222 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Flash Kick]

you have got to be kidding me.

 

What next? Change the name of those big heavy metal covers in the road from manhole covers to "personhole" covers?

I love George Carlin. 

[PaiSand]

I don't understand why people (men) reacted so bad to a simple idea... Oh! right...

 

Anyway, isn't that simple to change it. On the subtiltes probably it is, but reworking all the voices is a little expensive.

Perhaps Bioware can make a DLC with this in the near future and if you want it, buy it.

I think yours, Ziggy, is a good idea. 

[PrinceofTime]

Theres nitpicking and then there's this bullshit. 

 

Im sure there are other pressing matters that Bioware needs to address with this game.

[Dominic_910]

I don't understand why people (men) reacted so bad to a simple idea... Oh! right...

Why do you single out men? pretty sure some of the people that have posted are woman...actually I'm certain.

[Terodil]

This thread broke my 'like' button in more ways than one...

 

<Mordin> *sniff* Problematic. </Mordin>

[MikeJW]

Sometimes...I look at what people are worried about and what they get up in arms about and I'm just about ready for a big comet to hit the earth and end most life so these people would actually have something to worry about instead of inventing stuff.

 

Can we not have one damned thing not violated by politics or political correctness or modern huggy feely BS?

[Fidite Nemini]

This thread broke my 'like' button in more ways than one...

 

<Mordin> *sniff* Problematic. </Mordin>

 

There, you can have one of mine.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I can think of several in-game instances where 'men' is used as a catch-all term for 'people' - Bull constantly refers to his chargers as 'my men' despite the presence of Dalish and Skinner. Cullen does the same thing with the Inquisition soldiers at several points. Then there's 'magic was meant to serve man, never to rule over him.' (And no, 'men' and 'man' are not gender-neutral terms.)

 

I rolled my eyes at all of these, but I don't think it's worth worrying about that much. It would be nice if they stopped referring to mixed-gender groups of soldiers as 'men' in DA4, but I won't particularly mind if they don't. There are a lot of sexist language artefacts in English, and I don't expect BioWare to eliminate them all. Besides which, it makes in-character sense for Bull since he comes from a culture where all soldiers are male.

[Terodil]

 (And no, 'men' and 'man' are not gender-neutral terms.)

 

Yes, they are. It's called "Grammatical Gender". Been around since -- literally -- ancient times.

 

Be glad that you (English-speakers) don't have gender-specific version for each and every noun. German texts have been ritually mutilated to the point of becoming all but unreadable. What you would read as "Dear teachers, dear colleagues, dear students..." would become "Liebe Lehrerinnen und Lehrer, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, liebe Studentinnen und Studenten..." and nobody I know, neither women nor men, actually appreciate this clusterfuck of politically motivated language mutilation.

 

(Funnily enough, the activists campaining for this sort of change habitually 'forget' to demand analoguous change for "criminal", "murderer", "garbage man" etc... honi soit qui mal y pense.)

[Mirth]

I can think of several in-game instances where 'men' is used as a catch-all term for 'people' - Bull constantly refers to his chargers as 'my men' despite the presence of Dalish and Skinner. Cullen does the same thing with the Inquisition soldiers at several points. Then there's 'magic was meant to serve man, never to rule over him.' (And no, 'men' and 'man' are not gender-neutral terms.)

 

I rolled my eyes at all of these, but I don't think it's worth worrying about that much. It would be nice if they stopped referring to mixed-gender groups of soldiers as 'men' in DA4, but I won't particularly mind if they don't. There are a lot of sexist language artefacts in English, and I don't expect BioWare to eliminate them all. Besides which, it makes in-character sense for Bull since he comes from a culture where all soldiers are male.

 

Well, why is the Chantry then full of women, and the Divine in Thedas can only be a woman?

I mean.. if we're going to be politically correct...  we might as well start a gender war to go along with the holy war.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yes, they are. It's called "Grammatical Gender". Been around since -- literally -- ancient times.

 

Be glad that you (English-speakers) don't have gender-specific version for each and every noun. German texts have been ritually mutilated to the point of becoming all but unreadable. What you would read as "Dear teachers, dear colleagues, dear students..." would become "Liebe Lehrerinnen und Lehrer, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, liebe Studentinnen und Studenten..." and nobody I know, neither women nor men, actually appreciate this clusterfuck of politically motivated language mutilation.

 

(Funnily enough, the activists campaining for this sort of change habitually 'forget' to demand analoguous change for "criminal", "murderer" etc... honi soit qui mal y pense.)

 

Yes, that's what I said earlier, too. Only with less explanation.

 

 

Let's assume for a moment that you could make the game gender neutral in English... how do you propose to do the same in all the other languages? I can't see that happening in German... not without completely destroying the flow of the conversations.

[Captain Wiseass]

Well, why is the Chantry then full of women, and the Divine in Thedas can only be a woman?

Because the founder of the Church was a woman.

[Terodil]

Sorry Daemion -- it's late and I'm passionate about language integrity. =( Didn't want to play parrot.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Sorry Daemion -- it's late and I'm passionate about language integrity. =( Didn't want to play parrot.

 

I like your post more than my own.

 

People constantly forget that English is a very simple language, their nouns don't even have a gender.

[Karai9]

So OP, I've read your references and I do honestly understand where you're coming from in terms of real world perspective. That being said, I don't really feel that your concerns are warranted when it comes to DA. 

 

I play DA because I love RPGs, I love fantasy and I enjoy incredibly detailed and immersive stories. I also LOVE that it is one of few games that lets me play as a female that is not a weak and pathetic twit (unless I choose her to be so) and is not an objectified parody of a real woman whose giant boobs are on their own separate rig and seemingly defy every law of physics.

 

^ Why tell you that? Simply because I want you to know that as a female, I'm all too aware of those kinds of themes in games, just as I'm aware of language that generalizes everything into a category of maleness, and I don't find that DA does this at all. On the contrary, I think the writers have done a really good job of changing the meanings of words to reflect how THEDAS uses them, as opposed to here on planet Earth. The best example I can think of to highlight this is "Ser/Sir/Serah". This 'title' is used regardless of one's gender in the game, and signifies the equality of both genders, rather than saying to me (like your references suggest) that 'Male is norm and female is other'. I read this as saying that Ser/Sir/Serah has always been gender neutral in Thedas.

[Captain Wiseass]

The founder of the Chantry as an institution was a man.. Emperor Drakon. Even if it was a woman, it doesn't necessitate that only women are allowed there.

Well, Jesus being a man doesn't necessitate that all priests be men, but that's the system we have right now. (It's changing, ever so slowly, but there you go.)

[Jestina]

Pushing for modern, liberal views in a game with an ancient setting. Dumb.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Sometimes...I look at what people are worried about and what they get up in arms about and I'm just about ready for a big comet to hit the earth and end most life so these people would actually have something to worry about instead of inventing stuff.

 

Can we not have one damned thing not violated by politics or political correctness or modern huggy feely BS?

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS FORM

YOU WILL HUG AND YOU WILL LIKE IT
WE KNOW THIS HURTS YOU

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Pushing for modern, liberal views in a game with an ancient setting. Dumb.

OR IS IT IRONIC JUXTAPOSITION?!

[daveliam]

Pushing for modern, liberal views in a game with an ancient setting. Dumb.

 

Dragon Age isn't in an ancient setting.  It's a fictional world.  It could be set 500 years in the future on a different planet for all you know. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

How about Bioware fix actual bug and problems in the game before bothering with such trivial matters?

[cotheer]

I've seen weirder requests soooo I don't care either way.
BWs pandering to everyone and their stubborn attempts to be as f'n politically correct as possible have brought us to this point, the point where their games especially, are becoming some weird mutation of fantasy and real world problems which is what I'm trying to escape from.


Just....*disgusted noise*

[Winged Silver]

The best example I can think of to highlight this is "Ser/Sir/Serah". This 'title' is used regardless of one's gender in the game, and signifies the equality of both genders, rather than saying to me (like your references suggest) that 'Male is norm and female is other'. I read this as saying that Ser/Sir/Serah has always been gender neutral in Thedas.

 

Agreed with this. I've also felt that Bioware has done a pretty good job at keeping things fairly gender neutral. But to the OP, I don't think your request is invalid. However, I do think they've done a pretty good job. And I don't get why so many people are talking about Bioware having liberal ideas as a bad thing it doesn't make sense to me. If one is so intent on escaping the real world, wouldn't it make sense to have the world you escape to be made up of a diverse and (more or less) accepting people? I wish we'd see more diversity in other games.

[Angry_Elcor]

OP doesn't go far enough. We need to change the very words that hurt women with their genderness. We dewomand change! BioWare needs to dewomanstrate sensitivity to this issue.

 

If we are to be respected in society, we must be adawomant about addressing issues of gender inequality in language. I comwomand BioWare to listen to us about this!

 

Enough womaniacal egowomania behind these words. Ending male-specific gender terms should be womandatory!