Gaspard outright says that he knows people will oppose him but that things will come down after some heads roll which means he plans on executing people who oppose him.
This choice is kind of like Elisif the Fair VS Ulfric Stormcloak in Skyrim. One is more diplomatic/wants to help the common folk, the other is a warrior.
There are so many differences with that comparison it's not even funny. For starters. Elisif is a naive child who is clearly nothing more than a puppet for the Empire who would allow the Thalmor to essentially have free rein to do whatever they want in Imperial lands since the Empire hasn't grown a spine to fight them off yet. Ulfric wants to restore Talos, stop the Thalmor, and wants to stop the corrupt Empire from ruining Skyrim more than it already has.
You people just can't handle the truth. But go ahead, you are just proving my point that Gaspard supporters just can't handle that their choice is just a racist, warmongering a-hole.
Bahahaha! Oh seriously darkone, you are to much XD. Please, tell me more about how terrible Gaspard is. No no, tell me how Celene will lead us into a golden age. That one always gets me
As his cousin had before him and his great uncle before her.
And so on since Drakon.
o.o they lead an Empire traditionally sedition and treachery are dealt with one way.
Hell even in our reality it's usually dealt with ONE way.
Some of us would rather Dragon Age be more akin to a fairy tale where wars are never had and we deal with sedition with pardons whereupon our enemies instantly loose all their ambitions and become our allies.
There are so many differences with that comparison it's not even funny. For starters. Elisif is a naive child who is clearly nothing more than a puppet for the Empire who would allow the Thalmor to essentially have free rein to do whatever they want in Imperial lands since the Empire hasn't grown a spine to fight them off yet. Ulfric wants to restore Talos, stop the Thalmor, and wants to stop the corrupt Empire from ruining Skyrim more than it already has.
Some of us would rather Dragon Age be more akin to a fairy tale where wars are never had and we deal with sedition with pardons whereupon our enemies instantly loose all their ambitions and become our allies.
Boooooo!
Indeed, its my idea of hell. Though it seeps its way into reality sometimes....Like with Divine Leliana
Neither, I have Celene, Gaspard, and Briala in my pocket. My inquisition rules Orlais
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Loghain>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tullius>>>Gaspard = Ulfric>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Celene Adoring Fan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Celene
And one does not stop members of his military force from being problems to the potential safety of the province he is trying to free. Not doing ANYTHING to placate the Dunmer in order to keep peace in his own city that he is supposed to have stewardship over is the hallmark of a warmonger and a general over a ruler.
You do realize that in Skyrim you have to earn your place? Nobody seems to complain about the Jarls making you do things like kill a dragon or get rid of these bandits to get a unfurnished house. The Dunmer got their own section of the city for free without taxes and essentially get to rule themselves without having to do anything. The Dunmer expect handouts without doing anything to earn it. Take a look at the Altmer merchant in Windhelm. She outright says that the Nords were suspicious of her but after proving herself she was accepted and says that unless the Dunmer plan on doing something to help their situation, they aren't going anywhere. If Ulfric was prejudiced, why does an ALTMER and an IMPERIAL own a house in the rich district of the city. In fact, I don't recall any Nords complaining about the Dunmer who has a NORD working for him and who says that the only way to win the Nords' respect is through hard work.
Bahahaha! Oh seriously darkone, you are to much XD. Please, tell me more about how terrible Gaspard is. No no, tell me how Celene will lead us into a golden age. That one always gets me
Celene rules with Gaspard and Briala executed "Orlais prospers and soon forgets that it could easily have been otherwise"
Celene reconciled with Briala "Orlais is resurgent, the Empress a patron of arts and culture"
But go ahead and continue to insult me rather than actually giving proof that Gaspard is the better ruler. That speaks volumes about you more than it does for me.
I go with Celene because Gaspard seems like a racist warmonger, from what I've read in Masked Empire.
I go with Celene because Gaspard seems like a racist warmonger, from what I've read in Masked Empire.
Gaspard cares for war, for battle, and for glory.
He can have his decent moments, I admit that, but I don't think he'd survive long as Emperor, at least not if he continued with his original plan of re-expansion. Orlais is a large country, granted, but with the civil war, Corypheus and arguably, the ramifications of the Mage/Templar War, it wouldn't have the resources to last the extra wars that will need to be fought for re-expansion.
And even if he did decide to hold off on re-expansion, then he's suddenly got a lot of angry nobles he made promises to.
And even if he did decide to hold off on re-expansion, then he's suddenly got a lot of angry nobles he made promises to.
If he gave them back a city they lost a century prior I think the militant portion of his supporters would be content as long as he showed interest in more.
Seriously Perrendale would earn him major brownie points across Orlais period.
That's assuming he wins. Considering the last time Orlais lost a conflict it nearly crippled the country, I'd say Gaspard losing a war would give him a rebellion faster than you can say usurper.
That's assuming he wins.
Celene rules with Gaspard and Briala executed "Orlais prospers and soon forgets that it could easily have been otherwise"
Celene reconciled with Briala "Orlais is resurgent, the Empress a patron of arts and culture"
But go ahead and continue to insult me rather than actually giving proof that Gaspard is the better ruler. That speaks volumes about you more than it does for me.
Continue to insult you it is, thanks for your permission btw. But tbh I see it as little different to your little constant potshots, like the constant ones against Br3ad and Warder....Or heck anyone who disagrees with you. Or your amusing little one recently "Lucius, why am I not suprised" (Because your quick to falsely assume and to judge from your high seat is the answer btw)
As to the Celene/Gaspard debate, Ive discussed it with you before, feel free to go back and read the points ive made in the past at your leisure. Ultimately you chose to ignore most and return to your "He is a warmongering evil man stance" and then I explained why Warring with Ferelden wasn't such a bad thing (Though the timing was) and ultimately it all boiled down to your morality that all war is bad, so then we can do little more than disagree...Or keep going in circles
Ultimately though I believe all 3: Celene, Gaspard and Briala are complete idiots and shouldn't be running a country. And heck I mainly chose Gaspard because his rule will start out unstable meaning he will be more reliant on the Inquisition than Celene, and because I feel he is easier to manipulate, and I like that he does something to check Tevinter and wants to try and draw focus away from the political infighting that is the game (Which Josephine states has become more inverted in recent years). And I feel eventually invading and conquering Ferelden could be good for Orlais.
You do realize that in Skyrim you have to earn your place? Nobody seems to complain about the Jarls making you do things like kill a dragon or get rid of these bandits to get a unfurnished house. The Dunmer got their own section of the city for free without taxes and essentially get to rule themselves without having to do anything. The Dunmer expect handouts without doing anything to earn it. Take a look at the Altmer merchant in Windhelm. She outright says that the Nords were suspicious of her but after proving herself she was accepted and says that unless the Dunmer plan on doing something to help their situation, they aren't going anywhere. If Ulfric was prejudiced, why does an ALTMER and an IMPERIAL own a house in the rich district of the city. In fact, I don't recall any Nords complaining about the Dunmer who has a NORD working for him and who says that the only way to win the Nords' respect is through hard work.
They do not even get a chance to earn anything, however. The Jarl refuses to even acknowledge the issue unless it has something to do with the Civil War/Nord power.
But this is off-topic. I am done arguing with you on this topic here. what to argue Skyrim? I am on the official Bethsoft Forums, as drake-heart12.
Pretty sure his ending says he executes all who oppose him - that's pretty brutal / iron fist, everyone (each noble house who rises up and knows their last mistake).except for the part where it isn't, like at all
in any way
Damn, he outs down rebels and fortifies the border with Tevinter, the horrorPretty sure his ending says he executes all who oppose him - that's pretty brutal / iron fist, everyone (each noble house who rises up and knows their last mistake).
And he either declares war on ferelden (which to be fair is quite easy to avoid) or fortifies the northern border, winning many victories (not exactly peaceful is it!).
Damn, he outs down rebels and fortifies the border with Tevinter, the horror
If it was just fortifying... maybe. BUT the epilogue is clear he 'wins many victories'. Building a fort or improving a border isn't 'winning many victories', it can certainly help you win many victories. He's certainly NOT peaceful.
Yes... that's what would be called: ruling with an iron fist.
Which you said didn't happen.
He's a self-confessed warmonger.
The problem with putting down rebellions (well firstly people are rebelling) and being the strongman is that it only works for a time. You have to keep winning and keep suppressing dissent. If you stop (especially if you stop winning) then it can unravel very quickly. Especially if you don't play politics and breed dissent amongst the nobility then when it starts going wrong, you may not have any allies to support you.
We've had a number of (historical) rulers who've come a cropper in this way. In fact in this 800th anniversary year King John springs to mind!
And as this can rely (as with all three) on external support this could backfire in the long run for the inquisition (you're seen as supporting a weak/brutal/alien leader and you loose support too). And if that support is removed you are in trouble.
ALL three of them have issues:
Celene is a peacemaker ruling a kingdom that can remember a time when it had an empire and still wants it. Doesn't matter that maintaining the empire as it broke apart eventually broke the kingdom. One of the causes of the civil war is her peacemaking with Ferelden and others.
Gaspard is brutal strongman who doesn't play politics (see above).
Briala is a tenuous position - her position lasts as long as she can continue to hold sway over Gaspard (so must play the game at all times - though after a time this turns from blackmail to M.A.D.) but she's an elf AND a radical, implementing policies that perhaps Orlais is not ready for nor wants.
Celene and Briala comes with a mixture of the flaws of both Celene and Briala and Celene can no play marriage politics as their relationship is in the open (an added complication is that Briala is not an elf rather than a noble (who could bring supporters with her like a marriage effectively could)).
There are ways for Gaspard to be successful as a ruler, it's just easier for Celene to be, based on my own playthroughs. And she is successful in different ways because she focuses on building culture and education in Orlais, and is less interested in building up its military strength or how powerful it is seen by other countries. I think both are important to any country.
My next playthrough, I'm going to support Gaspard and see where that takes me and the kind of options I have on the Wartable, find out for myself.
I think a quote from Sherlock Holmes is usable in this debate. "It's a mistake to make assumptions before we have the facts. Inevitably we twist the facts to fit our assumptions rather than twist our assumptions to fit the facts."
Hardcore Gaspard supporters, or the people who roleplay as one since I actually don't know how they play the game on their own time, I've noticed have a tendency to dismiss Celene and Briala out of hand. Hardcore Celene supporters tend to dismiss Gaspard out of hand. Both sides present evidence that things aren't that bad with that particular ruler given a certain set of parameters being met, and both sides dismiss that evidence because it doesn't match the preconceived notions they built up after reading TME. I've noticed the people who decided Celene is an idiot in the book before the game came out are also dismissing anything that she accomplishes and touting Gaspard as the ruler to be. But the people who decided to hate Gaspard because they disagree with the Chevalier code and how much of a warmonger he is also seem to dismiss his rule entirely based on their preconceived notions from the book as well.
Me, I hated both by the end of the book, so I'm willing to work with both and compare the difference and form my own opinions.
Overall, based on my own experiences in the game, Celene and Briala bring the most stability to Orlais and brings a cultural reinassance while also reducing racism, Celene by herself and friends with the Inquisition bring stability, but there are issues here and there. I haven't done any playthroughs with Gaspard in charge alone or Gaspard in charge while blackmailed by Briala.
So I now need to gather information for myself so I can discuss things with full knowledge of exactly what happens and not rely on youtube videos or other forumites remarks.
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