43 réponses à ce sujet

[Amirit]

I know, this is just another broken game logic, overlook and so on, but if play along with it, Gaspard turns out to be a bad general and Emperor after all.

 

Here is the thing: whether you choose mages or templars, you learn, that in uninterrupted future Corypheus assassinate Empress Celene and THEN invade Orleis with his army. Not a single word about assassinating Gaspard or killing anyone else close to the throne. A single personal kill of Empress does the trick. Which means Gaspard - the one already commanding the army and the heir to the throne was unable to hold Orleis in order and fight back invading armies. Hence, he fails at both his duty

 

Is not it lovely?

[Augustei]

Because the murder of Celene is pinned on him and he is charged with Regicide? That was Floriannes plan at The Winter Palace, So no one ends up on the throne and the country falls to infighting.

Pay attention.

[pawswithclaws]

I think he's busy being dead/in jail?

[Sidney]

There is any reason not to choose Gaspard?

[Milan92]

How many more of these hate threads do we need?

 

Seriously, just go with the choice you want. No need to try and convince others.

[Amirit]

No way! Who will execute the order to take down Gaspard? Who has the right to give that order? He is the next Emperor in line, he has the army, he is the only power left. It's not a democracy - he IS the ruler after Celene's death, the highest and real power in Orleis. The only way to "pin" anything on him is to keep Celene alive so she give the order to take him.

 

I know that writers simply forgot to mention his fate, but without that mentioning - Gaspard is proved to be useless. 

[Ogillardetta]

There is any reason not to choose Gaspard?

The only thing thats hard is to just let her die. I wish I could just blackmail her(celene) into stepping down after talking down florianne.

[MisterJB]

The Council of Heralds, obviously.

[pawswithclaws]

I'm pretty sure you're still not allowed to just up and murder the Empress even if you're next in line for the throne. The "Game" wouldn't be as complicated as it is if that was the case. Do you seriously believe everyone would just "fall in line" behind Gaspard if they thought he'd murdered Celene?

[TobiTobsen]

No way! Who will execute the order to take down Gaspard? Who has the right to give that order? He is the next Emperor in line, he has the army, he is the only power left. It's not a democracy - he IS the ruler after Celene's death, the highest and real power in Orleis. The only way to "pin" anything on him is to keep Celene alive so she give the order to take him.

 

I know that writers simply forgot to mention his fate, but without that mentioning - Gaspard is proved to be useless. 

 

Just being the next in line for the throne is no "get out of jail free" card for regicide. Especially if the murderer is your sister and openly mentions you just before killing the empress.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

The only thing thats hard is to just let her die. I wish I could just blackmail her(celene) into stepping down after talking down florianne.

Since Celene would do anything for power as well as would do anything to ensure that she'll always have power above all in Orlais, even if it means she has to live the life of constantly deceive, blackmail, scheming against her rivals, murdering innocent. She had Briala's entire family murdered to advance her political career, and she burns the Alienage in Halamshiral to win the nobility's trust. You see how far she can go for power, I doubt she's the type who'll step down.

[KaiserShep]

What's the difference? It's Orlais. All the same nonsense with their masks and goofy politics.

[Ogillardetta]

Since Celene would do anything for power as well as would do anything to ensure that she'll always have power above all in Orlais, even if it means she has to live the life of constantly deceive, blackmail, scheming against her rivals, murdering innocent. She had Briala's entire family murdered to advance her political career, and she burns the Alienage in Halamshiral to win the nobility's trust. You see how far she can go for power, I doubt she's the type who'll step down.

Point taken and when you put it like that I don't feel that bad for letting her die. I still feel kinda bad I guess but its because it goes against my nature to just let something like that happen. 

[Ogillardetta]

What's the difference? It's Orlais. All the same nonsense with their masks and goofy politics.

Gaspard wants to get rid of the game and that I support. 

[Amirit]

I'm pretty sure you're still not allowed to just up and murder the Empress even if you're next in line for the throne. The "Game" wouldn't be as complicated as it is if that was the case. Do you seriously believe everyone would just "fall in line" behind Gaspard if they thought he'd murdered Celene?

And I am pretty sure Gaspard intended Celene's murder from the beginning (according to TME). And he already had a "long line" of those who fall for it.
 
On a serious note - it is a huge overlook from writers. Not the only one, may be not even the most important, but big.
 
We have a man who is supposed to be a heir to the throne, who started the civil war with all the intention to kill the Empress. His success in that war - both tactical and political (getting more and more supporters among the nobles) was the reason for Celene to begin the peace talk. He was ready to take the throne by force and already half Orlais agreed to that. So, Celene's death - whether by his hand or someone else's - should have place him on the throne. Death of either of them was supposed to bring peace and stability (as we learn later in Halamshiral quest). Yet, not a single word about it. 

Pity.

[Augustei]

And I am pretty sure Gaspard intended Celene's murder from the beginning (according to TME). And he already had a "long line" of those who fall for it.
 
On a serious note - it is a huge overlook from writers. Not the only one, may be not even the most important, but big.
 
We have a man who is supposed to be a heir to the throne, who started the civil war with all the intention to kill the Empress. His success in that war - both tactical and political (getting more and more supporters among the nobles) was the reason for Celene to begin the peace talk. He was ready to take the throne by force and already half Orlais agreed to that. So, Celene's death - whether by his hand or someone else's - should have place him on the throne. Death of either of them was supposed to bring peace and stability (as we learn later in Halamshiral quest). Yet, not a single word about it. 

Pity.

He didn't plan to take responsibility for the murder, otherwise he would be a Kinslayer and a Regicide. Giving the Council of Heralds another pretext to deny him the throne. And would loose him support among then nobility

 

[KaiserShep]

Gaspard wants to get rid of the game and that I support. 

Yeah, I like that he disapproves of that nonsense, but even as Emperor, it's possible that it would survive him. Just the same, my Inquisitor doesn't live in Orlais, and would like very much to leave the bulk of that crap to Josephine's perma-patient persona and Leliana's cutthroat savvy and try to limit visits to Orlais to shopping. Let those clowns have their circus.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

As a PC that really believes he's the Herald of Andraste and the Maker's Chosen, it would be out of character for my Inquisitor to just let her die knowing he could've done something to prevent it.

That's the problem for a PC who's true believer or very religious Andrastion. Good thing that my Quizzy is not even Andrastion, and since he's political savvy person with a significant amount of knowledge about politics in Orlais. He heard what Celene did at Halamshiral, and is disgusted by that. Letting Celene die is just politics for him, one die so other candidate (he believes) that stronger could lead Orlais, and help the Inquisition. Beside Gaspard seems like the easiest person to control.

 

 

Point taken and when you put it like that I don't feel that bad for letting her die. I still feel kinda bad I guess but its because it goes against my nature to just let something like that happen. 

It goes against my nature as well, but not against my Quizzy's nature. He's disgusted by what Celene did at Halamshiral anyway. To be fair, I wish there was an option to convince/blackmail/force Celene to step down. Power is worthless if you're dead.

[Ogillardetta]

Yeah, I like that he disapproves of that nonsense, but even as Emperor, it's possible that it would survive him. Just the same, my Inquisitor doesn't live in Orlais, and would like very much to leave the rest of that crap to Josephine's perma-patient persona and Leliana's cutthroat savvy and try to limit visits to Orlais to shopping. Let those fops have their circus.

Hey now lets try to stay positive. Maybe Gaspard manages to stomp out the foppyness? Its hard to change an entire culture over one night but I'd rather have a no none sense man on the throne than a game loving queen that kills entire societies to prove a point.

[pawswithclaws]

And I am pretty sure Gaspard intended Celene's murder from the beginning (according to TME). And he already had a "long line" of those who fall for it.
 

Sure he did (or at least depose her). He also planned not getting caught at outright murder. I am also pretty sure none of his plans included his sister betraying him, framing him and throwing him to the wolves. Just because someone has several contingency-plans doesn't mean any of them will actually work. Several of the people who "backed" him before, as well as their support, will most likely go *poof* at the first whisper of regicide.

[KaiserShep]

Hey now lets try to stay positive. Maybe Gaspard manages to stomp out the foppyness? Its hard to change an entire culture over one night but I'd rather have a no none sense man on the throne than a game loving queen that kills entire societies to prove a point.

 

Fair enough. I just don't invest myself heavily in either direction. If Gaspard was already on the throne, then he would simply retain it. I only really care about stabilizing Orlais long enough to keep Corypheus' pesky instigating at bay. For good measure, I just had Gaspard executed to reduce complications.

[Amirit]

Sure he did (or at least depose her). He also planned not getting caught at outright murder. I am also pretty sure none of his plans included his sister betraying him, framing him and throwing him to the wolves. Just because someone has several contingency-plans doesn't mean any of them will actually work. Several of the people who "backed" him before, as well as their support, will most likely go *poof* at the first whisper of regicide.

 

And go where? Gaspard is the only one. It's not the army of princes trying to get their piece of throne and recruiting left and right. There were Celene and Gaspard - only! - and nobles could choose either\or. One is gone - the only option left for others is to join the victor. Before the civil war Gaspard could care about "not being caught" in hope to take the throne peacefully (sort of). After the war started - with full force - it was a fight to the death. He already sieged the Val Royeaux, and it would be easy (like it was proved in Halamshiral quest) to simply kill his sister for assassination and get the throne. 

 

I can only repeat - it's a pity to find another plot-hole.