222 réponses à ce sujet

[BartDude52]

@Natashina: Ok, I see then. That thought never occurred to me (though, I am male, so that probably has something to do with it). To be honest though, it still doesn't really bother me that much, but I appreciate your viewpoint. Thanks for your insight.

[Grieving Natashina]

Natashina, you are out to rob me of all my likes for the day aren't you >.>

 

That is interesting, and a completely different angle than what I expected. Thanks for that. On the one hand, I totally agree with you. On the other hand, I think it was a nice touch to give the GW the option to act in such a manner. Males have no monopoly on being asshats

Too true, and I see your point.

 

 However, I think there is other ways to act like a jerk and I think they did a better job this time around.  Why make a snarky gender based comment when you can judge, imprison and conscript your enemies?  Or get really creative,  like turning a certain noble into a personal jester.  

 

 

@Natashina: Ok, I see then. That thought never occurred to me (though, I am male, so that probably has something to do with it). To be honest though, it still doesn't really bother me that much, but I appreciate your viewpoint. Thanks for your insight.

No problem.  It bothers me a little bit, but it's not like that was the only conversation option.   There was several choices for that conversation, so it's not a big deal.  It's there as an option; I didn't care for it; I ignored it and moved on with my game.  

[Panda]

I still wonder why people are so aggressively reacting to simple request. It wouldn't affect anyone much.

 

As Finn, I think english is often unnecessarily gendered language. There is different pronouns for he and she (why, I don't have no idea) instead of having one. And unlike in my country, if you call people "It" which is genderneutral people get offended. And then because there is not gender neutral he/she and it is out of question lot of trans/non-binary people have invented own pronounces like xir which just makes everything even more complicated.

 

Then there is job names. Actor-actress. Waitor-waitress. Why you need have two forms of same job? Finland used to have similarly gendered job names but that was decades ago. Female actor isn't "Näyttelijätär" anymore, she's "Näyttelijä".

 

Still I'm not too bothered "manhood" and words like that. But usually words slowly change towards more genderneutral as I have observed cause most of these words that include masculinity are cause historically women were excluded and gender seperation was more important than nowdays.

[Terodil]

Since I almost exclusively play female characters... I sometimes want both!

 

(OK now this is something we HAVE to talk about. Why does this forum only have a male devil smiley? I demand a female devil. Especially since we have fantastic precedence!)

 

(Warning, slightly NSFW, hence spoilered)

Spoiler

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Since I almost exclusively play female characters... I sometimes want both!

 

(OK now this is something we HAVE to talk about. Why does this forum only have a male devil smiley? I demand a female devil. Especially since we have fantastic precedence!)

 

(Warning, slightly NSFW, hence spoilered)

Spoiler

...because feminists will complain about it. Since there are no worldwide masculine organizations no one will complain over a male devil smiley

[AdamJames]

Serious genuine real talk now though.

 

No creme de la meme elfy business.

 

This is a video game. This is Thedas. This is NOT your personal tumblr or whatever. People are NOT going to use fancy gender-neutral pronouns in this setting because they're scared they might trigger someone. This is a world where demons literally FALL OUT OF THE SKY and zombie ghoul monsters with poison blood CRAWL OUT OF THE GROUND. I very much doubt the first thing going through someone's mind in Thedas is "do I refer to this person as he, she, zhe, it or they", it's probably something more along the lines of "I seriously hope I'm not stabbed to death or set on fire today". Just because you're a sensitive snowflake and your heart aches whenever a white cis male calls you by your genetic gender doesn't mean that the developers of a videogame are going to EDIT THEIR PRE-RECORDED LINES to pander to 'muh gender-neutral pronoun anti-oppression gamergate no negative reaction lyfestyle'. That costs money and recording time. They could use that money and recording time to make a DLC that actually expands on the story, or on the characters, or what have you.

 

I know that MIGHT seem a bit harsh. I know I MIGHT seem like a bit of a arse right now. I know this was a suggestion, and I know it's on the BSN so it should be expected. But, jesus christ, it's 3:30 am and this is literally the dumbest **** I've seen all day. And all yesterday too, honestly.

 

A person politely asks to make Dragon Age a more welcoming place. You rage at them for daring to waste the mighty developer's time with "sensitivity" and "heart ache" from being misgendered (which are apparently trivial in light of the very real fantasy battles being waged all across Thedas). And all of this is so unimportant that you take the time to make a very serious post to educate this impertinent interloper on exactly why they can't have what they asked for: in brief, because it might detract from the things you want. And as we all know, any time the less privileged ask for something, what they really want is for something to be taken away from us. Lucky for that person you didn't hold back and gave them some real tough talk. So congratulations, you saved yourself from having to critically examine the portrayal of gender in the games you play, and you saved the BSN from being infected with compassion or inclusiveness.

[Etragorn]

Oh for f*ck's sake...

You read my mind. This politically correct crap has really gone too far at this point.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

A person politely asks to make Dragon Age a more welcoming place. You rage at them for daring to waste the mighty developer's time with "sensitivity" and "heart ache" from being misgendered (which are apparently trivial in light of the very real fantasy battles being waged all across Thedas). And all of this is so unimportant that you take the time to make a very serious post to educate this impertinent interloper on exactly why they can't have what they asked for: in brief, because it might detract from the things you want. And as we all know, any time the less privileged ask for something, what they really want is for something to be taken away from us. Lucky for that person you didn't hold back and gave them some real tough talk. So congratulations, you saved yourself from having to critically examine the portrayal of gender in the games you play, and you saved the BSN from being infected with compassion or inclusiveness.

 

Yeah. Welcoming place.

Just saying, if Thedas in middle of demon invasion comes a welcoming place I quit both the game, the franchise and the developer.

 

Why?
Because Thedas shouldn't be welcoming place at the start of the game. It's us, infinite inquisition usses who have to make Thedas more welcoming through solving threats. It's what we do by wiping demons, judging criminals, helping good people of all sorts and killing people we decide bad. 

 

And 1 more thing. I have both male and female playthroughs of my own.

And both Inquisitiors were mainly referred to as 'Your worship', 'Your grace' or 'Ser'. Disregard the gender of the Inquisitor.

 

Game is fine here, don't look for sissy trouble when we have lingering wounds around like bugs, poor writing in general, weak tactical control and on, and on, and on.

[Uccio]

Use finnish, the gender free language.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Use finnish, the gender free language.

I always wanted to learn Finnish :/ Such a beatiful language that sounds somewhat like Elvish. Still it's real O.O

Could you share any online guide for it please?

[Ashen Nedra]

...because feminists will complain about it. Since there are no worldwide masculine organizations no one will complain over a male devil smiley

 

I should start one them.

 

Sorry, not wanting to be offensive, but where would you stop? Does nobody remember the N...word incident, from real life or SouthPark? Or Orwell?

 

We already had a French member of parliament fined for insisting to use the academically correct form of address to the woman Speaker, because of some bullshit law they passed to cover up the financial crisis we are going through.

 

This is madness.

[Uccio]

I always wanted to learn Finnish :/ Such a beatiful language that sounds somewhat like Elvish. Still it's real O.O

Could you share any online guide for it please?

 

 

That is a tough one, maybe here? http://www.finland.o...px?nodeid=40999

 

There are links (the middle one I think) for state sponsored free online studies. 

 

And here: http://oppiminen.yle...ish/easyfinnish and here http://venla.info/grammar.php, or http://www.uuno.tamk.fi/

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

That is a tough one, maybe here? http://www.finland.o...px?nodeid=40999

 

There are links (the middle one I think) for state sponsored free online studies. 

Thank you there a lot!

 

As for the tough languages - I braved Russian. Doubt Finnish is more difficult than a language where different types of frees have different genders.

[papercut_ninja]

Use finnish, the gender free language.

 

Hell yes!!!...

 

...with Peter Franzén as VA

[Uccio]

Internet is serious business.

[Etragorn]

Its getting to the point where I can't tell the difference between trolls and extremists

That's because they are one and the same in the effect they have on online communities.
 

As a female, and a lesbian, you'd think I'd be more sympathetic to such causes...
 
Yeah... nah.

That's because you're a reasonable person, an endangered group of individuals in this day and age. I believe they will completely disappear sooner rather than later, and at that point the world as we know it will be completely doomed.

[Uccio]

Thank you there a lot!

 

As for the tough languages - I braved Russian. Doubt Finnish is more difficult than a language where different types of frees have different genders.

 

Yes well, it is not so difficult than people tend to think at first. Just needs a bit different approach. ps. I added couple more links. 

 

Good luck. 

[Octarin]

What do gender neutrality or transgender issues have to do with socialism?

 

(I'm going to regret asking that question, aren't I?)

 

ROFLMAO!!! yes, yes you will. AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

On the OP note, seriously, there are SO MANY other horribly pressing issues to be address about this game, that something like this is... not just minor, but also terribly badly timed. Sure, go ahead and make that request when the game's not riddled with holes and bugs and glitches, when people aren't complaining about half the content missing and whatever else. But making this request right now, well, it is met with the indignant fury it's expected to meet. Yes, I have gay friends and I do understand that gay people do tend to prioritize quite badly when it comes to knee-jerk reactions like this, and this really must end. So, please, prioritize better and time it better too, if you want to have a positive reaction.

[Grieving Natashina]

Er, the OP never mentioned anything about being gay in this entire thread, unless I missed something.   While I agree with most of the rest of what you said (as far as the timing being seen as poor, though this is the Feedback section and clicking on the thread is optional,) don't assume that the OP's sexuality has anything at all to do with their request.  Please don't stereotype like that, okay?

 

Also, I think the knee-jerk reaction is from folks that are completely burned out with feminist-type issues in gaming and see this as another example of it becoming overkill.  I don't feel the same way, but that seems to be the case.   Now, why they continue to post in this thread is beyond me, but that's my take on it.

[Octarin]

Yes, they are. It's called "Grammatical Gender". Been around since -- literally -- ancient times.

 

Be glad that you (English-speakers) don't have gender-specific version for each and every noun. German texts have been ritually mutilated to the point of becoming all but unreadable. What you would read as "Dear teachers, dear colleagues, dear students..." would become "Liebe Lehrerinnen und Lehrer, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen, liebe Studentinnen und Studenten..." and nobody I know, neither women nor men, actually appreciate this clusterfuck of politically motivated language mutilation.

 

(Funnily enough, the activists campaining for this sort of change habitually 'forget' to demand analoguous change for "criminal", "murderer", "garbage man" etc... honi soit qui mal y pense.)

 

Iloveyoumarryme

[katokires]

Nerd environment: The most male dominant place in the world. Women bow to men and are rewarded more than they do in other places.

This is sad.

But yeah, ok, keep doing your stuff men. Everytime a man (or a woman reproducing men speech) reacts to a feminist (or feminist like) demand everything just speaks out loud exactly what feminist say: Men just want women opressed in their places. Either believing they are already equal, the shouldn't be equal or that they shouldn't talk. As long as things remain in their places, women are allowed to do anything, as long as it is not meaningful, as long as it does not remove the directive that says that women should be different, feminine.

 

It is like Cassandra, people complaining she is not female enough... GOD... she is a little delicate feminine flower and people even called her a man... tha talks a lot about how enslaving femininity is. A woman as feminine as Cassandra can be considered a man... holy... ******... jesus...

That says a lot about what being a woman means for males, and what they teach woman they should be.

So if a woman isn't blessed by Aphrodite and Freyja to have delicate facial features and decide to join the army, practice hypertrophy and dedicate herself to master her physical abilities with martial art, sports and sniping. She wants to be the best. Also she does not have a sweet voice, neither does she wear "women" clothes or walk "like a woman". What is she? She becomes a man then? No. But a lot of people would try to make her a proper woman...

Seen that hundreds of times. Even with my ex-girlfriend, her boss asked her to use "at least an eyeliner and lip gloss" since she dealt with people and people expect women to wear makeup... JESUS... a friend from college had to wear high heels... yeah right.. well... all things made up by feminists, or perhaps there are cromossomes that make people wear make-up and high heels... probably this right? because it makes sense...

Also, every single woman I have ever met was sexually abused, three of them by their own fathers, another 5 from relatives like uncle, brother or cousin...

Yeah, I'm completely dellusional... it is nothing cultural, and stating that these beings are in fact somehow different has absolutely NOTHING related to this, it is just coincidence that these people with vagina are called women, assigned a HUGE and CRUEL set of characteristics and they end up being abused

Also we teach them from birth to be submissive, weak and incomplete and that is somehow unrelated to anything else

We give them impractical clothes and accessories, teach them to be pretty, calm, sensitive, and so on and again it makes no difference

There are a lot of submissive ritual they have to undergo to be accepted in society like removing body hair, wearing make up, speking in a higher pitch lower volume voice... or not speaking at all since it is considered rude to women voice their opinion ina LOT of situations

Well, of course I'm just vomiting **** here, uselessly, because even if you deny it all I see it every day and every night with women from 100 years old to as early before they are born. People already plan the enslavement of a person with vagina before that being even comes to exist...

"This is not a woman thing" is a common phrase almost everywhere, perhaps, and I said perhaps, not in Sweden (and I hope Finland too). To deprive a being of something because someone someday said that existed gender is absurd. Being male or female means nothing but the physical consequences of having different body development, how it lead to this huge set of "features" males and females should have is ridiculous. In a world where you don't force people with vagina to be fragile there would be no girls, being a girl is the result of successfully submitting to society rules of female opression.

Oh, and BTW, a lot of women are hurt, or even killed for not performing the "female role", happens everywhere from USA to afeghanistan. Feminists are crazy right? They are... my friend that looks like a butch lesbian was injured by three adult man saying she needed dick (well she is hetero despite looking like a lesbian), it is all delirious, I'm just a crazy person

Well, what else can I say? Men are level 20 bards, they lied and conditioned women for thousands of years to the point that most of them just want to fit the "Perfect slave" archetype to "get a man" since they don't even believe they can live without one. Sad story. Make the abused believe she likes being abused and it is all set. Know what is even worse? Man actually do this, literally too, not just as a figure of speech. They got what they want for centuries now, made rape seem desireable and opression persued (women talk for hours about how to be sexy and beautiful and even spen lots of money on it). Just call feminist crazy and you're set to go for more ten thousand years of opression.

[Ashen Nedra]

That's because they are one and the same in the effect they have on online communities.
 

That's because you're a reasonable person, an endangered group of individuals in this day and age. I believe they will completely disappear sooner rather than later, and at that point the world as we know it will be completely doomed.

 

OP, let me tell you a true story.  It may sound a little Spartan intense (pun), but please bear with me, it's serious:

 

One of my close friends lost his dream job (business lawyer, so a huge salary gap between firms), the job he worked for basically his entire life, to a woman candidate, back in 2007 I think.

 

He was told -and he's convinced it's because of that, which is more important-  he didn't get the offer, after 6 months as an intern, sleeping maybe 3 hours a night on average, that said woman candidate was only recruited because the firm was getting a lot of heat worldwide (US originated bullshitery, you could guess) to add some women to this particular office.

 

My friend is not only a business lawyer (senior associate now, making maybe 300 000 euros a year in Paris) but also a socialite and clubber, of German, American Jewish and Lebanese descent. His father was an ambassador.

 

He already had, frankly, a terrible attitude towards women.

 

Such people and their extended family, talk between themselves, become owner of industries or businesses, are patrons of the arts, landlords, you name it. They then sometimes, only sometimes (irony), have children, that they then raise according to their values and personal experiences.

 

Because of one instance of political correctness bullshitery, women, and women cause, got virally f*ucked.

 

Hearts and Minds, my lily withe...(thank you Bethgael for this one)

[Kantr]

I still wonder why people are so aggressively reacting to simple request. It wouldn't affect anyone much.

 

As Finn, I think english is often unnecessarily gendered language. There is different pronouns for he and she (why, I don't have no idea) instead of having one. And unlike in my country, if you call people "It" which is genderneutral people get offended. And then because there is not gender neutral he/she and it is out of question lot of trans/non-binary people have invented own pronounces like xir which just makes everything even more complicated.

 

Then there is job names. Actor-actress. Waitor-waitress. Why you need have two forms of same job? Finland used to have similarly gendered job names but that was decades ago. Female actor isn't "Näyttelijätär" anymore, she's "Näyttelijä".

 

Still I'm not too bothered "manhood" and words like that. But usually words slowly change towards more genderneutral as I have observed cause most of these words that include masculinity are cause historically women were excluded and gender seperation was more important than nowdays.

Blame the languages english stole from. I once saw a saying that said "In german even potatoes have gender" (or something like that). So it's a lot less complicated than the languages of europe