Any warrior with magebane could deal with a mage without having to become Tranquil or addicted to lyrium.
How are they supposed to get close enough to put said magebane to use when they have no anti-magical defenses? How would a sword or arrow coated in the poison bypass a magical barrier with no Templar powers?
That's odd since as warrior player that did not realy on Templar training I got past Mages and demons pretty well even in DA:I.How are they supposed to get close enough to put said magebane to use when they have no anti-magical defenses? How would a sword or arrow coated in the poison bypass a magical barrier with no Templar powers?
I think they were an imperfect solution to a problem with no perfect solutions for anyone, mages or muggles (for lack of a better term.) I also think that given past abuses and recent events, they have probably had their day, and a new and almost certainly still imperfect solution will need to be found, probably involving some type of mage self-governance but with oversight from governments and/or the Chantry made up of both mages and non-mages. A mage needn't inherently be treated as less than (or more than) human and a non-mage with a sword can kill you just as dead as magic can. That said, with the risk of possession/demons that comes along with being a mage, and the potential lack of control over their powers when young, it would be foolish to pretend there is no danger at all.
Personally my suspicion is that the Veil is not going to hang around much longer, in its current form anyway, and then everyone, human, spirit, mage or muggle is going to have to learn to live with the result or be destroyed in the process.
I'm such an optimist. 
That's odd since as warrior player that did not realy on Templar training I got past Mages and demons pretty well even in DA:I.
"I'm going to apply gameplay conventions to lore"
No I am just saying that it is possible from a lore prespestive since it's has happen in cut scenes before like warrior Hawke cutting down that demon with a sword."I'm going to apply gameplay conventions to lore"
The Circle system was founded on principals and ideals that held disdain for magic. It will never work until those ideals and opinions are set aside for more inclusive ideas on magic. Dividing mages into an us or them category will just continue to distance the populous and mages from one another.
The idea of restricting an inherent right such as personal freedom is insulting, and pretty much kills any equal and honest collaboration when that large of a bargaining chip is held over mages. From my experience people are more helpful when they want to do something rather than when they have to. Mages are already a small minority, and if you can integrate the good mages into "normal" society you've earned another ally in fighting mages who abuse their gifts.
i like the Bright Hand ending if you conscript the mages and make Leliana Divine. Because I see my Inquisition as very inclusive to mages and an entity that promotes positive and ethical magical uses and research. That is the "ideal" that I want from mage colleges/circles. To be free, inclusive and to have an active and positive role in society while still enjoying their personal freedoms.
"I'm going to apply gameplay conventions to lore"
It is a good question. Lorewise, there are also no examples, that I can recall, of unbreakable barriers. The ones ingame that we need a mage to get past should also count as gameplay conventions.
There is actually an in lore instance, that I can remember (there might be more), of a normal swing breaking a protection spell.
In "The Stolen Throne", Maric was able to shatter Severin's protection spell by putting his full weight behind a blow.
It is, however, worth noting that Severin was being affected by a poison that disrupted his concentration and Maric's blade was enchanted.
Still, the text very clearly speaks of it even leaving cracks in the barrier.
It is possible there are two types of barriers. Mobile and stationary and the first are weaker but easier to cast. For instance, either Corypheus or a group of Venatori mages can cast a barrier capable of withstanding a dozen Pride Demons. That should be the ultimate defence but we do not see Corypheus walking around coated in it.
Guest_Raga_*
Regardless of whether you actually need templar abilities to do it, I would daresay that people who are specifically trained to deal with magic will counteract it a lot better than random infantryman handed magebane potions. The fact remains that there does need to be some force trained to deal with magic that's around to deal with it when it goes wrong.
It's like, sure, me and ten people with buckets of water can probably put out a housefire, but I bet the fire department can do a much better job much faster.
No I am just saying that it is possible from a lore prespestive since it's has happen in cut scenes before like warrior Hawke cutting down that demon with a sword.
You said that your Player Character did not have "much trouble", as if the experience would apply half as well to the rank-and-file.
It is a good question. Lorewise, there are also no examples, that I can recall, of unbreakable barriers.
Going by Asunder, protective barriers are common. With Templar powers, these are easily bypassed, and anything the mage throws at the Templar can be negated as the Templar advances toward the mage to break said barrier. Then there's more specialized stuff like Rock Armor, should that actually exist in the lore.
As far as I can see, trying to police mages with regular dudes with any hope of general success would require a lot of enchanted gear (expensive), or hiring such a large number of dudes that rebellious mages are overwhelmed after enough bodies are thrown at them.
Circles = Prisons.
You can call them Circles, Schools, Mountains, Heaven, Hell, Pools, the Chocolate House in the street of the Candies or whatever you want to call them, but they are Prisons and, along with the Templars and the Chantry, are the biggest reason for the aparition of abominations in Thedas.
See Tevinter, where Circles are actual Schools (and of great prestige) and mages have limitless freedom and almost limitless power, how the Imperium is not an abominations nest like Thedas is. I am not talking about "urh dur evil magocracy" or anything related with laws on Tevinter, I am talking about how the most powerful mages of the Dragon Age world are able to live in a huge empire with no limit for magic practice where more than half its citicens are mages without having abominations running wild everywhere like they do in Thedas.
The overwhelming majority of people in Tevinter are normal. Try again.
DA4 will probably change a lot of minds when we see firsthand how slaves are treated in Tevinter's magocracy with no templars capable of standing up for them.
after your harrowing you should be free to go. forcing the majority of them to stay afterwards is what causes the problems all the way back to DA:O
If you can't pass your harrowing and fight off demons then you stick around and study. no more tranquility except for dealing with monsters like the venatori guy.
Guest_Challenge Everything_*
For Creators' sake, the Qunari release a poisonous substance in a city and kill hundreds of people and all they get is a slap on the wrist (or not even that)... because no magic is involved.
Technically it wasn't their fault. 
And they weren't let off because it wasn't magic. They were let off because the Free Marches didn't want to start a goddamn war.
Guest_Raga_*
Circles = Prisons.
You can call them Circles, Schools, Mountains, Heaven, Hell, Pools, the Chocolate House in the street of the Candies or whatever you want to call them, but they are Prisons and, along with the Templars and the Chantry, are the biggest reason for the aparition of abominations in Thedas.
See Tevinter, where Circles are actual Schools (and of great prestige) and mages have limitless freedom and almost limitless power, how the Imperium is not an abominations nest like Thedas is. I am not talking about "urh dur evil magocracy" or anything related with laws on Tevinter, I am talking about how the most powerful mages of the Dragon Age world are able to live in a huge empire with no limit for magic practice where more than half its citicens are mages without having abominations running wild everywhere like they do in Thedas.
I've never been quite sure where the singular focus on abominations come from. The reason the Circles exist isn't because of fear of abominations. That's just part of it. The other part is "magic exists to serve man. Not to rule over him." The other explicit intent of the Circles was to prevent mages from amassing concentrated political power such as they do in Tevinter. We can argue all day about whether this justifies the Circles or not, but there remains the fear that mages, who are naturally more powerful than mundanes, will end up in power, as more powerful people usually do, to exclusion of mundanes unless there is some force around to counter them. If no such force existed, then it's just up to individual mages not to abuse their power, and when have humans even been good at not abusing their power?
Except that the real Templars were by and large a decent order that got slandered by the king of France because he owed them money, and were subsequently declared heretics by the Pope. Hardly "antagonistic."The templars are just portrayed as antagonistic since the real templars were, and so, consequently, the Circles are generally supposed to come off as evil to the players. I tried asking David Gaider about the templars, but he was just extremely vague...
I've just decided to stop questioning things and go with the flow. b
I rather like having some familiar parallels like Templars, elves, dwarves, etc.. They could just come up with their own names for them, but they would probably not be nearly as memorable. Of course, there's the Qunari, but they feel more like the exception.
I rather like having some familiar parallels like Templars, elves, dwarves, etc.. They could just come up with their own names for them, but they would probably not be nearly as memorable. Of course, there's the Qunari, but they feel more like the exception.
Guest_Raga_*
I agree. It's especially disconcerting when someone comes up with a "new" name for something that obviously isn't new. I don't care if you call them dwarrows or dwemer or Sithi or mer or whatever. A dwarf's a dwarf and an elf is an elf.
Guest_Challenge Everything_*
Except that the real Templars were by and large a decent order that got slandered by the king of France because he owed them money, and were subsequently declared heretics by the Pope. Hardly "antagonistic."
It doesn't change the fact that history views them as such. When you hear the word templar, people thing Crusades. They think Friday 13th. They think death and violence in the name in religion.
Also, that doesn't make Gaider's response any less confusing. -____-"
How are they supposed to get close enough to put said magebane to use when they have no anti-magical defenses? How would a sword or arrow coated in the poison bypass a magical barrier with no Templar powers?
How about the Grey Wardens act as foil against any maleficarum. They're stationed in every nation out of necessity, they aren't reliant on lyrium so templars don't become paranoid by having red lyrium shards laying about close to them, and they have supernatural powers like the power of blood spec tree in Origins. A rogue who uses Dark passage can sneak in and gut a mage. Mages are granted the benefit of the doubt to govern themselves, muggles have an anti-mage force that may not be templars but experienced warriors who kill darkspawn who have darkspawn mages for a living, they're close by, it's economically feasible, and no one is oppressed or has the potential to be corrupted to insanity. At the very least, it's a preferable first line of defense against abominations and maleficarum than the templar order who can grow paranoid by being near red lyrium or forcibly fed it.
The Seekers of Truth can then be regulated to National Guard status or Chantry FBI to investigate Circle corruption and they can even be in charge of storing the phylacteries so Circle mages will cooperate.
It doesn't change the fact that history views them as such. When you hear the word templar, people thing Crusades. They think Friday 13th. They think death and violence in the name in religion.
Also, that doesn't make Gaider's response any less confusing. -____-"
How about the Grey Wardens act as foil against any maleficarum.
The Grey Wardens are nowhere near numerous enough, and I doubt they or the various kingdoms would care for the idea. Not to mention the fact that the Wardens are either fragmented or have gone completely silent in the present time.
The Seekers of Truth can then be regulated to National Guard status or Chantry FBI to investigate Circle corruption and they can even be in charge of storing the phylacteries so Circle mages will cooperate.
F*** the Seekers of Truth.
The Grey Wardens are nowhere near numerous enough, and I doubt they or the various kingdoms would care for the idea. Not to mention the fact that the Wardens are either fragmented or have gone completely silent in the present time.
F*** the Seekers of Truth.
Grey Wardens have enough among their ranks to face down hordes of darkspawn and if they don't well there's always conscription. As for what the other nations think, would they rather not have Wardens defending them from darkspawn or maleficarum and demons? With Chantry and Inquisition support, the wardens can be as Blackwall envisions them: Wardens who "lay down their lives for those they have sworn to protect." It seems the most sensible choice to enfranchise them if ego and spite doesn't cloud people's judgement.
The Seekers, the mages, the grey wardens, the templars- all fucked up but resentment and spite isn't going to solve Thedas' aged old problems.
How about the Grey Wardens act as foil against any maleficarum. They're stationed in every nation out of necessity, they aren't reliant on lyrium so templars don't become paranoid by having red lyrium shards laying about close to them, and they have supernatural powers like the power of blood spec tree in Origins. A rogue who uses Dark passage can sneak in and gut a mage. Mages are granted the benefit of the doubt to govern themselves, muggles have an anti-mage force that may not be templars but experienced warriors who kill darkspawn who have darkspawn mages for a living, they're close by, it's economically feasible, and no one is oppressed or has the potential to be corrupted to insanity. At the very least, it's a preferable first line of defense against abominations and maleficarum than the templar order who can grow paranoid by being near red lyrium or forcibly fed it.
The Seekers of Truth can then be regulated to National Guard status or Chantry FBI to investigate Circle corruption and they can even be in charge of storing the phylacteries so Circle mages will cooperate.
Grey wardens don't have the anti-magic abilities that Templars and seekers have and the immunity to blood magic and possession that seekers have and as others have likely noted they don't have near the numbers that the Templars have.
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