Well, as a mage i always hated the circles, felt them as prison, and i'm glad that Leliana solve everything when she became a divine in my ending.
I was afraid she was not able to handle it, but the mages now free, decided to create schools.
I agree with some, and i also agree with Vivienne, i'm wondering what she would do as a devine. I have hesitated a long time between her and Leliana. But Leliana provided the best answer, Everybody is equal including all races.
Well, as a mage i always hated the circles, felt them as prison, and i'm glad that Leliana solve everything when she became a divine in my ending.
I was afraid she was not able to handle it, but the mages now free, decided to create schools.
I agree with some, and i also agree with Vivienne, i'm wondering what she would do as a devine. I have hesitated a long time between her and Leliana. But Leliana provided the best answer, Everybody is equal including all races.
Originally they were created to protect both mages and non-mages which is why they were defendable from both attacks from within in case something went wrong and without as both before and after the founding of the chantry there was massive anti-magic sentiments in southern Thadas leading to mobs attacking mages and suspected mages.
Another thing that isn't often brought up is they were also created to allow the mages to practice their magic without grand clerics and looking over their shoulders all the time telling them what they can and can't do. That being said they are still needed but both the circles and the Templars are in need of reform.
She is the least pro Mage. My friend got her as Divine and she reinstates the circles and Templars, and pretty much stomps out any resistance to her plan.
I did great not choosing her then 
Another thing that isn't often brought up is they were also created to allow the mages to practice their magic without grand clerics and looking over their shoulders all the time telling them what they can and can't do. That being said they are still needed but both the circles and the Templars are in need of reform.
I agree. But nobody is hunting templar, or is afraid of the templar. When u see what became Morrigan, Vivienne, Anders (Solas is quite evil, unfortunatly), u can also see that mages deserve better future, control but no prisons.
Viv has a suite in a palace and has access to summer homes and villas and fine comforts that very few mages or common people will see, unless they are working as servants. She's the last person whose opinion I would believe, when it comes to life in the circles. She wants to RULE the circles, not LIVE IN THEM. She makes my blood boil with her smug opinion of circles. 
For me, the Circles are like Hogwarts being ruled by armed guards. Fail your OWLs? They kill you.
They should be more like schools than prisons, ruled by senior mages and overseen by templars. Once you reach an acceptable level you should be allowed to leave.
Guest_Raga_*
There needs to be compulsory education for young mages. That's what the Circles should be. Mandatory mage school. There's no need to imprison everyone with magic in them indefinitely. Once a mage is educated, they should be free to go about their life like everyone else with one extra precaution of taking their phylactery. This way if the worst happens and they do become an abomination or start mind controlling people, they can be found and dealt with. Templars should serve a dual purpose of protecting mages living in society from persecution and of tracking down mages who do become a danger. They should basically just be "city guards trained to deal with magical problems" rather than "holy warriors holding up Chantry law."
I'm hesitant to completely remove the templars from the Chantry because I'm not aware of any other institution that could enforce policy across national borders. Without that unifying hierarchy, individual Circles will just bog down into local politics, which is precisely what happened in Tevinter. There does need to be some natural counter to mages because mages will just tend to end up in charge as more powerful people usually do. I mean, seriously, every society we know of that doesn't specifically repress mages is in fact ruled by mages. The repression of mages in those societies is a direct response to mages previously ruling. Somebody does need to exist whose purpose is to make sure mundanes have a fair shake of things too.
*Edit* I like what some previous poster said of pairing mages up with templars and allowing mages to be part of the "policing" order as well. This would help cut back on the us vs. them stuff.
Mage + Templar pair? How about no. Templar abilities come from ingesting lyrium. Lyrium has proven to be a drug-like substance. Do you want to be shackled to a drug addict just because some people think you can go on a rampage?
For Creators' sake, the Qunari release a poisonous substance in a city and kill hundreds of people and all they get is a slap on the wrist (or not even that)... because no magic is involved.
Sure, teach mages to control their powers... any mage stupid enough not to look for help controlling his powers deserves to become an abomination. And the argument of 'an untrained mage is dangerous to those around them' doesn't really hold weight in a world where many countries take little children to teach them to become assassins (Par Vollen and Seheron? Antiva? Orlais?) I understand that a mage has a greater potential for sowing chaos than a non-mage... but it's just a matter of potential. I've always felt that the Circle approach to mages was a bit like Minority Report. You get punished for a crime you haven't committed and the system is accepted because it makes the rest of the world feel safe.
Very few Circles really acted like universities, not like the one you can set up after Inquisition if you choose the right Divine. Most of them were little more than glorified prisons and forgive me for not accepting the idea that any mage, male or female, has to ****** him/herself out to get the freedoms that a non-mage might possess. (check Vivienne's backstory and get Cole along for the ride for some hints of the beautiful things she's gone through to get where she is.)
A non-mage with Vivienne's cunning might have become Empress of Orlais at Gaspard's side, might have become Celene's mistress instead of her adviser, might have ruled Rivain... I can admire that the woman managed to get to a position of power in spite of her magic but the very phrase - 'in spite of' shouldn't exist. It's like saying, you've become a millionaire in spite of being an expert at designing weapons' systems, biological weapons or an expert hacker. Any of those talents could make one a very dangerous person in our world, capable of doing immense amounts of damage to any country's security and its people, but our societies know how to integrate these individuals instead of trapping them in a no-win situation.
Guest_Raga_*
Eh? Nobody said anything about "shackling" mages to templars. All that was meant by it was that whatever organization was responsible for monitoring magic use should have both mundanes and mages in it.
Eh? Nobody said anything about "shackling" mages to templars. All that was meant by it was that whatever organization was responsible for monitoring magic use should have both mundanes and mages in it.
"Maybe a buddy system of a mage and templar, with heavy restrictions to ensure their safety and security." Forgive me for assuming buddy system meant buddy system. 
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
"Maybe a buddy system of a mage and templar, with heavy restrictions to ensure their safety and security." Forgive me for assuming buddy system meant buddy system.
I was thinking more along the lines of 'feds' or 'cops'. One is a Templar or Seeker and the other is a Mage. And they investigate and put down magical dangers/crimes.
I was thinking more along the lines of 'feds' or 'cops'. One is a Templar or Seeker and the other is a Mage. And they investigate and put down magical dangers/crimes.
Any warrior with magebane could deal with a mage without having to become Tranquil or addicted to lyrium. 
I don't think Templars or Seekers have it any easier than mages from the point of view of being wronged by the system. Sure, they get the warm fuzzy feeling of being useful, and being in control, but they are forced to rely on an addictive substance or had, at one point, all of their emotions stripped away from them.
When Cole said "It's not abuse if I ask." and Solas answered "Sometimes it is." ... I agree with that. The whole thing is terrible... just that some/many/most mages get to feel oppressed and some/many/most templars get to feel righteous. But it's still an abusive system for both sides.
Viv has a suite in a palace and has access to summer homes and villas and fine comforts that very few mages or common people will see, unless they are working as servants. She's the last person whose opinion I would believe, when it comes to life in the circles. She wants to RULE the circles, not LIVE IN THEM. She makes my blood boil with her smug opinion of circles.
Actually, most if not all mages have acess to these comforts.
The White Spire was housed in Emperor Drakon´s former palace, after all.
Actually, most if not all mages have acess to these comforts.
The White Spire was housed in Emperor Drakon´s former palace, after all.
I haven't read any of the books so I don't know much about what is in them except from what I've heard but the games never gave me the impression that mages had freedoms like Viv has or that they got to live a life of luxury. I guess I need to read the books (if that's where I'd learn more about Drakon's former palace).
Circles should be a compulsory college for Mages, overseen by Mages. Up until they pass the Harrowing or a similar test they are confined, afterwards they can go free if the First Enchanter believes it appropriate. The Templars stay as a police force of sorts, tasked with hunting down rebels, abominations and the like, as well as ensuring no one unauthorized enters the Circles. The Seekers oversee the whole affair to ensure no abuse of power from either side.
I was thinking more along the lines of 'feds' or 'cops'. One is a Templar or Seeker and the other is a Mage. And they investigate and put down magical dangers/crimes.
Dude, that would be a disaster. Every time a veteran Templar/Seeker/Mage too old for this **** approaches the day before retirement, an abomination or maleficar or something would pop up and kill 'em.
I haven't read any of the books so I don't know much about what is in them except from what I've heard but the games never gave me the impression that mages had freedoms like Viv has or that they got to live a life of luxury. I guess I need to read the books (if that's where I'd learn more about Drakon's former palace).
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Dude, that would be a disaster. Every time a veteran Templar/Seeker/Mage too old for this **** approaches the day before retirement, an abomination or maleficar or something would pop up and kill 'em.
More like the Mage/Templar/Seeker uncover a magical conspiracy above their paygrade. And then something from an 80's action flick happens.
Actually, most if not all mages have acess to these comforts.
The White Spire was housed in Emperor Drakon´s former palace, after all.
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with her seducing the duke.
I agree with that part. So when she brags on all her "specialness" as a way of saying that mages don't have it so bad, what she has is something very few other mages will attain.
My 2 cents:
Circles are a necessary "burden"... for lack of a better word. However the current state of them (before the big war) was that it needed major reform as the pendulum as swung too much in the direction of oppressive towards the mages. My views are skewed since DA2 displayed the worst of the worst with kirkwall.
It is kind of like the issue with law enforcement. Not all cops are bad. But there are bad apples and even bad departments where they go too far and need reform. But we will all agree that law enforcement is needed.
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with her seducing the duke.
That the White Spire is housed in an Emperor's former palace is a fact.
We can also compare the living condition of Ferelden's Circle and reach the conclusion its comforts can only be matched by those in the homes of Arls.
Whatever our opinions about the Circle, it is undeniable they provide a material quality of life above that of the average citizen.
That Vivienne was able to work her way upwards without magic is commendable.
Let's just forget that the real Cole was locked up in the white spare dungeons and died. Yeah it's so good that he died in a former place. Rolls eyesThat the White Spire is housed in an Emperor's former palace is a fact.
We can also compare the living condition of Ferelden's Circle and reach the conclusion its comforts can only be matched by those in the homes of Arls.
Whatever our opinions about the Circle, it is undeniable they provide a material quality of life above that of the average citizen.
That Vivienne was able to work her way upwards without magic is commendable.
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