222 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

 

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Try using the words, "Some," or, "In my experience" when you are referring to a group.  I'd ask the same of anyone talking about men, women and/or feminists, religion or any large group like that.  Please, enough with the stupid blanket stereotyping. 

 

Oh and FYI: Not everyone that has been rolling their eyes at this are men, either.  Again, I don't see anything wrong with the OP's request myself.  However, it isn't just men that thinks the topic is a silly one.

 

On that note, I'm out before lock.  Try not to be total jerks to one another in the meantime.

[Octarin]

Serious genuine real talk now though.

 

No creme de la meme elfy business.

 

This is a video game. This is Thedas. This is NOT your personal tumblr or whatever. People are NOT going to use fancy gender-neutral pronouns in this setting because they're scared they might trigger someone. This is a world where demons literally FALL OUT OF THE SKY and zombie ghoul monsters with poison blood CRAWL OUT OF THE GROUND. I very much doubt the first thing going through someone's mind in Thedas is "do I refer to this person as he, she, zhe, it or they", it's probably something more along the lines of "I seriously hope I'm not stabbed to death or set on fire today". Just because you're a sensitive snowflake and your heart aches whenever a white cis male calls you by your genetic gender doesn't mean that the developers of a videogame are going to EDIT THEIR PRE-RECORDED LINES to pander to 'muh gender-neutral pronoun anti-oppression gamergate no negative reaction lyfestyle'. That costs money and recording time. They could use that money and recording time to make a DLC that actually expands on the story, or on the characters, or what have you.

 

I know that MIGHT seem a bit harsh. I know I MIGHT seem like a bit of a arse right now. I know this was a suggestion, and I know it's on the BSN so it should be expected. But, jesus christ, it's 3:30 am and this is literally the dumbest **** I've seen all day. And all yesterday too, honestly.

 

Faith in humanity restored. 

[Ashen Nedra]

Er, the OP never mentioned anything about being gay in this entire thread, unless I missed something.   While I agree with most of the rest of what you said (as far as the timing being seen as poor, though this is the Feedback section and clicking on the thread is optional,) don't assume that the OP's sexuality has anything at all to do with their request.  Please don't stereotype like that, okay?

 

Also, I think the knee-jerk reaction is from folks that are completely burned out with feminist-type issues in gaming and see this as another example of it becoming overkill.  I don't feel the same way, but that seems to be the case.   Now, why they continue to post in this thread is beyond me, but that's my take on it.

Simple.  Hearts and Minds. It can go both ways, you know, dear Natashina.

[Octarin]

I'm an English teacher, and it is currently considered to be sexist language in most if not all academic circles. In fact the textbook I teach out of has a section called "Sexist Language" and offers examples to students on how to avoid it.

It hurts no one to at least discuss and work slowly towards changing the way we deal with gender and language. Meanwhile, doing nothing, or worse, mocking or insulting those who politely suggest or ask for change, accomplishes nothing.

 

Amazingly, so am I and we still teach kids "he" and "she" without getting a PC rebound from anyone or anything. Weird huh?

[Panda]

Blame the languages english stole from. I once saw a saying that said "In german even potatoes have gender" (or something like that). So it's a lot less complicated than the languages of europe

 

I'd say italian is most gendered language I have seen. Everything has gender and I don't know why, it just seems silly to me.

 

Well finnish is european language as well. From my viewpoint English is too gendered for my liking but I agree that it isn't most gendered language there is ^^

[Ashen Nedra]

Internet is serious business.

Indeed

[Octarin]

Well judging from my experience some people are still kids in their mid 20s

 

You're such an optimist luvie... in their late 50s you mean. 

[Kantr]

I'd say italian is most gendered language I have seen. Everything has gender and I don't know why, it just seems silly to me.

 

Well finnish is european language as well. From my viewpoint English is too gendered for my liking but I agree that it isn't most gendered language there is ^^

Well. Its in europe but its the Scandinavian tree

 

I prefer Italian to french (not that I can speak it, but it sounds nicer than french)

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I'd say italian is most gendered language I have seen. Everything has gender and I don't know why, it just seems silly to me.

 

Well finnish is european language as well. From my viewpoint English is too gendered for my liking but I agree that it isn't most gendered language there is ^^

Russian has gender for every noun. Since that most verbs have gender forms, too. Even some adjectives are gender-related. Most adjectives have all three gender-related forms.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

seriously?

 

my version is localised (unfortunately i cannot change it to english). i have IB's spec in female form, HoF's gender is random (some people believe she was a male, some use correct form), Hawke is a female with beard... i'm pretty sure every localised version has its quirks, if they decided to use 'gender-neutral-language', i wouldn't understand a single word out of this mess (verbs in my native language contain the information about gender, i cannot bend my mind to even imagine the hell of translating gender neutral text)

[Octarin]

As a female, and a lesbian, you'd think I'd be more sympathetic to such causes...

 

Yeah... nah.

 

Preach it sister! Oh good gods and they think they're doing LGBT people a favour this way... so thumbs up this comment!

[Your Mum]

A person politely asks to make Dragon Age a more welcoming place. You rage at them for daring to waste the mighty developer's time with "sensitivity" and "heart ache" from being misgendered (which are apparently trivial in light of the very real fantasy battles being waged all across Thedas). And all of this is so unimportant that you take the time to make a very serious post to educate this impertinent interloper on exactly why they can't have what they asked for: in brief, because it might detract from the things you want. And as we all know, any time the less privileged ask for something, what they really want is for something to be taken away from us. Lucky for that person you didn't hold back and gave them some real tough talk. So congratulations, you saved yourself from having to critically examine the portrayal of gender in the games you play, and you saved the BSN from being infected with compassion or inclusiveness.

 

Luckily I don't 'critically examine the portrayal of gender in the games I play', because I like to focus on things like story narrative, player/world interaction and gameplay mechanics.

 

You know.

 

The things that the developers actually want us to focus on.

[Octarin]

Er, the OP never mentioned anything about being gay in this entire thread, unless I missed something.   While I agree with most of the rest of what you said (as far as the timing being seen as poor, though this is the Feedback section and clicking on the thread is optional,) don't assume that the OP's sexuality has anything at all to do with their request.  Please don't stereotype like that, okay?

 

Also, I think the knee-jerk reaction is from folks that are completely burned out with feminist-type issues in gaming and see this as another example of it becoming overkill.  I don't feel the same way, but that seems to be the case.   Now, why they continue to post in this thread is beyond me, but that's my take on it.

 

Well, judging by the reply, you didn't get what I meant. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe you should re-read it. Or maybe I should explain.

 

I didn't say the OP is gay, I said I have gay friends, and I am aware of their sensitivity to such issues. The knee-jerk reaction is this request in the midst of an ocean of more pressing game problems. 

 

I hope that clarified it ever more.

[Ashen Nedra]

Well, judging by the reply, you didn't get what I meant. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe you should re-read it. Or maybe I should explain.

 

I didn't say the OP is gay, I said I have gay friends, and I am aware of their sensitivity to such issues. The knee-jerk reaction is this request in the midst of an ocean of more pressing game problems. 

 

I hope that clarified it ever more.

Sorry to seek attention (pun) Octarin, but what do you think of my true story and its morals?

 

This a deep political (don't worry I don't belong to any political party and I'm not running for **** anytime soon), ethical and philosophical conviction of mine.

 

Political correctness is a cancer on our world. And it's very, very, very dangerous and counter-productive.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, judging by the reply, you didn't get what I meant. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe you should re-read it. Or maybe I should explain.

 

I didn't say the OP is gay, I said I have gay friends, and I am aware of their sensitivity to such issues. The knee-jerk reaction is this request in the midst of an ocean of more pressing game problems. 

 

I hope that clarified it ever more.

Popped back in to respond to this, so you didn't think I was ignoring you.  

 

I am in the LGBT community and I honestly have no idea what you're getting at here.   Yes, this is a concern for some members of the LGBT community, but it is far from just their providence or the providence of feminists.   I know some straight men that have posted in favor of wanting more gender neutral language in older threads, that didn't claim to be feminists in any way.  I've seen a lot of straight women ask for this too.  

 

That's why I think you're making parallels that aren't necessarily there; this isn't something that only the LGBT community or even women have expressed wanting in the past.   It's easy to think that if someone cares about these kinds of issues, that they must be LGBT or they must be a woman or that they must be a feminist.   Or that they must be anything.  All you have to do is "Be alive, play the game, be of reasonably sound-ish mind with free will, and have an internet connection with passable typing skills."  That's pretty much all it takes to get anyone interested in a social issue in relation to a DA game on the BSN (aka the forums.)

 

  If it seems like I'm giving you grief, I promise I'm not.  Thanks for trying to let me know where you were coming from.  I think we've got a minor miscommunication going on here.  

 

If you want to chat further, we can take this to PM.   I might be going to bed soon, but my door is open and I will get back to you if I don't tonight.  

[Panda]

Russian has gender for every noun. Since that most verbs have gender forms, too. Even some adjectives are gender-related. Most adjectives have all three gender-related forms.

 

Weird o.O

 

And finnish is claimed to be really hard language to learn although most stuff is genderneutral ^^;

[Ashen Nedra]

Luckily I don't 'critically examine the portrayal of gender in the games I play', because I like to focus on things like story narrative, player/world interaction and gameplay mechanics.

 

You know.

 

The things that the developers actually want us to focus on.

like

[NasChoka]

Blame the languages english stole from. I once saw a saying that said "In german even potatoes have gender" (or something like that). So it's a lot less complicated than the languages of europe

That's true. Potatoes are female.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Weird o.O

 

And finnish is claimed to be really hard language to learn although most stuff is genderneutral ^^;

 

Yeah, imagine the pain of understanding that almost everything has a gender. Even some things that doesn't make sense at first.

 

Let's stick to the trees as I've mentioned above.

 

Birch tree is called 'bereza' in Russian and it is female.

Let's say that the birch tree is beatiful and it was standing somewhere we point a finger at. No longer tho.

'Tam stoyala (There was) krasivaya (a beatiful) bereza (birch tree)'

 

Oak, however, is a male. And it is called 'dub'.

Let's say the same sentence we did in the first example.

'Tam stoyal (There was) krasivyi (a beatiful) dub (oak tree)'.

 

And now imagine everything has a gender, every item and living thing in the world. 'Pencil' is male, but 'Pen' is female. 'Fence' is male, but 'Wall' is a female. 'Car' is a female, but 'Jeep' is a male, and you call one thing (for example and outlander Jeep) both car (female) and Jeep (male) words.

[Ashen Nedra]

That's true. Potatoes are female.

 

The one which was the more difficult for me to memorize as a student was "Das Madchen" (sorry can't find the Umlaut on my board, been too long), la jeune fille, the maiden.

 

Languages and their history are so fascinating. No wonder Tolkien was a philologist.

Modifié par Ashen Nedra, 21 janvier 2015 - 10:37 .

[Panda]

Yeah, imagine the pain of understanding that almost everything has a gender. Even some things that doesn't make sense at first.

 

Let's stick to the trees as I've mentioned above.

 

Birch tree is called 'bereza' in Russian and it is female.

Let's say that the birch tree is beatiful and it was standing somewhere we point a finger at. No longer tho.

'Tam stoyala (There was) krasivaya (a beatiful) bereza (birch tree)'

 

Oak, however, is a male. And it is called 'dub'.

Let's say the same sentence we did in the first example.

'Tam stoyal (There was) krasivyi (a beatiful) dub (oak tree)'.

 

And now imagine everything has a gender, every item and living thing in the world. 'Pencil' is male, but 'Pen' is female. 'Fence' is male, but 'Wall' is a female. 'Car' is a female, but 'Jeep' is a male, and you call one thing (for example and outlander Jeep) both car (female) and Jeep (male) words.

 

Sounds like the time I studied Italian. "Hmm is the church female or male?" I wonder why is it that way, to give object genders? Sounds unnecessary to me.

[Ryzaki]

Sounds like the time I studied Italian. "Hmm is the church female or male?" I wonder why is it that way, to give object genders? Sounds unnecessary to me.

 

I call my laptop a she.

 

...

 

*flees*

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Sounds like the time I studied Italian. "Hmm is the church female or male?" I wonder why is it that way, to give object genders? Sounds unnecessary to me.

 

As I went here to study Russian history (which is fascinating) I can say that's because of highly traditional society Russians have. Until 988 AC they were worshipping their own Gods and believed those are represented in daily, mundane things.

 

So, the local God of war shares authority over Power and Respect, and since most weapons and attributes of power are male.

Russian fertility Goddess is obviously female, and is represented in a lot of traditional agriculture terms and gear. Nature goes there too.

 

And so on.