4 hours??? What are you doing for 4 hours?
Trying to find all the halla, all the coins, all the dirty secrets? More realistically, thoroughly searching every area before reloading and rushing through the area to get everything before you've lost too much court approval.
I tried to be a completionist the first time. Now I just do the least I have to to progress the plot and get out of there. If there was an option to just skip the whole thing I would.
Now BioWare, I haven't said much of anything about DA:I (or much about anything at all since quitting ME3MP in...August or something), but I have to say something about this.
Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is a stupid mission. And on top of it being all around awful and boring, it offers very little story-wise, rewards-wise, or time-wise. As a result, this mission is a 4 hour (at minimum) filler episode from Lifestyles of the Rich & The Famous.
Hope any and all DLC you plan are nothing like this (aka boring) and also hope this is not a sign of things to come.
First off, let me say how wonderful and amazing this discussion has been so far.
As for your opinions on the mission, they are entirely valid. The mission itself is a thematic waste of time. By dripping your time away into a chamberpot, it creates an atmosphere of intrigue and excitability. This helps create an immersive experience for the audience (the player) through an experience indeed somewhat similar to Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, a dated television series that entertained hundreds. Where you feel it lacks in story, it creates this funky wet blanket of immersion and joy created by the bright minds behind the game. It's not the story or anything else that matters, it's the condensing of a country down into an experience for the player to learn and understand. That's the really hard part for both Bioware and its fans. It takes an entire fictional country and crams every inch of it down the player's throat in such a short amount of time. One mouthful contains all your lore wondering requirements. The way it's all set up is for a quick way of dispensing the true meaning of Orlais to the audience, granting you an enhanced and better experience. In a way, it's really quite brilliant and artfully done. It's smaller so it fits in perfectly within the time constraints of the game, providing what you need, but still allowing a degree of freedom important to the player, letting them be a bumbling fool, an overzealous zealot, a cunning linguist, and a person just rushing to get away from a thematically revolting party with equally revolting characters. Should you have also read the novels, it becomes a part of the tapestry of understanding in your mind cascading into a singularity of infinite immersion, swooping down upon your time, but giving you a better experience even if you haven't read the book. The mission is one of the best missions ever designed. That said, I enjoyed the mission and how deep it was for being an info dump and roleplaying experience, yet I wish Bioware to never create a mission like it ever ever ever ever ever again. I will also speedrun it in all following playthroughs because I dislike the characters since they are all thematically revolting to me and I do not care if any of them win their game.
Annd here we go...
Numbered your points because you just unfairly threw this amazing quest under the bus.
2- All 3 of them were ALWAYS dirty,
I meant Bioware was unfair to all major players. We don't even learn of Briala's control over the Eluvians, she is presented as the bitter lover that was such a disservice to her character I honestly wanted to cry
3- Aside from not wearing a dress, I really don't see what else could Vivienne have done, she had her place, she had her opinion and her fair share of dialogue, she's not in the position to make any decision for you.
Where the hell is her conflict with Celene or Morrigan? Why doesn't she add anything, reveal anything, give you any crucial insight when that is her zone? What a complete waste of her character.
Haha, since Bioware is so fond of hallas, coins and points, she could give us some. lol
4- Well not only do you get to engage in the Game, which by itself is an interesting experience. You also get to dance with the assassin you later get the option to kill or spare and turn her into your jester. You also dig up dirt on every leader which showed just how awful they all are. And yeah halla statues are limited, it's not like you're in a halla statue musuem.
Middle dialogue and collecting hallas isn't an interesting experince. Frankly, the party in Mark of the Assassin had better and engaging gameplay than this
5- That is the single funniest thing I've ever read in my life. No impact? Are you for real? Let me give you an example, when Ghaspard becomes emperor you get wartable missions that allow you to have him move his troops from Fereldan borders, forging peace, to Tevinter borders (which gets recognized in the ending slides.)
War table missions lol
Remember when Bioware let your whole clan die and nobody cared in game? Good times
And it's Gaspard btw
Loved the quest, it's those types of things that makes me love dragon age more than skyrim for example. It takes you to a total different situation that is pretty important to the storyline (if you don't do that, orlais goes into chaos, could be nice if you could left that happen and then having corypheus having half the world at his side, and inquisition trying to take it back, like if you fail this mission, you need to do a follow up of others to fix your error, but this game is already pretty ****** huge as it is.)
I liked Wicked. Not much combat is a huge plus for me. If the entire mission was no combat I would have been even happier. It sucks that being clever is just "hit the middle option" but other than that and the stupid Halla statues, it was great. I would imagine that if you wanted to find all the statues, coins et al it would be a tedious nightmare.
You also get to actually have a choice that isn't all rainbows and sunshine.
I agree that it wasn't particularly well designed, I enjoyed it for the most part though (at least the first time through). But whenever I get around to playing it again I'll probably just rush through it.
First off, let me say how wonderful and amazing this discussion has been so far.
As for your opinions on the mission, they are entirely valid. The mission itself is a thematic waste of time. By dripping your time away into a chamberpot, it creates an atmosphere of intrigue and excitability. This helps create an immersive experience for the audience (the player) through an experience indeed somewhat similar to Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, a dated television series that entertained hundreds. Where you feel it lacks in story, it creates this funky wet blanket of immersion and joy created by the bright minds behind the game. It's not the story or anything else that matters, it's the condensing of a country down into an experience for the player to learn and understand. That's the really hard part for both Bioware and its fans. It takes an entire fictional country and crams every inch of it down the player's throat in such a short amount of time. One mouthful contains all your lore wondering requirements. The way it's all set up is for a quick way of dispensing the true meaning of Orlais to the audience, granting you an enhanced and better experience. In a way, it's really quite brilliant and artfully done. It's smaller so it fits in perfectly within the time constraints of the game, providing what you need, but still allowing a degree of freedom important to the player, letting them be a bumbling fool, an overzealous zealot, a cunning linguist, and a person just rushing to get away from a thematically revolting party with equally revolting characters. Should you have also read the novels, it becomes a part of the tapestry of understanding in your mind cascading into a singularity of infinite immersion, swooping down upon your time, but giving you a better experience even if you haven't read the book. The mission is one of the best missions ever designed. That said, I enjoyed the mission and how deep it was for being an info dump and roleplaying experience, yet I wish Bioware to never create a mission like it ever ever ever ever ever again. I will also speedrun it in all following playthroughs because I dislike the characters since they are all thematically revolting to me and I do not care if any of them win their game.
May I ask what how we see this complexity of the Orlesians in The Winter Palace? I did not read The Masked Empire and my view of the Orlesian Court is purely from DA:I. For me, this was a cliche high court intrigue society without any intrigue. Maybe its the way the game holds your hand as you find the evidence to blackmail the three potential rulers. But mostly, statements on the grand scale of the Game, really muddled my perception;
"The Game might more more dangerous than Corypheous"
"The Game has taken factions more powerful than the Inquisition down with ease"
We never see that. Not once is our Inquisitor ever in danger, even if he/she acts as a total moron during the dialogue scenes. Ambushed by the villain? Pfft, I'll take out her men in a minute. We are always in control, no matter what our PC does. For me, the Winter Palace had lot of hype with no actual substance. The only intrigue in this mission, Viviene turns out to be a cliche Bond villain. Ugh.
Wicked eyes and wicked hearts is the most original main quest in the game. It isn't my favorite, but it is a very enjoyable experience for me. I have not timed it, but it seemed like it lasted about as long as one would expect such a quest to last. 9/10 would be my rating. It would have been a 10 but the romance dances were only 2 seconds long- it could have been a bit longer. 
I see the tradition of yelling "troll!" anytime someone has a different opinion is alive and well. It seems to me that some people like the mission, and some don't.
Ah, the good old BioWare zealots. OP is bringing up a valid point and he/she is a "troll/whining"
Paying attention? What are you paying attention to? Walking from a red circle zone to a red circle zone and picking the middle dialogue option each time? Then the idiot villain reveals itself and you get to pick from 3 generic leaders, on whom we have very little info? Oh wait, and the choice does not matter.
"Wicked Hearts" made me feel stupid and it make me feel that BioWare thinks that its fans are stupid. Here you have a great opportunity to make a investigative quest, where you act as an inquisitor (see what I did there?) and have to piece the evidence together to frame the assassin. Instead, you are pretty much told which dialogue options to pick, you walk from a red circle to another and the idiot villains reveals her plan to the only entity in the palace who can stop her and then leaves her minions to kill him/her. I had to face palm myself so many times during this level. Such a missed opportunity.
Not really being a zealot here, just an observation regarding how pointless this thread is. Although you acting like a demagogue is kind of fun to watch, really.
I didn't have a problem with the mission in the end, and yeah those choices kind of do matter for the world state of Orlais don't they?
Ah who cares really? Just another pointless thread about pointless bickering for pointless opinions that don't really matter. And yes, I am including myself in this. So you didn't like it, you can write thesis lengths reasons why, make yourself feel better, and share the subjectivity of it then.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Now BioWare, I haven't said much of anything about DA:I (or much about anything at all since quitting ME3MP in...August or something), but I have to say something about this.
Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is a stupid mission. And on top of it being all around awful and boring, it offers very little story-wise, rewards-wise, or time-wise. As a result, this mission is a 4 hour (at minimum) filler episode from Lifestyles of the Rich & The Famous.
Hope any and all DLC you plan are nothing like this (aka boring) and also hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Thanks for your time.
Guest_Caladin_*
Bit like The Fade from DA:O, either like it or hate it, i like to call them the marmite missions
I must say, I've enjoyed this quest exponentially more the second and third times around. 
I stress though - I do NOT do a completionist run. I can't recall a single time I've found nice enough equipment for my actual level, so I just do the bare minimum to get through.
I'd liked this mission a lot more without the stupid lose approval for being away from the party mechanic.
I hate feeling like I'm on a timer. And it wasn't even justified like CoTJ.
Now BioWare, I haven't said much of anything about DA:I (or much about anything at all since quitting ME3MP in...August or something), but I have to say something about this.
Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is a stupid mission. And on top of it being all around awful and boring, it offers very little story-wise, rewards-wise, or time-wise. As a result, this mission is a 4 hour (at minimum) filler episode from Lifestyles of the Rich & The Famous.
Hope any and all DLC you plan are nothing like this (aka boring) and also hope this is not a sign of things to come.
Thanks for your time.
Well, I did a 6 hour story-only playthrough (later a 4 hours one), I spent like one hourand a half in WEWH and that because I got 27/30 secret, 9/10 halla statues and other useless things, the save with 4 hours was mainly because I was more straightforward in this mission, you can finish it in like 30 minutes (didn't really count but was fast)
So... how can you spend 4 hours in it? ._."
A mission with very little combat.
How awful
Little combat, few (short) conversations, few cutscenes, and a loooot of roaming around by yourself picking up someone's scandalous private correspondence that they for some reason left on the floor (we don't even get to read it wtf) and unlocking doors full of "secrets" by finding figurines that are also left in the open on the floor. Yay. ZZZzzz...
. The dancing with Flor is amazing, especially...
...if perfomed by a female Dwarf. Male Dwarf is an option too, but bit less ridiculous.
One of my top-most issues with this mission is that I've been playing it as a stealthy-assasin rogue with a masterlock perk. Why would I need a f*ing key into the servant quarters? Why do I need to look for 'gossip' spots (if I'm supposed to stand behind, quiet and unseen)? Why can't I use the Hawke's MotA trick (knock the guard off and move along)?
And my 100% top favourite moment is when the Inquisitor climbs up the garden fence. In front of all those people around the fountain. 'Oh, don't mind me, enjoy the music, I'll be back in a moment!'
Humor is subjective. Don't know if anyone told you.
Same with what makes a quest good and enjoyable for someone.
Go figure.
My only complaint about this mission is the Halla statue stuff. Whoever thought up that idea should talk to come OCD completionists.
So does this typically work for you?
I agree. Orlais was boring. Should've gone literally anywhere else in Thedas. Antiva could've been fun.
I know right? Antiva, Zevran and sex everywhere!
Guest_Donkson_*
Just about peed my pants @ "Lifestyles of the rich and famous".
4 hours though? Yeah... nah.
Once I figured out wtf I was doing I got out of there fast... plus I was kinda happy when I battled it out with Florianne.
Finally, some action!!
I thought it a nice change of pace. I would have liked a frilly dress for my fem-quizzy though, I just felt out of place in the standard getup. I thought the Duchess fight was among the best boss fights in the game too - on my nightmare playthrough she killed me more than any other engagement I had...including the dragons!
As far as only taking the "middle" dialogue option, there is an alternate path by obtaining all three inquisition knowledge perks - the arcane, criminal, and whatever Josie's is called. Together they give you a "crown" option that makes it even easier to obtain court approval. For those who want to try something different in a subsequent playthrough.
Guest_Donkson_*
Thanks Helios.
After 5 PTs it appears I've still missed a lot of the game...
wondering if there is a console command to bypass this, 1st time through was painful and i still have mental boredom scars from it . I'm L22 and this is my black gate i do not wish to go through a 2nd time around.
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