222 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen Nedra]

As I went here to study Russian history (which is fascinating) I can say that's because of highly traditional society Russians have. Until 988 AC they were worshipping their own Gods and believed those are represented in daily, mundane things.

 

So, the local God of war shares authority over Power and Respect, and since most weapons and attributes of power are male.

Russian fertility Goddess is obviously female, and is represented in a lot of traditional agriculture terms and gear. Nature goes there too.

 

And so on.

You know, it's the same for English...look at the name of the days of the week.  Not exactly Christian, now is it?

 

Go Vikings! (sorry couldn't resist)

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

You know, it's the same for English...look at the name of the days of the week.  Not exactly Christian, now is it?

 

Go Vikings! (sorry couldn't resist)

Btw English grammar looks suprizingly similar to Russian. But it's hell of a simplified ofc.

As Russian feudal country was first settled by invited Normanns (possibly swedish people), Northern Russians might be sharing a lot with other European peoples. The only difference is Russians didn't quit as much culture as other nations due to PC.

[Ashen Nedra]

I know how to solve this... refer to everybody as "it"!

 

Wait.. no. That wouldn't work... it's too offensive.

 

@ Octarin: (sorry, that quote button doesn't seem to work for me)

 

As a member of the LGBT community, I am actually disgusted with the PC influence.

 

This is how I see things....

 

I don't have an issue with gay marriage, and equal rights and all of that jazz... in fact, I see it as a worthy goal.

 

But the way the typical PC/SJW crowd push it... it's "victim mentality".

 

I absolutely despite "victim mentality" and I think the LGBT community is losing its self-respect by going so far out there with "gimme my rights" which has translated to "Pity me, pity me. I'm gay/transgender so give me my rights."

 

For starters, with gay marriage... it seems to me like we, as people attracted to the same sex, are seeking society and government approval to love somebody. I love whoever the f*ck I want and couldn't give two tosses what society and especially government thinks. I think it's degrading to get on my knees and beg the state to recognise this when it's none of their business anyway...

Why not just have some private ceremony to celebrate love? Why do we have to have a government approved document and a ring?

 

I've experienced discrimination over my sexual preferences... so I know firsthand that it isn't nice. But I also think it's an individual matter, for the individual to deal with. If they don't like me because I prefer clam to sausage, then I don't like them simply because somebody who thinks that way can actually exist... and that's that. Whatever issues stem from that is, again, like I say, an individual matter for said individual to deal with.

 

I know for a fact that at the end of the day, PC agendas and propaganda (while having good intentions) go nowhere. People will continue to be... people. I am sorry but you cannot expect a diverse group of people in society to be at peace, especially when it's conflict that we get off to. We are not superior to animals... in fact, I could say that animals are smarter than people because they are not bound to ridiculous governments with all of their paperwork BS, don't require a "higher power" to dictate how to live -- it just comes naturally.

 

So yes, political correctness is a counter-productive cancer. I am so glad that I joined this forum and have had discussions with many others who see through the farce that it really is.

 

Want to know the ironic truth?

 

Political correctness is just another tool of power -- the very tool it fights against. Those who preach it are not better than the so called bigots themselves.

 

I am a bigot.

 

But hey -- least I'm an honourable one.

100000000000000 likes. QFT.  Marry or PACS (french thing) a friend of mine

[Giant ambush beetle]

And while we're at it lets also change that evil oppressive word ''Woman'' into woperson instead.

Its easy guys!

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

And while we're at it lets also change that evil oppressive word ''Woman'' into woperson instead.

Its easy guys!

Careful there, I need to clean my keyboard of the coffee I've spilled on it

[Fredward]

I think it's threads like this that make people roll their eyes whenever 'equality' or 'representation' is mentioned. It also seems like a weird way to solve an issue, and I do think phallocentric language CAN be an issue or at least indicative of an issue. Use humankind instead of mankind? HuMANkind? Should we find a gender neutral word for human? Don't flee from a word and look to use another rather subvert a word so that it becomes more inclusive. Though, really, in this case I think it's already done isn't it? Do people really only imagine dudes when they say mankind? When you say 'men' when addressing a mixed sex army are you ignoring the women or using a gendered word gender neutrally? Can't you do that?

[Ashen Nedra]

As I went here to study Russian history (which is fascinating) I can say that's because of highly traditional society Russians have. Until 988 AC they were worshipping their own Gods and believed those are represented in daily, mundane things.

 

So, the local God of war shares authority over Power and Respect, and since most weapons and attributes of power are male.

Russian fertility Goddess is obviously female, and is represented in a lot of traditional agriculture terms and gear. Nature goes there too.

 

And so on.

As far as I know, the last country to abandon Paganism is what is today (more or less) Lituania, in late Middle Age. They even had an epic battle between Pagan Knights and Teutonic Knights from the Holy Roman Empire to decide the contest.  More or less again. Don't have time to check, sorry.

 

The Norman influence (Viking was more a hobby or professional occupation apparently) influenced the whole world at the time.  Thank you Bernard Cornwell and Wikipedia.

Modifié par Ashen Nedra, 21 janvier 2015 - 11:16 .

[KennethAFTopp]

I don't understand why people (men) reacted so bad to a simple idea... Oh! right...

 

Anyway, isn't that simple to change it. On the subtiltes probably it is, but reworking all the voices is a little expensive.

Perhaps Bioware can make a DLC with this in the near future and if you want it, buy it.

I think yours, Ziggy, is a good idea. 

Jonathan McIntosh is that you?

 

Sometimes it is ok to save a princess, sometimes it is ok for a princess to save herself, that's all I am gonna say.

[Ashen Nedra]

Wot.

 

Are you asking me to marry a friend of yours?

 

Is she a real life Sera? If so. Hell yes!

I'll look! I know of a hot Scottish language teacher right know.  She's in a serious relationship though. for now

[Octarin]

Popped back in to respond to this, so you didn't think I was ignoring you.  

 

I am in the LGBT community and I honestly have no idea what you're getting at here.   Yes, this is a concern for some members of the LGBT community, but it is far from just their providence or the providence of feminists.   I know some straight men that have posted in favor of wanting more gender neutral language in older threads, that didn't claim to be feminists in any way.  I've seen a lot of straight women ask for this too.  

 

That's why I think you're making parallels that aren't necessarily there; this isn't something that only the LGBT community or even women have expressed wanting in the past.   It's easy to think that if someone cares about these kinds of issues, that they must be LGBT or they must be a woman or that they must be a feminist.   Or that they must be anything.  All you have to do is "Be alive, play the game, be of reasonably sound-ish mind with free will, and have an internet connection with passable typing skills."  That's pretty much all it takes to get anyone interested in a social issue in relation to a DA game on the BSN (aka the forums.)

 

  If it seems like I'm giving you grief, I promise I'm not.  Thanks for trying to let me know where you were coming from.  I think we've got a minor miscommunication going on here.  

 

If you want to chat further, we can take this to PM.   I might be going to bed soon, but my door is open and I will get back to you if I don't tonight.  

 

Seeing as I never actually said anything about feminists, I have to ask. Where are you coming from? I really don't understand. My initial comment was that I agree and sympathize with the OP's comment but its extremely inappropriately timed and placed. So, I really don't understand what you're on about right here. 

[Octarin]

I know how to solve this... refer to everybody as "it"!

 

Wait.. no. That wouldn't work... it's too offensive.

 

@ Octarin: (sorry, that quote button doesn't seem to work for me)

 

As a member of the LGBT community, I am actually disgusted with the PC influence.

 

This is how I see things....

 

I don't have an issue with gay marriage, and equal rights and all of that jazz... in fact, I see it as a worthy goal.

 

But the way the typical PC/SJW crowd push it... it's "victim mentality".

 

I absolutely despite "victim mentality" and I think the LGBT community is losing its self-respect by going so far out there with "gimme my rights" which has translated to "Pity me, pity me. I'm gay/transgender so give me my rights."

 

For starters, with gay marriage... it seems to me like we, as people attracted to the same sex, are seeking society and government approval to love somebody. I love whoever the f*ck I want and couldn't give two tosses what society and especially government thinks. I think it's degrading to get on my knees and beg the state to recognise this when it's none of their business anyway...

Why not just have some private ceremony to celebrate love? Why do we have to have a government approved document and a ring?

 

I've experienced discrimination over my sexual preferences... so I know firsthand that it isn't nice. But I also think it's an individual matter, for the individual to deal with. If they don't like me because I prefer clam to sausage, then I don't like them simply because somebody who thinks that way can actually exist... and that's that. Whatever issues stem from that is, again, like I say, an individual matter for said individual to deal with.

 

I know for a fact that at the end of the day, PC agendas and propaganda (while having good intentions) go nowhere. People will continue to be... people. I am sorry but you cannot expect a diverse group of people in society to be at peace, especially when it's conflict that we get off to. We are not superior to animals... in fact, I could say that animals are smarter than people because they are not bound to ridiculous governments with all of their paperwork BS, don't require a "higher power" to dictate how to live -- it just comes naturally.

 

So yes, political correctness is a counter-productive cancer. I am so glad that I joined this forum and have had discussions with many others who see through the farce that it really is.

 

Want to know the ironic truth?

 

Political correctness is just another tool of power -- the very tool it fights against. Those who preach it are not better than the so called bigots themselves.

 

I am a bigot.

 

But hey -- least I'm an honourable one.

 

Couldn't agree more. At the end of the day it's nobody else's beeswax and the only thing all this PC is promoting is discrimination. Trying to get away from discrimination, scream discrimination at the drop of a hat, and that promotes further discrimination and even create discrimination where there isn't. PC doesn't promote equality or issues, it just makes some -certain minded- people feel good about themselves, while ignoring issues altogether. Just another Orlesian masquerade.

[NeitherNor]

Why not embrace BioWare's Canadian roots and install the game in French?

 

Humanité should be a comforting substitite for 'mankind'.

[Uccio]

As far as I know, the last country to abandon Paganism is what is today (more or less) Lituania, in late Middle Age. They even had an epic battle between Pagan Knights and Teutonic Knights from the Holy Roman Empire to decide the contest.  More or less again. Don't have time to check, sorry.

 

The Norman influence (Viking was more a hobby or professional occupation apparently) influenced the whole world at the time.  Thank you Bernard Cornwell and Wikipedia.

 

I think it was. Though pagan ways remained present in many many countries as soon as the church turned its back. Like here in Finland people were accused of pagan worshipping as as late 1550 where people were sentenced for woshipping the thunder god aka Perkele (modern day power and swear word).

[atlantico]

 

Dragon age is wonderfully inclusive of women in every aspect of the universe, which makes its consistent use of masculine pronouns all the more grating. Such terms no longer communicate a generic sense of “anyone”.

Yes it is a minor concern but the fix is just as minor! Using ‘people’ or ‘soldiers’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘men’; ‘humankind’ or ‘people’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘mankind’ etc.

 

refs

Studies show it effects your visualisation of what you’re told:

http://en.wikipedia....c_male_language

And there are heaps of inclusive alternatives to everything:

http://www.kentlaw.e...al_Language.htm

 

 

Grating. There are so many, many things grating in this game. Such as the SJW language and agenda being pushed in this game. This is essentially american SJW fantasyland now. 

 

So, you can imagine my surprise that someone on the dev team didn't think exactly as you do. But perhaps, they're more pandering than serious

[Rizilliant]

I cant believe this topic is still going.. Wow...

 

I have an idea for a new topic.. By comparison, this one should go 32+ pages..  "petition for the removal of the color pink"!  I find it offensive...........

[Giant ambush beetle]

I cant believe this topic is still going.. Wow...

 

I have an idea for a new topic.. By comparison, this one should go 32+ pages..  "petition for the removal of the color pink"!  I find it offensive...........

 

But we're all pink on the inside! 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I'm an English teacher, and it is currently considered to be sexist language in most if not all academic circles. In fact the textbook I teach out of has a section called "Sexist Language" and offers examples to students on how to avoid it.
 

 

 

The words "man" and "men" are not considered sexist in most academic circles. Those were the words he was referring to, and he elaborated in the rest of his post.

 

The problem with accusing people of being sexist for the language that they use is that it presumes judgment that only rarely exists. If I refer to someone as a man or a woman, it doesn't mean that I am attaching a value judgment to them on that basis. If someone then informs me that they prefer a different term, for whatever reason, I can accommodate them. There is no reason for there to be offense in either case.

 

If I refer to someone as a man or a woman, and they immediately inform me that I am being sexist, I'm not going to bother using whatever term they prefer, because there is no point. They have shut down any meaningful dialogue, and attributed motivations to me that aren't there.

 

I used to teach English as a second language, and no academic institution that I was ever a part of confused people learning English by informing them that the words "man" or "men" were sexist, and that they should avoid them.

[Ashen Nedra]

The words "man" and "men" are not considered sexist in most academic circles. Those were the words he was referring to, and he elaborated in the rest of his post.

 

The problem with accusing people of being sexist for the language that they use is that it presumes judgment that only rarely exists. If I refer to someone as a man or a woman, it doesn't mean that I am attaching a value judgment to them on that basis. If someone then informs me that they prefer a different term, for whatever reason, I can accommodate them. There is no reason for there to be offense in either case.

 

If I refer to someone as a man or a woman, and they immediately inform me that I am being sexist, I'm not going to bother using whatever term they prefer, because there is no point. They have shut down any meaningful dialogue, and attributed motivations to me that aren't there.

 

I used to teach English as a second language, and no academic institution that I was ever a part of confused people learning English by informing them that the words "man" or "men" were sexist, and that they should avoid them.

Don't worry it's starting.  Women Studies 101 is one of the most popular (aka as easy) course in the Ivy League nowadays.

[Laurelinde]

And while we're at it lets also change that evil oppressive word ''Woman'' into woperson instead.

Its easy guys!

 

Actually woman and man have distinct etymological backgrounds - the word woman is not derived from the word man.  It's just coincidence that they look similar.  So anyone arguing that the word woman is inherently sexist (or in favor of something like 'womyn') is not really paying attention.  That said, I've not seen anyone use 'womyn' in a serious context in...ever, possibly.  Maybe some of the really, really fringe feminist separatists, but they're an odd bunch.

 

It's a shame English never really developed more properly gender-neutral terms for people though; zie and hir and whatnot haven't really caught on in most circles so they're awkward to use, and I always find 'them' an annoying substitute since it's also the plural.  But hey, language evolves constantly, so who knows.  C'est la vie.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Don't worry it's starting.  Women Studies 101 is one of the most popular (aka as easy) course in the Ivy League nowadays.

 

That's tangential to my point.

 

Women's Studies means something different at nearly every institution. In many cases, the courses are quite interesting, and have no strong relationship to politics. In others, there are politics at work.

[LarryDavid]

 

Dragon age is wonderfully inclusive of women in every aspect of the universe, which makes its consistent use of masculine pronouns all the more grating. Such terms no longer communicate a generic sense of “anyone”.

Yes it is a minor concern but the fix is just as minor! Using ‘people’ or ‘soldiers’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘men’; ‘humankind’ or ‘people’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘mankind’ etc.

 

refs

Studies show it effects your visualisation of what you’re told:

http://en.wikipedia....c_male_language

And there are heaps of inclusive alternatives to everything:

http://www.kentlaw.e...al_Language.htm

 

 

 

Who could have thought that women are the victim of the way language is used . I wonder though which steps you have already taken, or a planning to take to make news programs gender-neutral? They are of course gender neutral when men are the victim of a crime. It is child soldiers and not boy soldiers, it is boko haram killing pupils, students and villagers and not boko haram going to schools, sending girls to their homes and killing the boys or boko haram invading villages, rounding up boys and men and killing them. It is of course boko haram kidnapping girls and women and it is 'refugees, mainly women and children, have to live in camps in wretched circumstances'. It are police officers, volunteers, citizens, passengers, ... whenever males do something heroic whereas gender is almost always mentioned the moment a female is involved; brave men and women, the first women to do, ... .

 

I don't really have a problem with this and I don't see why anyone should change 'its' usage of language in any way possible. It is telling however that people who are of a different opinion think that replacing 'mankind' by 'humankind' should take the highest priority.

 

This kind of selective observation is also one of the many reasons why people laugh with SJWs and feminists:

more male than female followers -> sexism because there are more males

more female than male followers -> sexism because the female followers are 'eye candy' for men

If a species is referred to by the name of the female animal, like cows, and the male animal has a unique name, like bull, it is sexism because the male is 'special'. If the species is referred to by the name of the male animal, like wolves, and the female animal has a unique name, like she-wolf or ******, it is sexism because male is the 'default'.

No matter the situation it always turns out that you are the victim.

[Ashen Nedra]

That's tangential to my point.

 

Women's Studies means something different at nearly every institution. In many cases, the courses are quite interesting, and have no strong relationship to politics. In others, there are politics at work.

That's what I'm fearing from a 'Gramsciesque' point of view.

[Ashen Nedra]

I think it was. Though pagan ways remained present in many many countries as soon as the church turned its back. Like here in Finland people were accused of pagan worshipping as as late 1550 where people were sentenced for woshipping the thunder god aka Perkele (modern day power and swear word).

Hey they still exist today in France and Italy, for example,...you know.

 

My mother and other relatives relatives, social Catholics or true believers, insisted that I (or more precisely, a piece of my hair) underwent a strange ceremony involving Latin, water, oil and the night of Christmas every time they got into their heads that I might be in trouble or 'cursed' by the envy of others...

 

Something called the Evil Eye, literally translated from Corsican (a kind of Italian to keep it simple)