403 réponses à ce sujet

[Solbranthius]

Read World of Thedas. The book outright says that Celene restored Orlais to power after the Ferelden Rebellion succeded which crippled Orlais. That shows evidence that focusing on military matters only can do more harm than good.

 

Not necessarily. When there's a legitimate thread then a strong military is far more useful than the appeasement of the scheming nobility. Corypheus and his forces were a major threat that needed to be countered sooner rather than later. Gaspard is the best counter to the threat.

 

Obviously we have the benefit of knowing that a new threat will emerge in DLC so I'm sure Gaspard's aid will continue to be a valuable asset to the Inquisition as it moves forward.

[InfinitePaths]

Yeah, who needs portals, thorough knowledge and experience in internal politics, desire to change things and strong diplomatic relations with everyone when you have a slightly stronger military.Yup, makes sense.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Dude, now just what happens in game to suit your argument. We're done.

So you have no proof? Why am I not surprised. Celene will never try to invade Ferelden. The peace treaty is only a formality to make the peace official if she rules since she never wanted a war with Ferelden. Funny how Celene supporters have given more proof without making stuff up.

[Master Warder Z_]

That shows evidence that focusing on military matters only can do more harm than good.

That's hippy bull**** if I ever heard it.

War founded Orlais, War founded Tevinter, Nevarra, The Free Marches.

All across Thedas these nations began because someone desired expansion and it created the world.

So excuse me for not jumping on the granola bandwagon.

[Solbranthius]

So you have no proof? Why am I not surprised. Celene will never try to invade Ferelden. The peace treaty is only a formality to make the peace official if she rules since she never wanted a war with Ferelden. Funny how Celene supporters have given more proof without making stuff up.

 

Why are you taking this discussion so personally? It's a debate regarding fictional characters in a fictional setting.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, who needs portals, thorough knowledge and experience in internal politics, desire to change things and strong diplomatic relations with everyone when you have a slightly stronger military.Yup, makes sense.

 

The desire to change things is what I do no appreciate. There is an elven god on the loose and both Tevinter and Qunari increasingly look to the South.

Now is hardly the time for sweeping social change. Now is the time to batten down the hatches and sharpen the spears.
 

[Barquiel]

Not necessarily. When there's a legitimate thread then a strong military is far more useful than the appeasement of the scheming nobility. Corypheus and his forces were a major threat that needed to be countered sooner rather than later. Gaspard is the best counter to the threat.
 
Obviously we have the benefit of knowing that a new threat will emerge in DLC so I'm sure Gaspard's aid will continue to be a valuable asset to the Inquisition as it moves forward.

It would be a harder decision if he were some sort of military mastermind. Or if he could provide more soldiers than Celene. But that isn't the case. He couldn't defeat her in the civil war. And Celene never had any problems to secure Orlais's borders either.

[thesuperdarkone2]

That's hippy bull**** if I ever heard it.

War founded Orlais, War founded Tevinter, Nevarra, The Free Marches.

All across Thedas these nations began because someone desired expansion and it created the world.

So excuse me for not jumping on the granola bandwagon.

Considering that war nearly crippled Orlais, I'd say that's a good reason to not answer every problem with war.

[MisterJB]

It would be a harder decision if he were some sort of military mastermind. Or if he could provide more soldiers than Celene. But that isn't the case. He couldn't defeat her in the civil war. And Celene never had any problems to secure Orlais's borders either.

She lost Perendale to Nevarra.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The desire to change things is what I do no appreciate. There is an elven god on the loose and both Tevinter and Qunari increasingly look to the South.

Now is hardly the time for sweeping social change. Now is the time to batten down the hatches and sharpen the spears.
 

There are other ways to get what you want in a war without focusing on fighting. For instance, Celene nearly got the names of every Qunari spy in Orlais through diplomacy. If not for Hawke, it's possible she would have succeeded. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Funny how we're still arguing despite the fact that I'm certain the OP already chose Celene. You've lost this round Gaspard lovers. 

[Barquiel]

She lost Perendale to Nevarra.

According to the DA wiki this happened before Celene's rise to power

In 8:70 Blessed, a war between Nevarra and Orlais over the control of the western hills around Perendale results in Nevarran victory. However, Orlais proceeds to sow dissent and rebellion among the locals in Perendale, who resent Nevarran rule[6].
In 8:99 Blessed, dragons devastate the countrysides in Orlais and Nevarra, and all attempts to slay them end in disaster. As the Blessed Age draws to a close, they name the Dragon Age, saying that it will be an age of violence and upheaval[7].

[FiveThreeTen]

She lost Perendale to Nevarra.

No, Celene took the throne in 9:20, Perendale was lost in 8:46 Blessed:

 

"In 8:46 Blessed, while most of the Orlesian army was committed to a war in Ferelden, the Pentaghasts began their war against Orlais. The Orlesians rallied a defense and drove the Nevarrans from Ghislain and Arlesans, but at the cost of much of their northern territory. Perendale was lost and never recovered. A lingering sign that peace between the two nations was impossible."

—From In Pursuit of Knowledge: Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi

 

Codex 59 in Inquisition, History section

 

Ninja'ed

Modifié par FiveThreeTen, 19 janvier 2015 - 05:52 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering that war nearly crippled Orlais, I'd say that's a good reason to not answer every problem with war.

The War did nothing of the short, it more or less paid for itself as such things do. Because Fereldan has a few nice trading locations after all.

The occupation was extremely profitable for Orlais, even Meghelen comments on it.

Florian nearly bankrupted Orlais through lavish lifestyle and poor financial sense.

All Celene truely did was not take baths in water laced with gold.

[Timpants]

Dude, now you're just changing what happens in game to suit your argument. We're done.

The list may be incomplete, but if you look at the possible endings on http://dragonage.wik...e_(Inquisition)the only one mentioning Orlais invading Ferelden is under Gaspard. If Celene is the empress the war table mission appears to be irrelevant. 

[MisterJB]

According to the DA wiki this happened before Celene's rise to power

In 8:70 Blessed, a war between Nevarra and Orlais over the control of the western hills around Perendale results in Nevarran victory. However, Orlais proceeds to sow dissent and rebellion among the locals in Perendale, who resent Nevarran rule[6].
In 8:99 Blessed, dragons devastate the countrysides in Orlais and Nevarra, and all attempts to slay them end in disaster. As the Blessed Age draws to a close, they name the Dragon Age, saying that it will be an age of violence and upheaval[7].

 

Yes, you are right. That was before she was even born, in fact. My mistake.

Still, Gaspard is a better military leader. After a civil war plus demonic and Tevinter invasion, he is the better choice to rebuild Orlais' defences before anyone decides to take advantage.
 

[FiveThreeTen]

Yes, you are right. That was before she was even born, in fact. My mistake.

Still, Gaspard is a better military leader. After a civil war plus demonic and Tevinter invasion, he is the better choice to rebuild Orlais' defences before anyone decides to take advantage.
 

Not necessarily.

Nothing states in Celene's ending that Orlais is more vulnerable to an invasion (you can have her rely heavily on the Inquisition alliance, but the same is true for Gaspard). Unless we're told Celene's rule leads to that in the future of course.

[InfinitePaths]

BTW I think the

 

X clings to the throne just because of the Inquisition/Both parties benefit from the alliance/Icy reception awaits Inky at court isn't related to the choice but to another factor since we have seen all of these options for all rulers.

[Dgyre]

I'd go with Celene

 

 

Maybe I haven't had enough conversations yet, on my 3rd playthrough, but other than being a smart military tactician, I don't remember seeing a single factor qualifying Gaspard to rule or making him a morally preferable choice?

 

I do think Bioware intentionally made all 3 of them have bad aspects so there is no clearly superior choice, just like Bhelen and Harrowmount.

 

But yeah, even though Celene is in many ways a bad person, she still seems much more capable of rule than Gaspard.  Celene can always let a general, like Gaspard, handle military affairs for her.

 

Gaspard isn't going to employ or listen to diplomatic advisors.  Celene, for all her desire for power...does seem to care on some level about the prosperity of Orlais...

 

Gaspard..at least from conversations with him so far...just seems to want power for himself and doesn't really care about the country.   

 

 

...plus he just 'feels' slimy to me damnit!

[FiveThreeTen]

BTW I think the

 

X clings to the throne just because of the Inquisition/Both parties benefit from the alliance/Icy reception awaits Inky at court isn't related to the choice but to another factor since we have seen all of these options for all rulers.

Indeed, I believe it's wether or not you completed the War Table mission (since it's avalaible for both Gaspard and Celene) or Court approval who knows.

[The Baconer]

Briala. :>

 

Briala and Gaspard.

 

Celene with Briala and Gaspard still alive and schemin'.

[DementedSheep]

Hate them both but Celene because she is at least not an expansionist and seems to be willing to improve things for the elves (without  having to resort to blackmail and having Briala run things from the shadows which seems a bad idea if you want any stability). At least she'll help the elves until it harms her reputation and then she'll go wipe out another alienage.  *disgusted noises* 

 

Gaspard is a military leader but Celene presumably would have advisories and generals for matters involving the military and would be willing to listen to them.

[Jaison1986]

Hate them both but Celene because she is at least not an expansionist and seems to be willing to improve things for the elves (without  having to resort to blackmail and having Briala run things from the shadows which seems a bad idea if you want any stability). At least she'll help the elves until it harms her reputation and then she'll go wipe out another alienage.  *disgusted noises* 

 

Tell me about it. And people still argue she is the better person. Both Celene and Gaspard are jerks, but Gaspard is considerably more honest, and easier to manipulate.

[Master Warder Z_]

Briala. :>

Briala and Gaspard.

Celene with Briala and Gaspard still alive and schemin'.

You played well rabbit but you lost.

Your death today will lead to years of stability.

o.o