79 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Anders I'd have as CG, his actions at the chantry are the single most morally good act in the series so far, blowing up the LE chantry? Perfect.

[berelinde]

Dog is TN. Animals are. Mostly because Chaotic Friendly is not an actual alignment.

[Asteriski]

Anders breaks the chart- he's just plain Chaotic Stupid. Viv would definitely be Lawful Neutral and could go either way depending on how she's pushed. Hardened Leliana is CN(willing to disregard her previous source of morality, little regard for much life), Unhardened is NG(bound by some degree of moral code, honestly a good person, but still willing to break laws and kill). I'd also call Varric CG(but this could be my own bias, since I've got a Pathfinder char inspired by Varric who's CG).

[BountyhunterGER]

Thanks for the info. Based on that I feel Anders is evil based on one significant event... but I will wait and see as others chime in

Spoiler

The problem with anders is he is complicated. Back in DAO he didn't give a **** about mage freedom (at least not so much). He escaped the circle several times and was then recruited by the warden (and became even one) but the templars where still trying to catch him after that (even when the King of Ferelden said it was okay that he became a warden) so I think his anger and hate against them was justified but held back.

Another companion was the spirit Justice (who got dragged out of the fade and into a dead wardens body). He was the one always saying to Anders that mages should be free.

The wife of the death body he was possessing wanted her husband back to bury him. Since Justice had to leave the corpse he needed another host body.

Anders offered to help him and got possessed by his friend - the Problem was that due to his kept back anger Justice transformed into Vengeange (basically demon justice).

And still Anders managed to run a free clinic and tried to help people..- but always with Vengeance in his mind telling him for 9 years he should do something for mages (he also is not very happy about a romance between Anders and Hawke).

 

Sorry if that was too much text but I would rather consider him CG - trying to help people - with having a demon in his mind. I simply can't judge Anders for the things he did, because I couldn't think of anybody in his situation not doing anything crazy in the end.

[stonerbishop]

But lots of people didn't do something crazy. Not wanting to turn this into an Anders debate, I will just say I could see it if he blew up the gallows/Meredith. He didnt. He killed that nice old grand cleric

[Il Divo]

I think this fits Morrigan really well. Remember I'm looking at them in each game. I'm not counting inquisition Morrigan's actions where I think Kieran could change this

 

Possibly, but I also think of moments like Morrigan's reaction upon seeing Sten imprisoned, where she is sympathetic to freeing him. I always thought that was a drive towards chaotic over neutral since she really seems to value freedom, similar to how she's disdainful of the Circle system. 

[Lavaeolus]

Solas is Chaotic. He values personal freedom, the right of all thinking individuals. Out of all the party members, he's the one who hates the Qun the most (because it denies people the right to think for themselves). In that way, he's also quite Good -- note that he also supports helping people in sidequests, and is displeased at Wardens for crossing the line and committing Evil actions. Remember that Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Anything, is not necessarily "brash"/"thoughtless" -- these are merely common symptoms of a Chaotic mindset, not the definition itself. Some quotes here to support this:

Spoiler

• Iron Bull: Alright, Solas, been thinking. You wanna know how this place would be if the Qunari took charge?
• Iron Bull: Orlais, Ferelden, all of it would be healthier under the Qun.
• Iron Bull: But the war to make that happen? That'd be ugly. A lot of good people would die.
• Iron Bull: So I'm not hoping it happens. There! You happy?
• Solas: Happy? No. Quite the opposite.
• Iron Bull: Oh, come on. I said I didn't want us to invade you!
• Solas: No. You said this world would be brighter if all thinking individuals were stripped of individuality.
• Solas: You only lack the will to get more blood on your hands.

• Iron Bull: Tell me something, Solas. Do you think the servants here are happier then the people living under the Qun in Par Vollen?
• Solas: It doesn't matter if they are happy, it matters that they may choose!
• Iron Bull: Choose? Choose what? Whether to do their work or get tossed onto the street to starve?
• Solas: Yes! If a Ferelden servant decides that his life goal is to... become a poet, he can follow that dream!
• Solas: It may be difficult, and he might fail. But the whole of society is not aligned to oppose him!
• Iron Bull: Sure, and good for him. How many servants actually go do that, though?
• Solas: Almost none! What does that matter?
• Solas: Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!
• Iron Bull: And then people feel like crap for failing.
• Iron Bull: When the truth is, the deck was stacked against them anyway.

At the end of the game, he may switch to Neutral, as his own feelings towards "Helping the People" lead him to commit more extremes in the future above all else. Ambiguity means you can keep a case for Chaotic Good, however, and it's his closest alignment throughout the main game.

Ideologically, Morrigan is Chaotic. She has a worldview that is directly opposed to order, chooses freedom over safety. In Origins, she's also quite Evil. She approves of ruthlessness (not necessarily Evil, admittedly), disregards life (of others, headed into Evil now), and approves of just generally being a dick in situations bar few exceptions (if you're female, she'll even approve of sleeping with Cammen and ruining the Dalish lovers' relationship). Note that Evil doesn't always have to be "muhwahahah time to destroy the world", it can be a bit more petty. However, Chaotic Evil is something that draws up weird ideas when suggested, like Dark Knight's Joker. Traditionally, she is closest to our conception of a Neutral Evil character, merged with some Chaotic Neutral. Still, moments like advocating killing all the mages for the crime of "rejecting their freedom" is an oddly Chaotic Evil decision. I refer to Morrigan's Origins depiction, to be clear.

Anders definitely starts out Chaotic Good in the second game (Awakening is classic Chaotic Neutral: freedom -- for me, please, though I might help if it won't hurt me). To a large extent, he maintains this even after the game, though understand he goes a little nutty. Arguably, he drops to Chaotic Neutral as he starts placing freedom, the value, over respect for life and even the people he's supposedly doing it for -- a very different Chaotic Neutral to Awakening, admittedly. He never quite steps into Evil, in my mind, but blowing up the Chantry was still a very Evil action in D&D terms. Still, his motives are selfless, so you wouldn't be coming from nowhere if you kept him "Good".

I would be hesistant in viewing Oghren as Chaotic. He's a drunkard, true, but he also keeps a lot of his dwarven views of the world. He's bloodthirsty, viewing things as trophies, but it's because he is a warrior, of the warrior caste. That's what he does. I'd say Neutral on the Good/Evil factor. He's too focused on personal glory to really deserve Good.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Being a reformer, I'm not even sure Cassandra is that lawful. But it's hard to pin her down as anything else I suppose. LG but only because there's no other options, the Seekers as a whole are LN at best however.

 

Varric is NG. Still veers on TN territory because his day job is still being an important part of a criminal syndicate, but himself he's a good person.

 

Vivienne is LN, full stop. Her epilogue as Divine Victoria doesn't really coincides with a LE, she doesn't institute a reign of terror beyond what she has to do to break her enemies.

 

Iron Bull is Lawful Neutral as well. This guy likes cleaving people in half and is a medieval KGB agent. I have a hard time picturing him as Good.

 

Sera is CN for sure. Still not CE tho.

 

Dorian is harder to pin. NG seems a decent option, but he's still OK with stuff like slavery, which is part of Tevinter culture but still.

 

Blackwall is complex. His personna is LG for sure, all about defending the helpless. Thom Rainier is TN at best, closer to NE. He can't really be placed on the alignment meter, IMO.

 

Cole, probably NG because he's out to help people first and foremost. Maybe CG if he ends up more human.

 

Solas is impossible to determine for now. CN is my best bet, but it is truly impossible to say until we know more about him.

 

 

I've never been a big fan of the DnD alignment system anyway. It can be really hard to fit in a character who's not a stereotype or doesn't enters into clear, existing definitions. And of course Good and Evil are incredibly malleable concepts.

[TheGlen]

DA2 is an arc story, characters change their alignment based on your decisions especially the love interests.  Isabella is textbook CN, but you can prod her to the CG side by the end of it.  Ditto Fenris, you can turn him into a killing machine or help him come to grips with his past and get over it.  Anders is the problem case, mainly because of the writing is all over the place on him.  He's running a free clinic for poor people and then he becomes Dragon Age's Tim McVeigh.  Never made any sense, if he wanted to support the mages why not blow up Meredith who was the obvious villain in arc 3 anyways?  You can claim Anders has two alignments, one for both personalities, that's probably the easiest.  So Anders is CG, Justice becomes CE.

[Lavaeolus]

Iron Bull is Lawful Neutral as well. This guy likes cleaving people in half and is a medieval KGB agent. I have a hard time picturing him as Good.

In defense of Good Bull: Iron Bull doesn't just like cleaving people in half. He condemns those who kill innocent civilians (this is why he's haunted by Tal'Vasoth, who he saw do such things, and he has doubts about the ones he killed who didn't act as such). Actualy, wrote about this in another topic. "Iron Bull saved Krem, losing an eye in the processs, selflessly. At the time, he didn't know who he was aside from maybe some random Vint. This was no isolated incident: talk to Gatt during Bull's personal quest and he'll tell you how he joined the Qun... after Bull saved him from slavery. Back during his Qun days, he was one of the greatest defenders during the constant fighting, saving countless lives."

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Not a single CE character in DAI unless you harden leilana

 

and even then it's a LE

[ThreeF]

I've never been a big fan of the DnD alignment system anyway. It can be really hard to fit in a character who's not a stereotype or doesn't enters into clear, existing definitions. And of course Good and Evil are incredibly malleable concepts.

 

Well written characters are always the hardest to be defined in DnD terms.

[daveliam]

I'm really glad to see that the overwhelming majority says Vivienne is LN.  There was a thread about this recently where it was more even and there were more people saying LE for her.  I just don't see it.  She's pretty much textbook LN to me (well, actually, Samara is textbook LN).

[o Ventus]

Alistair: LG, if we're going with Origins Alistair. Not sure about DAI Warden or King Alistair.

Morrigan strikes me more as a CG. She has a stated goal and has noble values, but she's willing to go to rather dark places to achieve her goal.

Sten: LN

Leliana: CG

Shale: CN

Zevran: CN

Oghren: CN

 

Bethany: LG

Carver: CG

Isabela: CN

Anders: Not sure

Merrill: CG (moreso by her actions, not her intent)

Fenris: CN

Aveline: LG

Sebastian: LG

 

Cassandra: LG

Solas: LN

Cole: CN

Vivienne: LE

Bull: CG

Blackwall: CG

Sera: CG

Varric: Tied between Neutral Good and Chaotic Good. He isn't above breaking any laws if it suits him, but 9/10 he's one of the nicest companions in the series.

Dorian: Part of me wants to put him as LG since he has a lot of admirable ideals, but over the course of the game he doesn't actually put then into action. Not sure.

[KainD]

I find it hard to imagine that Anders is CE - running a free underground clinic just doesn't strike me as something CE would do.

 

A chaotic evil can do anything. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Dog, LG Loyal to the HoF, obidient.

What makes Barkspawn *good*, exactly? He does as commanded regardless of whether that's robbing peasants or protecting them from darkspawn, which sounds more lawful neutral to me.

[o Ventus]

A chaotic evil can do anything. 

Running a clinic is neither chaotic nor evil.

[katokires]

DnDers aka people, the rest are just souless things roaming the earth

So next time you want opinion or help from people who love DnD just ask people for help

Sioome things will self proclaim themselves people but just ignore them, tey just mimic actual human beings around them in hope they become human (like DnD) one day

[Dr. rotinaj]

I really don't understand the idea that floats around these forums that Vivienne is some evil queen b*tch but Morrigan never was. In DAO, Morrigan disapproves of the Warden trying to save Redcliffe and again when you promise to save the blacksmith's daughter, Vivienne approves of saving innocent people's lives. Let's not forget that Morrigan disapproves of the Warden not letting Caladrius give them power with a blood ritual that may involve sacrificing their own father. Let's be honest here, Vivienne is ruthless, goal-oriented, ambitious and a little b*tchy, but Morrigan was exactly the same but with some "kick the puppy" tendencies. 

 

I'd have Morrigan at NE (In DAO at least, In DAI I feel she is less evil. maybe CN)

Vivienne is either LG or LN to me. Depends on what you focus on I guess. She definitely is a social climber that wants power, but she also has mages and the Chantry's best interests in mind.

[RenAdaar]

I think morrigan started out NE but is now more of a true neutral character.

[AshenEndymion]

DA2 is an arc story, characters change their alignment based on your decisions especially the love interests.  Isabella is textbook CN, but you can prod her to the CG side by the end of it.  Ditto Fenris, you can turn him into a killing machine or help him come to grips with his past and get over it.  Anders is the problem case, mainly because of the writing is all over the place on him.  He's running a free clinic for poor people and then he becomes Dragon Age's Tim McVeigh.  Never made any sense, if he wanted to support the mages why not blow up Meredith who was the obvious villain in arc 3 anyways?  You can claim Anders has two alignments, one for both personalities, that's probably the easiest.  So Anders is CG, Justice becomes CE.

 

I agree that Anders could be construed as CG(though I'd go with CN).  But I see Justice as more of LE, rather than CE.  Justice abides by a strict code of what is right and what is wrong.  If you disobey that code, in any way, you deserve to be murdered.  And that's the epitome of LE, isn't it?

[Helios969]

Anders? Chaotic Stupid? Chaotic Selfish? Chaotic Plot Device?  I wouldn't really call him good or evil, though in 99.99% of my playthroughs I call him dead.

[tanuki]

Lawful Good – Wynne, Aveline, Cassandra

Neutral Good – Alistair, Leliana, Sigrun, Bethany, Varric, Solas

Chaotic Good – Nathaniel, Anders, Merril, Iron Bull, Dorian, Cole

 

Lawful Neutral – Sten, Blackwall, Justice

True Neutral – Dog (well, it’s a dog)

Chaotic Neutral – Shale, Zevran, Oghren, Velanna, Carver, Fenris, Isabela, Sera

 

Lawful Evil – Loghain, Vivienne

Neutral Evil - Morrigan

[Zwingtanz]

I think morrigan started out NE but is now more of a true neutral character.

Nah, she's still a selfish hag, just a tad more polite.

[TheGlen]

I agree that Anders could be construed as CG(though I'd go with CN).  But I see Justice as more of LE, rather than CE.  Justice abides by a strict code of what is right and what is wrong.  If you disobey that code, in any way, you deserve to be murdered.  And that's the epitome of LE, isn't it?

The problem is Justice takes out innocents on purpose to start a conflict, which is the definition of chaotic.  Taking out the chantry is what throws the wrench into the works,that in itself is about as CE as you can get.