to it, they choose to break the law, if they were in their homes then they wouldn't run into the Chevaliers, it's about like choosing to run into a restricted area and then being surprised they shoot you despite posted signs indicating that.

Also fictional people, fictional country, fiction.

Seriously I wish you luck using it.

[Milan92]

So is Celene. Both would betray the Inquisition in a heartbeat if it meant a better position for Orlais.

 

Who did you choose in the end, Elu?

[LadyofClockwork7]

Briala.

[dragonflight288]

I have not read The Masked Empire, so I don't know much of the backstory behind these two beyond what's presented in-game. I know that Celene is weaker on the military side, and if I'm perfectly honest, one reason I backed her on my first playthrough was because Gaspard would (apparently, even though there's a war table mission to calm him down) initiate fighting with Ferelden again.

 

So that said, arguments for and against both? I'm listening.

 

I personally don't like either. 

 

I mean, if you support Celene, she'll try to lead a cultural reinassance in Orlais, and if she reunites with Briala, it leads to the most stability for Orlais overall. But if anyone read The Masked Empire, you'd know that their relationship is an abusive one. But she is the current empress of Orlais, and her remaining in power leads to the least amount of chaos because we don't have to deal with a new regime setting up shop.

 

Celene does not want war and can get along well with the nobility. But she is a career politician and her word cannot be trusted. I have yet to get an ending where she turns on the Inquisition but I heard it's a lot easier for her to do so than Gaspard. 

 

Gaspard is a warmongering chevalier. War is his trade, it's all he knows and he can barely act without using the sword. But he is also honest and will keep his word when given (although there is an ending where he'll turn on the Inquisition.) He follows the Chevalier code, and will live and die by it (whether you agree with it or not). He also wishes to do away with "the game" and there is a wartable mission that keeps him from declaring war on Ferelden, which I did not know about until relatively recently. He is also the rightful ruler of Orlais in terms line of ascension. 

 

But he is eager for war, hoping that it'll end the pointless politicking of the nobles of Orlais. Whether it's with Ferelden or Nevarra, or Tevinter, he's ready for war. But from what I can tell, he has no long-term goal for the country beyond expand its borders and hope the war turns nobles attention away from each other. 

[CathyMe]

Briala.

This!    I hate both Celene and Gaspard, so as punishment I let Celene die and make Gaspard a little puppet. Don't regret a thing

[AshesEleven]

This!    I hate both Celene and Gaspard, so as punishment I let Celene die and make Gaspard a little puppet. Don't regret a thing

 

We Briala supporters seem few in number.  Though I find reconciling Briala with Celene actually leads to a better future in the long-term with the elves, much as I hate to get Briala back with her.  

[CathyMe]

We Briala supporters seem few in number.  Though I find reconciling Briala with Celene actually leads to a better future in the long-term with the elves, much as I hate to get Briala back with her.  

I guess that's the difference between the two of us . I don't really care what happens with Orlais....if it falls it will be because of  it's own fault and idiocy of the nobility. This is what I like about the option to blackmail all 3 of them into submission. Why should I try to save a lost cause, I stopped Cory now let them kill each other, but alas, we might still need a powerful army if tevinter or the qunari start giving southern Thedas funny looks.

[AshesEleven]

I guess that's the difference between the two of us . I don't really care what happens with Orlais....if it falls it will be because of  it's own fault and idiocy of the nobility. This is what I like about the option to blackmail all 3 of them into submission. Why should I try to save a lost cause, I stopped Cory now let them kill each other, but alas, we might still need a powerful army if tevinter or the qunari start giving southern Thedas funny looks.

 

Yeah, I feel like Orlais is necessary for stabilizing the south.  If it falls to chaos, then Corypheus, or anyone in Tevinter really, could make serious moves.  Or the qunari.

[myahele]

I never read TME, but based on everything I heard about I'd say I'll stick to Celene. She's ruled Orlais for many decades despite notreally being the rightful heir, could've had Ferelden via marriage, progressive enough to give more rights to elves

[MoonDrummer]

I never read TME, but based on everything I heard about I'd say I'll stick to Celene. She's ruled Orlais for many decades despite notreally being the rightful heir, could've had Ferelden via marriage, progressive enough to give more rights to elves

Aswell as burning their houses down as soon as it suits her.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Aswell as burning their houses down as soon as it suits her.

Acting as though Gaspard wouldn't have done the same thing. At least Celene tried to find an alternative. Gaspard would have burned the alienage without heistation.

[MoonDrummer]

Acting as though Gaspard wouldn't have done the same thing. At least Celene tried to find an alternative. Gaspard would have burned the alienage without heistation.

Oh please, Gaspard would have challenged the whole alienage to single combat. Glorious battle ensues.

 

Celene on the other hand chases them into their homes and then lights their homes on fire. Halamshiral smells like kentucky fried elf for years to come.

 

Also Gaspard, being the flawless creature that he is, wouldn't have gotten himself into that situation.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Oh please, Gaspard would have challenged the whole alienage to single combat. Glorious battle ensues.

 

Celene on the other hand chases them into their homes and then lights their homes on fire. Halamshiral smells like kentucky fried elf for years to come.

 

Also Gaspard, being the flawless creature that he is, wouldn't have gotten himself into that situation.

His ending implies otherwise.

[The Loyal Nub]

Chose Celene as Gaspard's military expansionist policies sounded to dire to permit given the Inquistion's need for stability in Orlais and Ferelden. Celene is not ideal but she's not a warmonger either. Honestly it's a lesser of two evils choice with this one.

[StrangeStrategy]

Celene, obviously. Who in their right mind would pick Gaspard? Lets examine the facts:

Everyone in Orlais rises to power with underhanded tactics. Celene and Gaspard are no exception.
Gaspard's honour didn't stop him from ambushing weary soldiers or smuggling mercenaries into a peace-talk for a coup.

Gaspard, despite being a warleader, isn't enough to save Orlais. As we see in the future, even with Celene dead he isn't enough to protect Orlais.

The greatest ancient civilizations and the ones who endured are the ones that focused on culture and education (Celene) not war and conquering (Gaspard)

Celene has proven to be an powerful Empress, uniting Orlais with the aforementioned Culture+Education+Diplomacy. Gaspard can only lead with war.

The Inquisition is here to restore chaos, not create it. Putting Gaspard on the throne is asking for trouble.
Even if you avoid a war with Ferelden, you take away Gaspard's only way to lead. Its the only thing he is good at.

Orlais enjoyed a Golden Era for years until Gaspard's selfish uprising.

 

I mean, really. The only time I see anyone supporting Gaspard its because they point the finger at Celene and say "LOOK! She did bad things!" Of course she did! You need to make tough decisions when you're a ruler. Bull said the Qunari (The most pragmatic culture out there) choose leaders from those who can make tough decisions, not those who want to lead (Gaspard) or those who are inherently powerful. Lets not forget, its Gaspard who started the war, not Celene. Everyone who dies is because of him.

[MikeJW]

Celene, obviously. Who in their right mind would pick Gaspard? Lets examine the facts:

Everyone in Orlais rises to power with underhanded tactics. Celene and Gaspard are no exception.
Gaspard's honour didn't stop him from ambushing weary soldiers or smuggling mercenaries into a peace-talk for a coup.

Gaspard, despite being a warleader, isn't enough to save Orlais. As we see in the future, even with Celene dead he isn't enough to protect Orlais.

The greatest ancient civilizations and the ones who endured are the ones that focused on culture and education (Celene) not war and conquering (Gaspard)

Celene has proven to be an powerful Empress, uniting Orlais with the aforementioned Culture+Education+Diplomacy. Gaspard can only lead with war.

The Inquisition is here to restore chaos, not create it. Putting Gaspard on the throne is asking for trouble.
Even if you avoid a war with Ferelden, you take away Gaspard's only way to lead. Its the only thing he is good at.

Orlais enjoyed a Golden Era for years until Gaspard's selfish uprising.

 

I mean, really. The only time I see anyone supporting Gaspard its because they point the finger at Celene and say "LOOK! She did bad things!" Of course she did! You need to make tough decisions when you're a ruler. Bull said the Qunari (The most pragmatic culture out there) choose leaders from those who can make tough decisions, not those who want to lead (Gaspard) or those who are inherently powerful. Lets not forget, its Gaspard who started the war, not Celene. Everyone who dies is because of him.

 

Ok I'm neutral on them but I just gotta answer some of this.

 

1.Honor has nothing to do with ambushing weary soldiers. Your stretching a definition if honor that's not only not realistic but reaching cartoon levels of parody.

 

2. In the future we saw Gaspard wasn't leader, he had been arrested and I guess executed. Since, if we side with him we still win I guess he is good enough.

 

3. The greatest civilizations are the ones who focused on both culture and war. No point being the most culturaly advanced when your cave man neighbors can come in and stab you.

 

4. Celene has been leader and done okay but we have no proof if Gaspard would be bad. Lot of rulers that were good in war also were good in peace.

 

5. Inquisition is to stop  Cory and seal the breach. How do you know something Celene does has a ripple effect that wont cause more problems than Gaspard?

[AshesEleven]

 

The greatest ancient civilizations and the ones who endured are the ones that focused on culture and education (Celene) not war and conquering (Gaspard)

 

 

Ha, no.  Perhaps the greatest ancient civilization that influenced Western history, the Roman Empire, was built on war and conquering.  Culture and education can flourish once your enemies lie dead.  

[MikeJW]

Ha, no.  Perhaps the greatest ancient civilization that influenced Western history, the Roman Empire, was built on war and conquering.  Culture and education can flourish once your enemies lie dead.  

 

Rome had both as did a lot of cultures. A lot of the ancient civilizations believed in both. The idea that one precludes the other is something thats a recent belief.

[Monica21]

Ha, no.  Perhaps the greatest ancient civilization that influenced Western history, the Roman Empire, was built on war and conquering.  Culture and education can flourish once your enemies lie dead.  

 

Sure, because we didn't get art, education, government, laws, roads, or anything like that from the Roman Empire.

[MoonDrummer]

Sure, because we didn't get art, education, government, laws, roads, or anything like that from the Roman Empire.

If I wasn't so lazy I would link the 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' scene from Life of Brian.

[AshesEleven]

Sure, because we didn't get art, education, government, laws, roads, or anything like that from the Roman Empire.

 

Where did I say we got none of those things from the Roman Empire? 

 

Obviously a civilization doesn't just survive on war alone.  The Mongols didn't last long despite their extreme success as conquerors.  But you need to be strong militarily, and to suggest that having a great culture or a cool education system is enough to endure and stand the test of time is false.

The Romans -did- focus on war and conquering, at least in getting to their position as hegemons of the Mediterranean.  They made war a lot for plunder and expansion, and they were really good at war.  And they continued to be good at war until their gradual decline.  This is, of course, an incredibly simplistic explanation of what actually happened, but whatever.  

[Sylvianus]

Gaspard all the way.

[Barquiel]

We Briala supporters seem few in number.  Though I find reconciling Briala with Celene actually leads to a better future in the long-term with the elves, much as I hate to get Briala back with her.

She's my favorite character in the novel...too bad Orlais isn't yet ready for an elven empress

But Briala becoming Marquise of the Dales is a step in the right direction!

[Augustei]

Celene, obviously. Who in their right mind would pick Gaspard? Lets examine the facts:

Everyone in Orlais rises to power with underhanded tactics. Celene and Gaspard are no exception.
Gaspard's honour didn't stop him from ambushing weary soldiers or smuggling mercenaries into a peace-talk for a coup.

Gaspard, despite being a warleader, isn't enough to save Orlais. As we see in the future, even with Celene dead he isn't enough to protect Orlais.

The greatest ancient civilizations and the ones who endured are the ones that focused on culture and education (Celene) not war and conquering (Gaspard)

Celene has proven to be an powerful Empress, uniting Orlais with the aforementioned Culture+Education+Diplomacy. Gaspard can only lead with war.

The Inquisition is here to restore chaos, not create it. Putting Gaspard on the throne is asking for trouble.
Even if you avoid a war with Ferelden, you take away Gaspard's only way to lead. Its the only thing he is good at.

Orlais enjoyed a Golden Era for years until Gaspard's selfish uprising.

 

I mean, really. The only time I see anyone supporting Gaspard its because they point the finger at Celene and say "LOOK! She did bad things!" Of course she did! You need to make tough decisions when you're a ruler. Bull said the Qunari (The most pragmatic culture out there) choose leaders from those who can make tough decisions, not those who want to lead (Gaspard) or those who are inherently powerful. Lets not forget, its Gaspard who started the war, not Celene. Everyone who dies is because of him.

All of this is irrelevent. Which ones knees will bend more easily to my Inquisitor?