On my first playthrough, I loved Bull's entertainment value while exploring, but found that I couldn't keep him alive without a lot of attention. Cass and Blackwall, on the other hand, were fortresses. I wondered if I could just switch his class and make him more of a tank. Anyone try this with some degree of luck?
Thanks!
I find he does not drop once on nightmare. Just got to build him right. Or bring a tank to draw the aggro.
Yep. He's fine as S&S. He's not as good as Cass or Blackwall but he's perfectly serviceable.
Yeah I used him as sword / shield warrior in my first two playthroughs. Just do SnS / Vanguard / Battlemaster trees, and he works just fine. If you get unbowed in Vanguard tree and combat roll in battlemaster he becomes more durable as a 2H. Set combat roll to preferred and he will use it quite intelligently.
I haven't had too many problems with him as a 2 hander. Most of the time he does fine as his own. You just have to give him ways to build up guard and not dump everything into the 2H tree. He does really good with whirlwind.
I used him as a S&S warrior once when I was experimenting with Cass as a 2H. Worked just fine. Nightmare.
I did.It even works on nightmare and with his Reaver tree filled and a mace with Guard on Hit.(even allowing him using Dragon Rage)
Yep. He's fine as S&S. He's not as good as Cass or Blackwall but he's perfectly serviceable.
How exactly is he worse as then Cassandra? Aside from the Templars focus ability, the tree doesnt offer additional options to built up guard. Its more offense and team buff/enemy debuff then anything else. And actually he has the advantage of his race passive that gives him natural melee defense.
How exactly is he worse as then Cassandra? Aside from the Templars focus ability, the tree doesnt offer additional options to built up guard. Its more offense and team buff/enemy debuff then anything else. And actually he has the advantage of his quanari passive that gives him natural melee defense.
Cassandra has party wide buffs in damage and if she falls (which is rarely) gives the party a decent boost. Bull doesn't. Bull's specialization also can cause fear which...if you're playing a dual wield dagger is rage inducing because you now have to waste stamina chasing people it's fine if you're playing a ranged character though.
That's how he's worse.
Plus his spec requires a hell of a lot more babysitting than Cass ever will.
How exactly is he worse as then Cassandra? Aside from the Templars focus ability, the tree doesnt offer additional options to built up guard. Its more offense and team buff/enemy debuff then anything else. And actually he has the advantage of his race passive that gives him natural melee defense.
Well, there is the whole head armor thing... points lost there. But at least he has one-up over our Qunari and can actually wear a helmet. A single helmet.
But yes, I have tried Bull as a sword-and-board character, it was quite fun. Turned Blackwall into a two-hander, since I've read a LOT of Two-Handed Champion posts. Really changed things up, made it more fun. Also Bull's commentary is gold, no matter who else is in the party.
I tried it, put him back to 2H, I like him better as a body guard and, he does tell you that's what he is - he's supposed to defend Quizzy, not be a tank and, he does perfectly at it. Yes that means if you are ranged then, he does a lot of standing near you and not fighting but, when something does get on you, he drops them fast. Then has time to grab a pot before more hit you, if he needs one. If I can and, he's 50% or less, I tell him to get a rest. pot. (not often, just boss fights I need to do that.)
One of the funniest things to see is if you play a 2H...then you and Bull can get dual whirlwind going. Clears rooms out really fast.
Cassandra has party wide buffs in damage and if she falls (which is rarely) gives the party a decent boost. Bull doesn't. Bull's specialization also can cause fear which...if you're playing a dual wield dagger is rage inducing because you now have to waste stamina chasing people it's fine if you're playing a ranged character though.
That's how he's worse.
Plus his spec requires a hell of a lot more babysitting than Cass ever will.
The role of the tank is to be able to take damage and holding threat. While Cassandras abilities are usefull, she still isnt better as a tank. Helms dont give much armor anyway and the lack of them for quanari are more then compensated by 25 melee damage resistance. And regarding the buffs,one can ignore the Reaver three and give him all battlemaster abilities.
The role of the tank is to be able to take damage and holding threat. While Cassandras abilities are usefull, she still isnt better as a tank. Helms dont give much armor anyway and the lack of them for quanari are more then compensated by 25 melee damage resistance. And regarding the buffs,one can ignore the Reaver three and give him all battlemaster abilities.
True it is.
Ignoring the Reaver tree in favor of battlemaster alright.
Also you can ignore Cass' templar tree and give her all battlemaster and they'll be just the same. That doesn't change the fact that she simply has access to buffs that he doesn't.
How exactly is he worse as then Cassandra? Aside from the Templars focus ability, the tree doesnt offer additional options to built up guard. Its more offense and team buff/enemy debuff then anything else. And actually he has the advantage of his race passive that gives him natural melee defense.
This. I used Bull as a tank on my first playthrough ever (nightmare, ff on) and it worked perfectly fine.
I tried it, put him back to 2H, I like him better as a body guard and, he does tell you that's what he is - he's supposed to defend Quizzy, not be a tank and, he does perfectly at it. Yes that means if you are ranged then, he does a lot of standing near you and not fighting but, when something does get on you, he drops them fast. Then has time to grab a pot before more hit you, if he needs one. If I can and, he's 50% or less, I tell him to get a rest. pot. (not often, just boss fights I need to do that.)
Interesting strategy, making him a bodyguard. I may have to try that.
Great suggestions...thanks for the tips everyone.
I tried it, put him back to 2H, I like him better as a body guard and, he does tell you that's what he is - he's supposed to defend Quizzy, not be a tank and, he does perfectly at it. Yes that means if you are ranged then, he does a lot of standing near you and not fighting but, when something does get on you, he drops them fast. Then has time to grab a pot before more hit you, if he needs one. If I can and, he's 50% or less, I tell him to get a rest. pot. (not often, just boss fights I need to do that.)
Very, very clever... I will have to give that a try on a mage or something. Never thought of doing something like that.
Very, very clever... I will have to give that a try on a mage or something. Never thought of doing something like that.
He will do just that...stand next to whatever character you want and basically act as a buffer. If you can give up the DPS by taking him out of the fight for stretches of time, it does make your party function well, especially if you're protecting a support mage. I've been trying this a bit, and with me playing as a rogue archer, and using stealth to move around without opposition, it leaves the mage to work alone without fear of getting ganked. As long as your tank is decent, the setup isn't bad. I'm still not sure which I like best though...Bull and Cass/Blackwall in tandem is also a force, and for the most part nobody goes after the mage with those two mucking it up.
Cassandra can stun which if you choose the combos-gain-focus ability is nice, Bull needs pommel to stun. I wanted to try Bull as S&S too, but it was out of some feeling I had that my group guys need to be 100%. I totally like running with his ravager perks on fire and his health on the ground. Cassandra is most likely to survive so she has revive mist bombs if he goes down I like to need the control high level alchemy brings, it doesn't feel like babysitting
I never had the heart to put a shield in his hand, that would be a RP joy kill for me, yet I totally agree Bull's companionship is unequaled.
Successfully used him as a sword & board tank on nightmare. While a champion has better defensive capabilities, the truth is that they have much better defense than you really need. Iron Bull works just fine as a tank.
He is definitely viable as he can build up guard reasonably well. I have two more questions related to this topic.
What spec is fun to play and allows me to use Bull more in the party? I have not used him tons on my first 3 playthroughs as a dual wield rogue, necromancer and 2 handed warrior. I want to do that though.
Secondly, I used war horn a lot with Blackwall this latest run. Does anyone have any preferences between that or horn of valor?
Thanks in advance guys.
Well, if you really wanna have fun with Bull as he is on the box, wait until the Two-Hander combo finishers are fixed. He has a lot of good impact finishers, and combine that with a frost-based mage, you'll be having shatters all over the place.
If you design him as a tank, well, your party always needs a tank, so no worries there, he'll be with you.
As for the Horns, well, I always preferred Horn of Valor. I like buffing over de-buffing. Usually feels easier to manage. Though it does sound like Bull puts the horn between his butt-cheeks and farts through it.
...Which he might actually do. Bull has a good, if somewhat crass, sense of humor.
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