153 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

I say they cause more trouble than it's worth, although I think it is alright to keep them as schools and not force people to go and have actual teachers that go out to teach homeschooled children. Which was pretty common back in the American civil war era for rich folks too pay for teachers to come to the house to teach their children. I think this would also cause less fear of Mages since it would be very common for a mage to be outside the circle. Public relations and such things like that can go along way to help Mages and Mundanes to stop fearing one another.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Life would be easier if everyone was a dwarf.

Our life in the Deep Roads is not sunshine and rainbow either. We Dwarves wage eternal war against the Darkspawn when there's no blight on the surface. We often suffer from food crisis when trade with the surface gone to ****, and we're one of the races that close to extinction. While the surfacer struggle in the surface.

[Navasha]

Here's my fallback analogy.   How are the Jedi viewed in the Star Wars universe?    They are very much the MAGES of Star Wars.   Their academy pretty much mirrors what we have in Thedas.   Children are discovered at a young age and separated from their families and brought to the academy for training.   Some go bad and turn to the darkside, but the good ones are the very pillars of the community.  

 

So whats the difference?    Well, I believe the main difference is they are their OWN police force.   They don't have an entirely separate organization to act as their jailers.   The "good" mages are the ones who keep the dark side converts in check.   Having two separate organizations just breeds an "Us vs. Them" mentality. 

 

Jedi are viewed by the normal people as a force for good (for the most part).    They also aren't trained by their religion to hate and fear the Jedi.  

 

So ultimately..  The circles would work if they were a force for training and educating mages.    However, the Templars need to be disbanded and the Chantry needs to radically change its rhetoric toward mages. 

 

Ultimately, the problems with mages mostly come from outside forces trying to control them.    They need to be left to their own for education and control.

[Ogillardetta]

Here's my fallback analogy.   How are the Jedi viewed in the Star Wars universe?    They are very much the MAGES of Star Wars.   Their academy pretty much mirrors what we have in Thedas.   Children are discovered at a young age and separated from their families and brought to the academy for training.   Some go bad and turn to the darkside, but the good ones are the very pillars of the community.  

 

So whats the difference?    Well, I believe the main difference is they are their OWN police force.   They don't have an entirely separate organization to act as their jailers.   The "good" mages are the ones who keep the dark side converts in check.   Having two separate organizations just breeds an "Us vs. Them" mentality. 

 

Jedi are viewed by the normal people as a force for good (for the most part).    They also aren't trained by their religion to hate and fear the Jedi.  

 

So ultimately..  The circles would work if they were a force for training and educating mages.    However, the Templars need to be disbanded and the Chantry needs to radically change its rhetoric toward mages. 

 

Ultimately, the problems with mages mostly come from outside forces trying to control them.    They need to be left to their own for education and control.

Yes because the Jedi are really good at keeping the darkside in check. They don't have an evil empire or anything.

[KaiserShep]

Yes because the Jedi are really good at keeping the darkside in check. They don't have an evil empire or anything.

 

There was even a special Interview on how the Dark Side can just sneak up on you.

 

[Joseph Warrick]

Reframe them as high schools. Open up and publish the curriculum. This way even mages who refuse to enroll will end up gravitating towards the circle's preferences because you are the best resource available. Like Bethany.

Mages can work for a living. Diversify the economy. Allow dwarves to take charge of enchantments. No more tranquils. Open up to the general public to reduce public fear. "Open doors" days.

Give grants to research creation and anti magic techniques. Then make them publicly available to reduce the need for templars everywhere.

[cronshaw]

The general consensus is that they're closer to a tool used by those who fear mages than something actually meant to help them.

But according to Vivienne some Circles are different from others, and in most of them mages are allowed to leave the tower as long as they have permission from their First Enchanter.

What do you believe?

I don't belive Vivienne.

[KaiserShep]

I don't belive Vivienne.

I do wonder how aware Vivienne really is of the conditions of various Circles, but she does seem to know mages from those outside her own, so she's obviously not totally isolated, and she probably has a great deal of freedom to travel.

[Jaison1986]

Mage oversight shouldn't be disbanded. The key is reforming organizations like the Seekers or Templars to also accept mages. Imagine a magical oversight group where mundanes and mages were partnered up. That should be the ideal. 

 

The Bright Hand and the Seekers of Truth should become one organization.

 

While their duty is driven by religious belief over an actual moral compass, the templars and seekers will aways be fated to abuse and corruption. That's why the mages are better off with self policing. It's not fail proof, but it does sound more promissing then going back to an flawed system.

[NUM13ER]

The general consensus is that they're closer to a tool used by those who fear mages than something actually meant to help them.

But according to Vivienne some Circles are different from others, and in most of them mages are allowed to leave the tower as long as they have permission from their First Enchanter.

.
I believe their intention should be to allow mages a safe place to learn to control their abilities and then re-enter society the wiser for it. The Circle should be seen as a sanctuary not a cage. A means of controlling and empowering themselves not imprisonment.

If you knew circles were just places were you could learn to control your talents. A place among people who know exactly how you feel and that you'd be able to leave once that training was complete, they'd not have so many people trying to escape or running from Templars all together.

They don't get to have visitors or see their friends and families again because they are not treated as people requiring help but as criminals to be sealed off from everyone else.  

Viv has far too much ambition invested in the Circles to ever see them objectively. Though she does make interesting points.

[Aaleel]

I do wonder how aware Vivienne really is of the conditions of various Circles, but she does seem to know mages from those outside her own, so she's obviously not totally isolated, and she probably has a great deal of freedom to travel.

Listen to people talking around Haven in the beginning especially the Chantry sisters, the ambient conversations. You here stuff like, it was fine during the day, but at night when less people were watching, you don't want to know what kind of stuff happened. Or they never beat the mages in front of me, but sometimes I would see the bruises.

Or listen to Cassaandra when she's taking about what's in the Seeker book.

I'm going to stick with I don't believe Vivienne.

[KaiserShep]

Listen to people talking around Haven in the beginning especially the Chantry sisters, the ambient conversations. You here stuff like, it was fine during the day, but at night when less people were watching, you don't want to know what kind of stuff happened. Or they never beat the mages in front of me, but sometimes I would see the bruises.

Or listen to Cassaandra when she's taking about what's in the Seeker book.

I'm going to stick with I don't believe Vivienne.

Fair point. I imagine that her position might give her blinders in complacency.

[Aaleel]

If mages were walking time bombs, prone to going off at the slightest thing Tevinter would be overrun by demons in a way that would put the breach on its best day to shame, and no one would be able to live normal lives because demons would be everywhere, or the world would be burning.

Circles don't act as a deterrent to crime or prevention of it, you're going to have some bad mages regardless, any group will have bad people. The Circle only acts as a deterrent from mages coming forward to learn or parents bringing their kids forward. So mages who would otherwise be trained and know the dangers don't get the knowledge.

[Ogillardetta]

If mages were walking time bombs, prone to going off at the slightest thing Tevinter would be overrun by demons in a way that would put the breach on its best day to shame, and no one would be able to live normal lives because demons would be everywhere, or the world would be burning.

Circles don't act as a deterrent to crime or prevention of it, you're going to have some bad mages regardless, any group will have bad people. The Circle only acts as a deterrent from mages coming forward to learn or parents bringing their kids forward. So mages who would otherwise be trained and know the dangers don't get the knowledge.

Implying that tevinter isn't a terrible place for non overclass mages.

[Aaleel]

Implying that tevinter isn't a terrible place for non overclass mages.

Not giving any opinions about how they run their society, just saying that mages obviously aren't ticking time bombs that left unchecked go off and all the time an cause all this widespread damage that's always being implied.

[Ryriena]

Listen to people talking around Haven in the beginning especially the Chantry sisters, the ambient conversations. You here stuff like, it was fine during the day, but at night when less people were watching, you don't want to know what kind of stuff happened. Or they never beat the mages in front of me, but sometimes I would see the bruises.

Or listen to Cassaandra when she's taking about what's in the Seeker book.

I'm going to stick with I don't believe Vivienne.

I need to listen some more too the the Chantry sisters dialog. Yeah I do not belive a word of what Vivienne says because I think it mostly because she thinks its better this way for her own gains. When you hear stuff from the Chantry sisters whom served in the circles I think the one in Haven. I think its somewhat amazing to hear her rallying against the Templars actions. I didn't hear the one about the bruises need to go by her more often now.

[Ogillardetta]

Not giving any opinions about how they run their society, just saying that mages obviously aren't ticking time bombs that left unchecked go off and all the time an cause all this widespread damage that's always being implied.

We have a saying in sweden that translates into "Alot wants more" and this applies pretty well to mages. They already have more power than the avrage person in thdeas why not get more? I've read/seen enough bad examples of mages just wanting more power for whatever reason and starting killing others for more power. They have an additional motive to killing others that regular people don't have. So yes I don't think Tevinter is something we should look up to and have as a positive example of anything since the top mages there usesblood magic etc. 

[cronshaw]

I do wonder how aware Vivienne really is of the conditions of various Circles, but she does seem to know mages from those outside her own, so she's obviously not totally isolated, and she probably has a great deal of freedom to travel.

i don't think she cares about anything but her own comfort and power
Do she'll say whatever she needs to to advocate for the system that keeps her ensconced in both.
The leniency of some circles and the freedoms of specific mages are irrelevant.
The system is flawed
 

[Barquiel]

That they create more problems than they solve, at least in their current form. They are broken and problematic at best, and abusive at worst.