1554 réponses à ce sujet

[Monster20862]

Ok

[DaemionMoadrin]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread would still be active...

 

... collecting materials and crafting are timesinks designed to stretch out the play time of the game. The exploit allowed players to finish the game more quickly and that would have ruined BioWare's PR. Which is why it got fixed. Not because it's a gamebreaking bug or anything but because it changes the time you have to spend in the game. Because once you aren't distracted by the timesinks anymore you'll notice how little actual content and story there actually is in the game, which is definitely not something BioWare wants their customers to realize.

 

MMO mechanics in a SP game are moronic. At least in real MMOs you have an auction house or can trade with other players or have a guild to help you with farming. Oh, and the masterwork mechanic that "remembers" your attempts? What's that supposed to accomplish? Prevent us from save scumming to an all masterwork gear? What for? Is that simulating an MMO environment where you can't save the game? There's no one playing our game but us. Perhaps BioWare needs to remember that.

[Cody]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread would still be active...

 

... collecting materials and crafting are timesinks designed to stretch out the play time of the game. The exploit allowed players to finish the game more quickly and that would have ruined BioWare's PR. Which is why it got fixed. Not because it's a gamebreaking bug or anything but because it changes the time you have to spend in the game. Because once you aren't distracted by the timesinks anymore you'll notice how little actual content and story there actually is in the game, which is definitely not something BioWare wants their customers to realize.

 

MMO mechanics in a SP game are moronic. At least in real MMOs you have an auction house or can trade with other players or have a guild to help you with farming. Oh, and the masterwork mechanic that "remembers" your attempts? What's that supposed to accomplish? Prevent us from save scumming to an all masterwork gear? What for? Is that simulating an MMO environment where you can't save the game? There's no one playing our game but us. Perhaps BioWare needs to remember that.

I agree with the latter but not so much the former. I think this game has a lot to offer. Something that is hard to really enjoy with the level of grinding. Quite frankly the exploits added more re-playability for me. I did my time the first time around. I don't need to spend hours trying to grind for cash and masterwork resources again.

 

I know that was your point, as you explained in your second paragraph. But it really isn't a bad thing that they have going on. I mean; it is, but it can be fine if the RNG of said resources weren't so terrible. And if there was more of said resources in general. Same goes for coin. I mean they could have made getting cash a lot more fun if they added something like bounties or allowed us to own stores that eventually pay us over time, etc.

 

There are many games that go the "mmo" route. The Elder Scrolls series(before ESO) for example are quite close to it. It's just that they added a lot more ways to get what you needed.

 

Hell, the first few Fable games did perfectly when it comes to getting cash. You can own houses, stores, etc and get a nice steady income. With their war map system Bioware could have done that easily.

 

Their system is fine in a sense. But it needs to be improved and more ways to acquire resources and coin need to be added before removing something that actually managed to improve gameplay.

[S Seraff]

Prevent us from save scumming to an all masterwork gear? What for? Is that simulating an MMO environment where you can't save the game? There's no one playing our game but us. Perhaps BioWare needs to remember that.

 

this one really gets me too. rather than have a % chance for masterwork - which make no sense an creates that emotion of frustration games should try to avoid - just have the degree of masterwork be the variable. like, have attributes increased between 10% and 100%, for example.

 

because what we have now is grrr

[DaemionMoadrin]

I agree with the latter but not so much the former. I think this game has a lot to offer. Something that is hard to really enjoy with the level of grinding. Quite frankly the exploits added more re-playability for me. I did my time the first time around. I don't need to spend hours trying to grind for cash and masterwork resources again.

 

I know that was your point, as you explained in your second paragraph. But it really isn't a bad thing that they have going on. I mean; it is, but it can be fine if the RNG of said resources weren't so terrible. And if there was more of said resources in general. Same goes for coin. I mean they could have made getting cash a lot more fun if they added something like bounties or allowed us to own stores that eventually pay us over time, etc.

 

There are many games that go the "mmo" route. The Elder Scrolls series(before ESO) for example are quite close to it. It's just that they added a lot more ways to get what you needed.

 

Hell, the first few Fable games did perfectly when it comes to getting cash. You can own houses, stores, etc and get a nice steady income. With their war map system Bioware could have done that easily.

 

Their system is fine in a sense. But it needs to be improved and more ways to acquire resources and coin need to be added before removing something that actually managed to improve gameplay.

 

I admit my post is colored by my disillusionment over the game. Many little things added up to ultimatively ruin my fun even before I realized the main story of the game accounts only for ~8 hours of the 120 I took to complete all of the game I could. But that's another topic and something I don't want to get into again.

 

I didn't use any exploits, I didn't even know they existed prior to me beating the game. I didn't farm materials, I crafted with what I had and that was plenty to make the endgame pathetically easy. Probably could have solo'ed the last third of the game.

 

I don't have a problem with BioWare fixing bugs and exploits... I have a problem that their priority was fixing the workaround for their broken and frustrating crafting system instead of making that less aggravating. Sometimes I don't understand people. Many players asked for more armor/weapon styles, coloring etc and while those are all good things it feels like paying for a paint job for a car with engine problems. Yeah, it looks nice... but it's still annoying.

 

There are so many things I would change regarding farming/crafting that I basically would have to replace the entire thing. Skyrim's crafting suffered mostly from the UI, once you modded that and got around to salvaging loot, it felt more natural. Still was a bit of a grind but I can deal with ~3h of grinding smithing over a playtime of 200+ hours. In DA:I that is skewed because you basically have to win against the RNG twice just to craft what you want and on top of that T4 material is a limited resource. So you spent a massively inflated number of hours with a part of the game that doesn't progress the story or your character's development. Aside from getting new, shiny gear... which doesn't actually have much of an impact because you can't really tell it's doing anything special if you always upgraded when you could. For example, the change from 170 to 180dps is not something you notice.

[Xiolyrr Zoharei]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread would still be active...

 

... collecting materials and crafting are timesinks designed to stretch out the play time of the game. The exploit allowed players to finish the game more quickly and that would have ruined BioWare's PR. Which is why it got fixed. Not because it's a gamebreaking bug or anything but because it changes the time you have to spend in the game. Because once you aren't distracted by the timesinks anymore you'll notice how little actual content and story there actually is in the game, which is definitely not something BioWare wants their customers to realize.

 

MMO mechanics in a SP game are moronic. At least in real MMOs you have an auction house or can trade with other players or have a guild to help you with farming. Oh, and the masterwork mechanic that "remembers" your attempts? What's that supposed to accomplish? Prevent us from save scumming to an all masterwork gear? What for? Is that simulating an MMO environment where you can't save the game? There's no one playing our game but us. Perhaps BioWare needs to remember that.

 

I think it's safe to say Bioware's PR has been ruined way before DAI. Plus without the exploits, I think more and more players are realizing just how ridiculous the farming and lottery loot really is in DAI.

[Monster20862]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread would still be active...

... collecting materials and crafting are timesinks designed to stretch out the play time of the game. The exploit allowed players to finish the game more quickly and that would have ruined BioWare's PR. Which is why it got fixed. Not because it's a gamebreaking bug or anything but because it changes the time you have to spend in the game. Because once you aren't distracted by the timesinks anymore you'll notice how little actual content and story there actually is in the game, which is definitely not something BioWare wants their customers to realize.

MMO mechanics in a SP game are moronic. At least in real MMOs you have an auction house or can trade with other players or have a guild to help you with farming. Oh, and the masterwork mechanic that "remembers" your attempts? What's that supposed to accomplish? Prevent us from save scumming to an all masterwork gear? What for? Is that simulating an MMO environment where you can't save the game? There's no one playing our game but us. Perhaps BioWare needs to remember that.

I actually played longer games when using the exploits so this does not make sense to me.

[SofaJockey]

...They're welcome to their opinion, and it is an open forum so as long as everyone's keeping it civil...

 

This^^. Debate is good, even if you are on the wrong side of the thread's sentiment.

 

At the start of this thread I believed that an exploit was best fixed on principle.

 

Bocochocos analysis helped me to understand (and adjusted my view) that in a single player environment, arguing for a fix is mean spirited if others find it helps their enjoyment of the game.

 

I remain of the view that the chances of BioWare rolling back an exploit fix are effectively nil. 

 

I would no longer call for an exploit fix just for the sake of it but respect BioWare's decision if they have something to address the reason why the exploit was popularly used, such as by including materials and so on, in the Emporium.

[Bocochoco]

This^^. Debate is good, even if you are on the wrong side of the thread's sentiment.
 
At the start of this thread I believed that an exploit was best fixed on principle.
 
Bocochocos analysis helped me to understand (and adjusted my view) that in a single player environment, arguing for a fix is mean spirited if others find it helps their enjoyment of the game.
 
I remain of the view that the chances of BioWare rolling back an exploit fix are effectively nil. 
 
I would no longer call for an exploit fix just for the sake of it but respect BioWare's decision if they have something to address the reason why the exploit was popularly used, such as by including materials and so on, in the Emporium.

While I may be inclined to agree I would have to note that removing the exploits before a fix for the need is a poor decision and I don't believe the emporium was designed to address these issues but rather to give more reason to grind so that one may purchase materials through the emporium itself.

[SofaJockey]

While I may be inclined to agree I would have to note that removing the exploits before a fix for the need is a poor decision and I don't believe the emporium was designed to address these issues but rather to give more reason to grind so that one may purchase materials through the emporium itself.

 

I never thought I would say this, but I have learned much from following this thread

I think we are largely in accord...

 

I guess we will see what the Emporium brings, but yes if the Emporium is the 'fix' it would have been better to have concurrently switched off the exploits then.

As far as purchase is concerned, be thankful it doesn't contain microtransactions 

(surely ) 

[Dr. Rush]

BAD BIOWARE! BAD USE OF ZOTS!

 

DONT INSTALL THE PATCH!

 

LONG LIVE THE DUPE! 

[Bocochoco]

I never thought I would say this, but I have learned much from following this thread
I think we are largely in accord...
 
I guess we will see what the Emporium brings, but yes if the Emporium is the 'fix' it would have been better to have concurrently switched off the exploits then.
As far as purchase is concerned, be thankful it doesn't contain microtransactions 
(surely )

Lol SURELY all that manpower won't come with a pricetag! Lol

[Monster20862]

What's that sound? A toilet flushing? Good bye bioware...

[CenturyCrow]

Great thread.

 

I got DA:I just before the dupe was 'fixed,' so I didn't have much opportunity to use it. Plus I was caught up in learning the game, the size of Thedas, adjusting to change of game play mechanics from DA:O/DA2, etc.

 

I'd agree there's a lot of fill and the RNG just stretches out the game and farming wastes time. But that all creates some unintended consequences. Since it's a lot of effort to outfit all of the characters–why would I bother with RNG farming?–much more economical to stick with a limited group I can easily outfit and upgrade. So my current play through will be to ignore companions I don't want/need simply because it's a lot of wasted effort to equip and upgrade them continually.

 

Look at all the effort to create so many companions, multiple dialog threads/consequences, all the voice acting and co-ordination that just might be ignored simply because of a lack of resources. Way too many of these resources (or specific currencies–you need 4 of a rare item) are limited with no alternatives–so they will be skipped. And to add insult to injury, once a requisition is filled, taking away a good chunk of crafting mats, Requisition Officers immediately offer to take more.

 

Look at all the junk 'valuables' you get that just soak up space but you tend to keep them just to get more money. If you had a more generous supply of funds, you'd be able to experiment with all your companions and actually take more time to do more enjoyable things in the game, instead wasting time farming. Alternate ways of accumulating or converting unwanted items into needed items could add some variety to the game. 

[AlanC9]

I'd agree there's a lot of fill and the RNG just stretches out the game and farming wastes time. But that all creates some unintended consequences. Since it's a lot of effort to outfit all of the characters–why would I bother with RNG farming?–much more economical to stick with a limited group I can easily outfit and upgrade. So my current play through will be to ignore companions I don't want/need simply because it's a lot of wasted effort to equip and upgrade them continually.

Isn't that the case with every game with loot, though?

[Cody]

Lol SURELY all that manpower won't come with a pricetag! Lol

 

Well to be fair; The Extended Cut and all the MP DLC for ME3 was completely free despite a lot of manpower being involved in all of them. So you never know.

[Bocochoco]

Well to be fair; The Extended Cut and all the MP DLC for ME3 was completely free despite a lot of manpower being involved in all of them. So you never know.

EA's new CEO is really trying to change the face of the company and his first year EA dropped from the #1 most hated spot so the direction so far is good but if BW claims to be fully independent then maybe they should also try to change their current status as well. From most I've seen, the fans have been unhappy and a lot are simply turning off. They need to address this and not leave the debate up to thousands of replies and tens of pages in their forums without a response.

[Monster20862]

EA's new CEO is really trying to change the face of the company and his first year EA dropped from the #1 most hated spot so the direction so far is good but if BW claims to be fully independent then maybe they should also try to change their current status as well. From most I've seen, the fans have been unhappy and a lot are simply turning off. They need to address this and not leave the debate up to thousands of replies and tens of pages in their forums without a response.

Bioware really needs to say something. This complete silence is beginning to annoy me greatly.

[SofaJockey]

Bioware really needs to say something. This complete silence is beginning to annoy me greatly.

 

They have said something, the exploit removal was detailed in the patch notes.

BioWare interaction on the multiplayer boards is reasonable and BioWare are speaking at conventions and in articles.

[sleasye74]

Hey this is really off topic but it's pissing me off, DAI crashed on me a sh*t load and ever since I played DAI now all my games are f*cking crashing on my xbone, is it possible that the constant crashing from DAI did something to my xbone?
I asked Microsoft about it and they said that they think it was something from DAI(BW) or EA(origin)
Sorry for going off topic but if DAI did this to my xbone that's pretty f*cked up

[Vit246]

I miss exploits. And cheat codes in games.

[Monster20862]

They have said something, the exploit removal was detailed in the patch notes.
BioWare interaction on the multiplayer boards is reasonable and BioWare are speaking at conventions and in articles.

It wasn't detailed, it was vaguely mentioned. They also didn't fix the exploit itself, you can still farm chests for loot, they just removed the amulets of power. And they've said nothing further on the subject considering there are thousands of people upset that bioware takes out fun parts but leaves the game broken.

[Monster20862]

Keeping this posting active because it's the most important thing in the known universe.

[Bocochoco]

Any chance today's new patch removed any more exploits?

[Lestatman]

New Patch and DLC with still no news on bringing back exploits.  Kind of what I was expecting from Bioware.