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[DaemionMoadrin]

May contain traces of spoilers.

 

As I completed the main quest, there were quite a few things that didn't really make sense to me.

 

Why did Solas give the orb to Corypheus? He must have known it was a mistake, Solas isn't stupid.

Why did Corypheus sacrifice the Divine? There was no actual reason to go after her.

Why did the Divine think the Inquisition would change anything? If she had declared it after the Conclave failed, then it would have been a powerless organisation without a cause to rally behind.

Why were the Left and Right Hand of the Divine not with her at the Conclave? Weren't they supposed to protect her?

Why does no one blink when Solas insists that the Mark needs to grow stronger to seal the breach?

Why does no one tell the Inquisitor that they are being used and are merely a figurehead?

... and quite a lot more.

 

Well. With a few changes to the story we can close most, if not all, plot holes and answer those questions.

 

With hardened fronts on every side a diplomatic resolution of the mage/templar conflict was highly unlikely. They didn't even have enough trust to send their leaders. The Divine knew that for peace to return there had to be a common enemy and there was none available. That is, unless she created one. She had reached the end of her life anyway (perhaps was deathly ill and didn't have long left to live), so she ordered Leliana and Cassandra to rig the lyrium beneath the Temple of Sacred Ashes to explode. Her death and the death of all the mages and templars would allow the creation of a new Inquisition to find those responsible, with volunteers to join its ranks. It would be the opportunity to restore the Circles, the Templar Order and the Chantry.

 

Of course, something went wrong. The explosion was much bigger than anticipated and ripped a hole into the Fade. Ripples from the breach spread across the Fade, stirring up old things long forgotten. The Inquisitor is the biggest surprise though. While almost all people at the temple perished instantly in the explosion, they were at the right distance to be thrown into the Fade before the shockwave from the explosion could kill them. There's still a spirit helping them to get out and it does so by bestowing the Mark on the PC. Partial possession perhaps? Memories of an elven artifact made real through the incredible amount of magic energy from the explosion? A combination of those factors in proximity of the rift? Anyway, the PC falls out of the Fade and is being captured.

 

Leliana and Cassandra still deal with an unknown situation and make things up as they go. The difference is that they know full well who's behind the explosion. More importantly, now they have an even better cause and even a shiny new figurehead. Solas joins them because he recognizes that this power is something he needs for his own plans and Varric is the same as always. Josephine and Cullen are brought in because of their expertise and the Inquisition is starting.

 

The mission is to close all the rifts with the help of the Mark, which will give it more power until it becomes possible to close the Breach itself. That's the main reason the Inquisitor has to visit every last area in Ferelden and Orlais. It also explains why the mage/templar conflict doesn't seem quite as important. Once you ally with one side, the other one will attack Haven and cause an avalanche to bury it. You have to flee and Solas leads you to Skyhold.

 

After a while you notice that you aren't in power. Your advisors didn't even ask you before making you leader, they are responsible for the "Herald of Andraste" story and they lead the Inquisition in your name. You don't get much of an input, they keep you busy with picking out decorations, judging goat throwers and pseudo meetings at the war table. By the time you notice that you never get to meet any dignitaries or visiting nobles, that you aren't in command of your growing army and that you have no idea what your spies are up to, it's almost too late. Varric is the one who points it out to you, his animosity for Cassandra finally overrides his common sense.

 

You and most of your companions have to flee before Leliana has you removed. Vivienne sides with the Inquistion for more power. The Inquisition becomes your enemy, they now blame you for the explosion and put a bounty on your head. Luckily you have Varric's, Sera's and Iron Bull's connections. Blackwall and Cole can't contribute much but every little bit of help is welcome. Solas still pushes you to close the remaining rifts. 

 

What about Corypheus, you ask? Well, he died during DA2:Legacy. Weak villain. Him surviving always made Hawke and Varric look bad. And let's be honest, Leliana is much more scary than he could ever be. Cassandra had some doubts at first but now she's too far in to turn back. They do what needs to be done, bloody hands and guilty consiences be damned.

 

What about the Grey Wardens? Well, they side with the Inquistion of course. The Breach is just as dangerous as the Blight and their treaties help to get more support.

 

What about Empress Celene? Well, perhaps you sneak into Halamshiral to sabotage a treaty between the Inquistion and Orlais. Maybe that's also a good opportunity to tell everyone the truth and perhaps gain the support of at least one side of the civil war.

 

Betrayal lurks close throughout the game. If you displease Varric or Sera, they will abandon you. Iron Bull is a mercenary and a spy for the Qun. He's not actually on your side, he just sticks around until someone makes him a better offer. Blackwall is a liar anyway, Cole is unreliable and Solas... hah.

 

It's you vs. the world. The organisation you helped build, the people you recruited... they are now your worst enemy. All the time you fight them Solas is waiting for your Mark to become powerful enough, then he'll use it for his own purposes, even if it means stabbing you in the back.

 

Your private war against the Inquistion can't be won by defeating their soldiers and agents in the field. No, you need to take out their leaders. Solas helps you by showing you a hidden passage that allows you to sneak into Skyhold through the dungeons. An epic battle ensues, pitting you against all your recruited agents, Cullen with his soldiers and finally, Leliana, Cassandra, Vivienne as boss battle. I'm fairly sure that would be a lot more difficult than Corypheus. Josephine can be reasoned with, if you don't kill her, too. Once the threat of the Inquisition is gone, you can close the Breach itself, bringing your Mark to full power.

 

Once the world is safe again, Solas uses the opportunity to betray you. He uses (blood) magic to control your remaining companions and knocks you out. You wake up tied to a ritual circle designed to transfer the Mark from you to Solas. He succeeds but both of you are throw into the Fade once more. You manage to get away and run into Flemeth, who tells you that Solas plans to use the Mark to unlock a special Eluvian and free the elven gods. She redirects you to her daughter, who should be able to help. You stumble out of Morrigan's Eluvian and somehow manage to convince her. Together you make your way to the temple of Mythal, to gain the knowledge necessary to find Solas and stop him.

 

One of you takes the power of the Well of Sorrows, fly to Solas on a tamed/transformed dragon and interrupt his plans. During the multi-phase battle Solas exhausts the power of the Mark and flees defeated, once more unable to unlock the Eluvian. You win! Post credit scene is the same, with Solas taking Flemeth's power. Cue sequel.

 

 

Leliana would make such a good villain and Cassandra is an excellent second in command. It would make for a much better story if you could show their grey morality, their descent, their justifications for all the wrongs they do. A hardened Leliana is not above kidnapping, assassinations, blackmail, torture and maiming... and she's considered one of the good guys. Take it a step further and you get a scary antagonist.

 

It's not necessary to pit more and more demons against the Inquisitor. Red Templars, mutations... that's not so scary. A world where you have to hide your identity, where you can't stay in any one place too long, where everyone hates you and wants your bounty... well... that's a dark and gritty story. 

 

 

^^

[DaemionMoadrin]

Too much text or a bad idea? Or both?

[Rawgrim]

The villain was one gigantic plot hole. The story crumbled because of it.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The villain was one gigantic plot hole. The story crumbled because of it.

 

Yes, that's why you can leave him out completely. ^^

[Innsmouth Dweller]

spoiler alert

 

EDIT:

 

as for the orb and Corypheus. well, you give a powerful artifact to a blighted darkspawn only if:

1. you're sure blighted darkspawn will activate the artifact and give it back to you for some obvious reason (being/posing as an old god is as good reason as any)

2. you're sure the process of activating artifact will destroy the blighted darkspawn (darkspawn trusts you or you're able to trick old and powerful mage)

 

darkspawn's familiarity with the object is not irrelevant (according to Dorian/Solas banter such artifacts were used by magisters, or at least magisters knew about them). this scrap of information makes option 1 more probable, well... unless Solas tampered with the orb somehow.

 

but then again it might be just another plot hole, lack of coffee after a long sleep or extremely strange morality combined with duplicity in action.

 

 

good alternate story tho :3

[DaemionMoadrin]

spoiler alert

 

Right.

[robertmarilyn]

I like the Solas character but he loses something with me when he's ranting about choices others make as idiot when it looks to me like he did some very, very idiot things. Unless his giving the orb to Cory is explained much better or at all, I'm going to think he's just not very smart. That kind of ruins my respect for him so I try not to think about it much. 

[MikeJW]

1. Solas might not be stupid but he constantly underestimates others. From what I gather he was too weak to use the Orb or maybe even activate it. He needed a patsy and found Cory. I think he thought the Orb would kill Cory when he activated it, maybe why he himslef didn't try to activate it but he underestimated Cory.

 

2. He's trying to establish himslef as a god and is kind of a show off. What better way to claim godhood than by killing the earthly representative of the Maker and ascend to godhood from that sacrifice. Cory doesn't just want to take over the world as an emperor, he wants to become a god.

 

3. The Inquisition after a failed conclave would have the blessing, money and support of the  Chantry and the common people of Thedas. Since it would be an official part of the Chantry with undisputed support of the Chantry than the Inquisition would also get support from nobles who want to stay on the Chantrys good side. An Inquisition with official Divine support would be a very powerful organization.

 

4. Good question.

 

5. Solas knew enough about the breach magic to keep you alive and he was right that you could close rifts. When someone has shown to be right about something already you tend to think they may have an idea.

 

6. Quit a few people do say you are a symbol even if you don't believe you are chosen by the Divine. Mother Gissel pretty much says you are a figure head if you dont believe.

[DaemionMoadrin]

1. Solas might not be stupid but he constantly underestimates others. From what I gather he was too weak to use the Orb or maybe even activate it. He needed a patsy and found Cory. I think he thought the Orb would kill Cory when he activated it, maybe why he himslef didn't try to activate it but he underestimated Cory.

 

2. He's trying to establish himslef as a god and is kind of a show off. What better way to claim godhood than by killing the earthly representative of the Maker and ascend to godhood from that sacrifice. Cory doesn't just want to take over the world as an emperor, he wants to become a god.

 

3. The Inquisition after a failed conclave would have the blessing, money and support of the  Chantry and the common people of Thedas. Since it would be an official part of the Chantry with undisputed support of the Chantry than the Inquisition would also get support from nobles who want to stay on the Chantrys good side. An Inquisition with official Divine support would be a very powerful organization.

 

4. Good question.

 

5. Solas knew enough about the breach magic to keep you alive and he was right that you could close rifts. When someone has shown to be right about something already you tend to think they may have an idea.

 

6. Quit a few people do say you are a symbol even if you don't believe you are chosen by the Divine. Mother Gissel pretty much says you are a figure head if you dont believe.

 

1. Possible but it's still a huge risk.

 

2.The Divine isn't the pope. The belief in Thedas is that the Maker turned his back on them, that they were abandoned for their sins. The Chantry's purpose is spreading Andraste's Chant of Light all over the world, in the faint hope that it will reach the Maker. They are basically crying for attention and are clearly not representing the Maker or any other god.

 

3. No. The Chantry's power were the templars and the Seekers. Both left. The Chantry only has some fragments of its former power left and it is using those up to stay alive. No Circles, no mages, no templars, no Seekers... they only have their clerics and that's it. After the Conclave they'd look even weaker for not managing to broker peace between their two former charges. Realistically, who would even be around to join the Inquisition? The vast majority of the mages would be with the rebels and almost all the templars would be opposing them. Where would the Inquisition even get their new soldiers? It would also always have the stigma of being created by the Divine herself, people would see the organisation as her puppet.

 

4. Indeed. At least one of them should have been with the Divine.

 

5. That's my point exactly! Imagine the situation: A huge explosion leveled the entire mountain top where the Temple of Sacred Ashes used to be and opened a Breach in the sky, from which demons appear. Out of nowhere comes an elven apostate who claims to know about it and that's not suspicious? Yes, Cassandra questioned him but seriously? Remember the scene when you meet him the first time? He grabs your hand and uses your Mark to close the rift that way. How did he know that would work? And later, when the mages/templars fail to close the Breach and you nearly die, he claims that if your Mark becomes more powerful, then it will be able to close the Breach. And no one questions him. Those two occurences made him -very- suspicious to me and when he later showed us the way to Skyhold and started the mural and you read the notes about it ... duh. He's so obviously hiding something, it couldn't be more obvious if he had a pink neon sign floating over his head. Elves aren't immortal but he casually displays a deep knowledge that requires decades of study while also being a master painter and an accomplished mage. He's even comfortable at court, ffs! Something doesn't add up and no one ever questions him.

 

6. No no. That's not what I mean. Well, somehow it is. There's a difference between being a symbol for the people and being used as figure head by your trusted advisors. The Herald of Andraste is the symbol... the Inquisitor is the figure head. For being the leader you have surprisingly little to do. Not once do you even use the desk in your room. Even if you contact your family/clan, your advisors write the letter for you.

 

I could list a dozen other questions/plot holes but at some point it becomes nitpicky. No fiction stands up well to intense scrutiny.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I like the Solas character but he loses something with me when he's ranting about choices others make as idiot when it looks to me like he did some very, very idiot things. Unless his giving the orb to Cory is explained much better or at all, I'm going to think he's just not very smart. That kind of ruins my respect for him so I try not to think about it much. 

 

Yes, it's a plot hole. He can't be the cunning Dreadwolf and then give his focus of power to some half-crazed magister darkspawn. Especially not when he had other options, like asking freaking Flemeth/Mythal for help.

[MikeJW]

1. Possible but it's still a huge risk.

 

2.The Divine isn't the pope. The belief in Thedas is that the Maker turned his back on them, that they were abandoned for their sins. The Chantry's purpose is spreading Andraste's Chant of Light all over the world, in the faint hope that it will reach the Maker. They are basically crying for attention and are clearly not representing the Maker or any other god.

 

3. No. The Chantry's power were the templars and the Seekers. Both left. The Chantry only has some fragments of its former power left and it is using those up to stay alive. No Circles, no mages, no templars, no Seekers... they only have their clerics and that's it. After the Conclave they'd look even weaker for not managing to broker peace between their two former charges. Realistically, who would even be around to join the Inquisition? The vast majority of the mages would be with the rebels and almost all the templars would be opposing them. Where would the Inquisition even get their new soldiers? It would also always have the stigma of being created by the Divine herself, people would see the organisation as her puppet.

 

4. Indeed. At least one of them should have been with the Divine.

 

5. That's my point exactly! Imagine the situation: A huge explosion leveled the entire mountain top where the Temple of Sacred Ashes used to be and opened a Breach in the sky, from which demons appear. Out of nowhere comes an elven apostate who claims to know about it and that's not suspicious? Yes, Cassandra questioned him but seriously? Remember the scene when you meet him the first time? He grabs your hand and uses your Mark to close the rift that way. How did he know that would work? And later, when the mages/templars fail to close the Breach and you nearly die, he claims that if your Mark becomes more powerful, then it will be able to close the Breach. And no one questions him. Those two occurences made him -very- suspicious to me and when he later showed us the way to Skyhold and started the mural and you read the notes about it ... duh. He's so obviously hiding something, it couldn't be more obvious if he had a pink neon sign floating over his head. Elves aren't immortal but he casually displays a deep knowledge that requires decades of study while also being a master painter and an accomplished mage. He's even comfortable at court, ffs! Something doesn't add up and no one ever questions him.

 

6. No no. That's not what I mean. Well, somehow it is. There's a difference between being a symbol for the people and being used as figure head by your trusted advisors. The Herald of Andraste is the symbol... the Inquisitor is the figure head. For being the leader you have surprisingly little to do. Not once do you even use the desk in your room. Even if you contact your family/clan, your advisors write the letter for you.

 

I could list a dozen other questions/plot holes but at some point it becomes nitpicky. No fiction stands up well to intense scrutiny.

 

2. The Divine is still the Makers representative on Thedas. Religion unites the people, Josephine has a speech on this. By killing the Divine you are assaulting the religion and saying you are more powerful than the Divine. I mean, you might be right but does Cory grasp it like you do? He's been gone over 1000 years and to him he would see the Divine like I do.

 

3. The Chantrys power is in the religion, in that it is a shared belief of Thedas. There was never enough Templars or Seekers to rule over the land. I doubt there is enough Templars to even put down most rowdy nobles. The nobles are Andrastian and at least pay lip service to the Chantry and I imagine the Chantry plays hard ball politics. The Inquisition would get soldiers from the nobles who would want favors in the future. Even after the conclave blows up and it has no templars or mages or leadership it still has lots of power because of the perception of power.

[Winged Silver]

 

Why did Solas give the orb to Corypheus? He must have known it was a mistake, Solas isn't stupid.

 

I can't say I have any real idea, but my initial impression was that Solas was trying to play Corypheus and the Inquisitor off each. How Corypheus might've powered the orb using specifically the Divine? No clue. I dunno if that's Bioware trying to be secretive or just not having any idea. Guess we'll see in DLC/DA4. As for him using the Divine....doesn't the Tevinter Imperium regard the Southern Chantry as blasphemous? Even though Cory's going for God hood, we still do hear him invoke the Old Gods a couple of times. He might've been trying to make a statement of religion by taking out the 'false' Divine (given that the Imperium has a male divine known as the "Black Divine" by the Southern Andrastians). 

 

As for why Leliana and Cassandra weren't present...good point. They never explained it, but from what I understood, they weren't bodyguards so much as henchmen. They may have been off doing work for her (I know, kinda weak, but unless something comes out of left field I'm not sure what else makes sense as for why they weren't there). 

 

Considering how no one seemed fazed when Solas said the mark needed to grow stronger...I thought that was kind of implied? Like you see your Inquisitor get knocked out just by slapping a makeshift fade bandaid on the rift. It seems to make sense that maybe you need to be stronger to fully close it. Just my take.

 

The Inquisitor as a figurehead...I'm not sure I understand what you mean? If you meant that the Inquisitor was a figurehead for Cassandra and Leliana, why was the Inquisitor the one making pretty much all the big decisions? Unless you think there's a conspiracy underfoot? Or do you mean that the Inquisitor is a figurehead for someone else? Not to be interrogative ^.^ I'm just not sure I understand what you mean here is all. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

2. The Divine is still the Makers representative on Thedas. Religion unites the people, Josephine has a speech on this. By killing the Divine you are assaulting the religion and saying you are more powerful than the Divine. I mean, you might be right but does Cory grasp it like you do? He's been gone over 1000 years and to him he would see the Divine like I do.

 

3. The Chantrys power is in the religion, in that it is a shared belief of Thedas. There was never enough Templars or Seekers to rule over the land. I doubt there is enough Templars to even put down most rowdy nobles. The nobles are Andrastian and at least pay lip service to the Chantry and I imagine the Chantry plays hard ball politics. The Inquisition would get soldiers from the nobles who would want favors in the future. Even after the conclave blows up and it has no templars or mages or leadership it still has lots of power because of the perception of power.

 

The problem with your theory is... Corypheus never announced that he killed the Divine. The people of Thedas have no clue who's behind it until much later.

 

The Chantry has some power left, that is true. But a newly formed Inquisition? Where would they get power? Or even people? Your first agents/soldiers are the dozen guys Cassandra and Leliana brought with them, probably the remnants of the Divine's honor guard. Later you recruit refugees... but most of them wouldn't even exist without the Breach. Soooo... their Inquisition would have never taken off like yours.

 

BioWare does that all the time. Their stories often only make sense from the protagonist's perspective. For example... Mass Effect. The Normandy's first mission was to go to Eden Prime, acquire the Prothean Beacon and bring it back to the Citadel. At the same time a Spectre was evaluating Shepard's performance so the council could decide if they are good enough. Only... according to the mission profile the chance for combat was very, very low. Basically, if Saren hadn't attacked, Shepard would have landed on Eden Prime, overseen the transport of the beacon into Normandy's hold, then signed a few forms and that was it. And don't tell me that they might have flown somewhere else for the combat, not with an unique and priceless artifact on board.

The story only worked out because the attack happened. Otherwise it wouldn't have made sense.

[Spectre Impersonator]

The plot holes were continually niggling at me but I'm totally happy to overlook blatant plot holes if the story is told in a fun and exciting way. Sadly, it wasn't.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I can't say I have any real idea, but my initial impression was that Solas was trying to play Corypheus and the Inquisitor off each. How Corypheus might've powered the orb using specifically the Divine? No clue. I dunno if that's Bioware trying to be secretive or just not having any idea. Guess we'll see in DLC/DA4. As for him using the Divine....doesn't the Tevinter Imperium regard the Southern Chantry as blasphemous? Even though Cory's going for God hood, we still do hear him invoke the Old Gods a couple of times. He might've been trying to make a statement of religion by taking out the 'false' Divine (given that the Imperium has a male divine known as the "Black Divine" by the Southern Andrastians). 

 

As for why Leliana and Cassandra weren't present...good point. They never explained it, but from what I understood, they weren't bodyguards so much as henchmen. They may have been off doing work for her (I know, kinda weak, but unless something comes out of left field I'm not sure what else makes sense as for why they weren't there). 

 

Considering how no one seemed fazed when Solas said the mark needed to grow stronger...I thought that was kind of implied? Like you see your Inquisitor get knocked out just by slapping a makeshift fade bandaid on the rift. It seems to make sense that maybe you need to be stronger to fully close it. Just my take.

 

The Inquisitor as a figurehead...I'm not sure I understand what you mean? If you meant that the Inquisitor was a figurehead for Cassandra and Leliana, why was the Inquisitor the one making pretty much all the big decisions? Unless you think there's a conspiracy underfoot? Or do you mean that the Inquisitor is a figurehead for someone else? Not to be interrogative ^.^ I'm just not sure I understand what you mean here is all. 

 

It doesn't make for a good story if you have to make up the explanations and motivations of the characters yourself.

 

How do you get stronger? I mean, it's not like the people in Thedas "level up". My character certaintly didn't look weak or sick. How are you supposed to gather strength? All you do during the entire game is gather influence for your organisation but your personal, physical power doesn't change much.

 

The Inquisitor is a figurehead because they aren't in control of the Inquisition. Aside from judging half a dozen people over the course of the story they never get to display their power and the judgements don't really matter. They are all defeated enemies.

Remember Vigil's Keep in Awakening? Or Crossroad Keep in NWN2? Remember how you had to deal with the nobles yourself? How you decided what your patrols were doing? How you negotiated with merchants so they would come to your keep? You do none of that as Inquisitor. Instead you are busy picking out the new decorations, planting flowers and doing what your advisors tell you.

Not once do you get to deal with anything important. Gathering support in the Chantry? Not your decision. Going to Skyhold? Not your decision. Building an army? Not your decision. Being made leader? Not your decision. War table missions? Hah. It goes on and on.

Shouldn't you build a road to connect Skyhold to the rest of the world? How are you feeding your growing army? What about the finances? Why do you have to be frugal with your money when there is a huge amount of gold (and Scrooge McDuck's hat) in your vault?

Have you ever heard of any leader who had not a single piece of paperwork to read/sign? Cullen can't even finish his first chat with you without being interrupted by a messenger with a report. And you? You have a shiny, new office in your chambers... which you don't use even once.

As a dalish elf, you don't even get to contact your clan on your own. No, your advisors take care of that for you. Because they know much better how to handle your family...

[DaemionMoadrin]

The plot holes were continually niggling at me but I'm totally happy to overlook blatant plot holes if the story is told in a fun and exciting way. Sadly, it wasn't.

 

If playing a game is an enjoyable experience, then you can overlook a lot. The story can be predictable, the gameplay can be clunky, the NPCs can be onedimensional... but if the game is more tedious than fun, then its other shortcomings only become more noticeable.

 

No BioWare game ever had a brilliant, deep story. But almost all their games were fun. The entire package just worked, they got the balance just right. That's what's off with DA:I.

[MikeJW]

The problem with your theory is... Corypheus never announced that he killed the Divine. The people of Thedas have no clue who's behind it until much later.

 

The Chantry has some power left, that is true. But a newly formed Inquisition? Where would they get power? Or even people? Your first agents/soldiers are the dozen guys Cassandra and Leliana brought with them, probably the remnants of the Divine's honor guard. Later you recruit refugees... but most of them wouldn't even exist without the Breach. Soooo... their Inquisition would have never taken off like yours.

 

BioWare does that all the time. Their stories often only make sense from the protagonist's perspective. For example... Mass Effect. The Normandy's first mission was to go to Eden Prime, acquire the Prothean Beacon and bring it back to the Citadel. At the same time a Spectre was evaluating Shepard's performance so the council could decide if they are good enough. Only... according to the mission profile the chance for combat was very, very low. Basically, if Saren hadn't attacked, Shepard would have landed on Eden Prime, overseen the transport of the beacon into Normandy's hold, then signed a few forms and that was it. And don't tell me that they might have flown somewhere else for the combat, not with an unique and priceless artifact on board.

The story only worked out because the attack happened. Otherwise it wouldn't have made sense.

 

Cory doesnt announce he killed the Divine because he got blown up. Imagine if it had went to plan:you have all these people there for the conclave as witnesses. Here comes Cory, kills the Divine in front of them. He was probably going to let some of them leave just to spread the word but something went wrong, or maybe like it should if I know Solas like I think, and the whole thing went boom and everyone, including COry died.

 

We were talking about an Inquisition if the conclave hadn't blown up. The soldiers would have come from the nobles who would want favors done in the future, from people who want influence with the church, from mercenaries being paid for from the Vhantries coffers and from the true believers. It would be filled by the faithful and the opportunist, the zelous and the agnostic who see an opportunity An Inquisition with official, undisputed support of a living Divine would have a lot of power. Look at how fast yours grows once people start believing you are the Herald.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Cory doesnt announce he killed the Divine because he got blown up. Imagine if it had went to plan:you have all these people there for the conclave as witnesses. Here comes Cory, kills the Divine in front of them. He was probably going to let some of them leave just to spread the word but something went wrong, or maybe like it should if I know Solas like I think, and the whole thing went boom and everyone, including COry died.

 

We were talking about an Inquisition if the conclave hadn't blown up. The soldiers would have come from the nobles who would want favors done in the future, from people who want influence with the church, from mercenaries being paid for from the Vhantries coffers and from the true believers. It would be filled by the faithful and the opportunist, the zelous and the agnostic who see an opportunity An Inquisition with official, undisputed support of a living Divine would have a lot of power. Look at how fast yours grows once people start believing you are the Herald.

 

You have a point there.

 

I still don't think the nobles would have been eager to contribute to the Inquisition that quickly, especially not if it was to be seperate from the Chantry itself. The Inquisition is -not- the Chantry, after all.

[Spectre Impersonator]

If playing a game is an enjoyable experience, then you can overlook a lot. The story can be predictable, the gameplay can be clunky, the NPCs can be onedimensional... but if the game is more tedious than fun, then its other shortcomings only become more noticeable.

 

No BioWare game ever had a brilliant, deep story. But almost all their games were fun. The entire package just worked, they got the balance just right. That's what's off with DA:I.

True. Many of Bioware's previous games have been visually unpolished or had plain boring combat but the heart of the game keeps you playing and keeps you caring. DAI feels like a soulless product to me.

 

When Solas was crying like a little girl over his broken globe saying "So much has been lost" I was like... "Don't care." When Lelianna was trying to tell me where he went and why we should look for him, I said "Corypheus is dead, that's all that matters." But apparently the game wants me to buy its sequel so I'm supposed to care more about the cliffhanger than I am the actual story I just paid for.

[MikeJW]

Well the Inquisition would be backed by the Chantry but not part of it but I think we just disagree on how much the nobles would do. And you know, who knows. Maybe the Divine thought like me but in reality if it had happened maybe you would have been right. Just because the Divine or someone in the story thinks it would have turned out one way doesnt mean they were way off with how ht world would react.

[DaemionMoadrin]

True. Many of Bioware's previously games have been visually unpolished or had plain boring combat but the heart of the game keeps you playing and keeps you caring. DAI feels like a soulless product to me.

 

Yes! It's shiny but empty. All the usual elements are there but they aren't in balance. The recipe didn't work this time and you can see where they left parts unfinished and where they rushed.

 

Well the Inquisition would be backed by the Chantry but not part of it but I think we just disagree on how much the nobles would do. And you know, who knows. Maybe the Divine thought like me but in reality if it had happened maybe you would have been right. Just because the Divine or someone in the story thinks it would have turned out one way doesnt mean they were way off with how ht world would react.

 

Yeah, you're right. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[Winged Silver]

It doesn't make for a good story if you have to make up the explanations and motivations of the characters yourself.

 

How do you get stronger? I mean, it's not like the people in Thedas "level up". My character certaintly didn't look weak or sick. How are you supposed to gather strength? All you do during the entire game is gather influence for your organisation but your personal, physical power doesn't change much.

 

The Inquisitor is a figurehead because they aren't in control of the Inquisition. Aside from judging half a dozen people over the course of the story they never get to display their power and the judgements don't really matter. They are all defeated enemies.

Remember Vigil's Keep in Awakening? Or Crossroad Keep in NWN2? Remember how you had to deal with the nobles yourself? How you decided what your patrols were doing? How you negotiated with merchants so they would come to your keep? You do none of that as Inquisitor. Instead you are busy picking out the new decorations, planting flowers and doing what your advisors tell you.

Not once do you get to deal with anything important. Gathering support in the Chantry? Not your decision. Going to Skyhold? Not your decision. Building an army? Not your decision. Being made leader? Not your decision. War table missions? Hah. It goes on and on.

Shouldn't you build a road to connect Skyhold to the rest of the world? How are you feeding your growing army? What about the finances? Why do you have to be frugal with your money when there is a huge amount of gold (and Scrooge McDuck's hat) in your vault?

Have you ever heard of any leader who had not a single piece of paperwork to read/sign? Cullen can't even finish his first chat with you without being interrupted by a messenger with a report. And you? You have a shiny, new office in your chambers... which you don't use even once.

As a dalish elf, you don't even get to contact your clan on your own. No, your advisors take care of that for you. Because they know much better how to handle your family...

 

While in the case of Inquisition, I'll agree that it'd probably be a better move to explain a few more things. But occasionally, there are games where part of the allure is that so much of the world isn't made clear to our characters. So I'd say it's kind of an opinion thing. Also, I would hope that we'll see more things revealed later. Making the audience wait for answers (if they're even meant to be provided) is a common enough tactic. I think it sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.

 

I believe the idea with getting stronger had to do with your Inquisitor mastering how to close fade rifts. They did so on smaller ones, and then did the big one. How the science works there, I have no idea, but I don't necessarily believe that makes it a bad thing. It's a fantasy game, magic itself doesn't exactly have a solid, never broken set of rules. So while "cause it's magic!" (if Bioware does go that route) is a little dry, I wouldn't necessarily consider it the end of the world.

 

I'm not sure I can quite agree with your take on how powerful/powerless the Inquisitor was, but to each their own. I thought it was reasonable that as a leader you'd delegate stuff to your lackies. I did occasionally think the missions Leliana/Cullen/Josephine had were more interesting that what the Inquisitor was doing, but I didn't think it was unreasonable that the characters in the game would have fictional, exciting lives. After all, while the Inquisitor is the main character for us, it's not like they have to do everything. I, personally, don't know if I would have liked having papers shoved in my face. Some might like that, so if it does get added, I'm happy they're getting something they like. It's not really my thing though. I would think a road already exists leading to Skyhold (although the one scene you get of it from a distance does make it seems kinda like it's just existing on a rock). And I can see the value of including more day-to-day things, like feeding an army, or garnering support, but I don't think that was the focus of the game. So it's inclusion (or lack thereof) doesn't seem like a loss to me. But, again, we all view it differently. And it's a little enough thing, but I enjoyed the fact that there were different outcomes depending on who you sent out. Sure, if you screwed up your clan playing as a Lavellan, it definitely should've had a greater impact on your character (like your LI should've at least commented on it and offered sympathies), but the fact that there even was a difference seems like a step in the right direction. They're not quite there yet, certainly, but with some improvements I could see it being a lot more interesting.

[DaemionMoadrin]

While in the case of Inquisition, I'll agree that it'd probably be a better move to explain a few more things. But occasionally, there are games where part of the allure is that so much of the world isn't made clear to our characters. So I'd say it's kind of an opinion thing. Also, I would hope that we'll see more things revealed later. Making the audience wait for answers (if they're even meant to be provided) is a common enough tactic. I think it sometimes work, sometimes doesn't.

 

I believe the idea with getting stronger had to do with your Inquisitor mastering how to close fade rifts. They did so on smaller ones, and then did the big one. How the science works there, I have no idea, but I don't necessarily believe that makes it a bad thing. It's a fantasy game, magic itself doesn't exactly have a solid, never broken set of rules. So while "cause it's magic!" (if Bioware does go that route) is a little dry, I wouldn't necessarily consider it the end of the world.

 

I'm not sure I can quite agree with your take on how powerful/powerless the Inquisitor was, but to each their own. I thought it was reasonable that as a leader you'd delegate stuff to your lackies. I did occasionally think the missions Leliana/Cullen/Josephine had were more interesting that what the Inquisitor was doing, but I didn't think it was unreasonable that the characters in the game would have fictional, exciting lives. After all, while the Inquisitor is the main character for us, it's not like they have to do everything. I, personally, don't know if I would have liked having papers shoved in my face. Some might like that, so if it does get added, I'm happy they're getting something they like. It's not really my thing though. I would think a road already exists leading to Skyhold (although the one scene you get of it from a distance does make it seems kinda like it's just existing on a rock). And I can see the value of including more day-to-day things, like feeding an army, or garnering support, but I don't think that was the focus of the game. So it's inclusion (or lack thereof) doesn't seem like a loss to me. But, again, we all view it differently. And it's a little enough thing, but I enjoyed the fact that there were different outcomes depending on who you sent out. Sure, if you screwed up your clan playing as a Lavellan, it definitely should've had a greater impact on your character (like your LI should've at least commented on it and offered sympathies), but the fact that there even was a difference seems like a step in the right direction. They're not quite there yet, certainly, but with some improvements I could see it being a lot more interesting.

 

Oh, I do not mean that we should get an explanation of every single detail but I do expect more than, "That's the villain, go get him!" When you write characters, you need to know -why- they do what they do. What motivates them, what's their actual goal, which issues are important to them... stuff like that. I felt this was missing from many of the NPCs in the game.

 

Closing rifts to get stronger is my idea. In the game nothing like that exists. You only get a few sentences after you fail to close the Breach the first time (you nearly died and need to get power from the mages/templars). There's also the fact the 2 out of 3 Inquisitors aren't mages. 

 

Oh no, I don't want to play a simulation. But the game could at least mention those things and give me more input in some areas. Perhaps show a cutscene of the Inquisitor writing documents at their desk until their LI distracts them or something like that.

As a leader I want to set the course and my advisors then can tell me what the best way to go about it is or if it's a stupid idea. If they set the course and tell you "this must be done next", where exactly are you in control?

As a dalish elf I really wanted to visit my clan or at least receive some of them as guests at Skyhold - impossible, your advisors won't let you.

[sunnydxmen]

solas is dread wolf he is not exactly a good god he is a trickster god. he enjoys  playing the game he tells you that if you take him into the mission to save the queen, in as a trickster god i highly doubt we seen his true self, he probably did not care how orb was activated aslong as it was so he used to activated but was too weak to get it back so joins inquisition knowing they will meet up with cory sooner or later, along with orb he dont care who he has to sacrifice to get what he wants people thinks he good because of what he shows us but he very will can be very evil in manipulating everyone to get his way.

[Winged Silver]

Oh, I do not mean that we should get an explanation of every single detail but I do expect more than, "That's the villain, go get him!" When you write characters, you need to know -why- they do what they do. What motivates them, what's their actual goal, which issues are important to them... stuff like that. I felt this was missing from many of the NPCs in the game.

 

Closing rifts to get stronger is my idea. In the game nothing like that exists. You only get a few sentences after you fail to close the Breach the first time (you nearly died and need to get power from the mages/templars). There's also the fact the 2 out of 3 Inquisitors aren't mages. 

 

Oh no, I don't want to play a simulation. But the game could at least mention those things and give me more input in some areas. Perhaps show a cutscene of the Inquisitor writing documents at their desk until their LI distracts them or something like that.

As a leader I want to set the course and my advisors then can tell me what the best way to go about it is or if it's a stupid idea. If they set the course and tell you "this must be done next", where exactly are you in control?

As a dalish elf I really wanted to visit my clan or at least receive some of them as guests at Skyhold - impossible, your advisors won't let you.

 

Ahaha I guess I was overthinking it for Bioware then in which case, your idea makes sense I'd love to receive my own guests....next game, Bioware, please? ^.^