222 réponses à ce sujet

[Kallas_br123]

 sad, sad post still going

[AppalachianApex]

1. Dragon's Dogma did it and did it well.

2. Actually not having to make male and female versions of each armor should mean we would have more, not fewer, options.

3. What would you have preferred, a frilly nightie for female inquisitors?

4. We're soldiers representing a military organization. And when you start putting female player characters in very feminine attire you start taking away the ability to role play. Best case scenario would be equal choices of clothing for both genders, but in the absence of that, all characters should have the same uniform.

 

1. This isn't Dragon's Dogma. And they didn't do it well.

2. And yet, we don't.

3. Of course not, but people everywhere are clamoring to get out of those godawful pajamas. Some people, male or female, would like to see a more masculine military uniform type option or more feminine elegant casual attire. Instead we got nice, totally safe, totally gender-neutral PJ's.

4. When you force players and characters of either gender into one specific, and again safely gender-neutral, outfit. That's when you take away the ability to role play. Again, as with the dreaded PJs, options are good.

 

I must re-iterate that I adore Bioware for being as inclusive as they are. But with Inquisition in particular, in trying to not offend *anyone,* it seems they've instead made a lot of people unhappy. Gender-neutral is a good thing, but not when it's the only option. And in many aspects of Inquisition, it's the only option.

[N7 Spectre525]

1. This isn't Dragon's Dogma. And they didn't do it well.

2. And yet, we don't.

3. Of course not, but people everywhere are clamoring to get out of those godawful pajamas. Some people, male or female, would like to see a more masculine military uniform type option or more feminine elegant casual attire. Instead we got nice, totally safe, totally gender-neutral PJ's.

4. When you force players and characters of either gender into one specific, and again safely gender-neutral, outfit. That's when you take away the ability to role play. Again, as with the dreaded PJs, options are good.

 

I must re-iterate that I adore Bioware for being as inclusive as they are. But with Inquisition in particular, in trying to not offend *anyone,* it seems they've instead made a lot of people unhappy. Gender-neutral is a good thing, but not when it's the only option. And in many aspects of Inquisition, it's the only option.

Dragons Dogma had a multitude of gender neutral hair and armor that looked good on male and female characters...wtf are you talking about. I think all this gender neutral armor is stupid, but if your going to do it then do it right and Dragons Dogma did it right.

[Dominic_910]

I play these games for a reason... because seeing video game character bewbs and arse, admiring the beauty of desire demons, the aesthetic visuals of blood and gore splatters, and fulfilling my inner most evil desires virtually is much more preferably than listening to some know-it-all authority figure dribble sh*t.

 

I miss desire demons and doing evil stuff

[Octarin]

Sorry to seek attention (pun) Octarin, but what do you think of my true story and its morals?

 

This a deep political (don't worry I don't belong to any political party and I'm not running for **** anytime soon), ethical and philosophical conviction of mine.

 

Political correctness is a cancer on our world. And it's very, very, very dangerous and counter-productive.

 

Sorry, I didn't see your reply there before. 

 

As to your question. I don't see a point to your story. Frankly because we all have such stories by the dozens. It doesn't really mean anything at all. I have such stories and opposite stories and stories about women getting harassed and raped in the workplace, and I believe that if you ask each and every single poster in here who's older than 22, you'll hear some different but relevant story. 

 

Equal rights means equal rights in every and all things. In the same way people are treated, whether this way is good or bad, regardless. In the opportunities offered, whether that means a woman or a man gets it, regardless. As far as wages are concerned, dress codes, skills, aptitude, and all that jazz. And this is why "feminists" and "PC" proponents and everyone who spazzes over equal rights needs to reconsider where the line is between equal rights and forcing the pendulum the opposite direction. 

 

But as always with pendulums, it will oscillate wildly from one end to the other before balancing in the middle somewhere, years from now. We still see the wild movement in our lifetime. It won't always be so.

 

None of which, of course, has any bearing or relevance whatsoever with a stupid silly console or PC game, which was more or less my point initially.

[AppalachianApex]

Dragons Dogma had a multitude of gender neutral hair and armor that looked good on male and female characters...wtf are you talking about. I think all this gender neutral armor is stupid, but if your going to do it then do it right and Dragons Dogma did it right.

...Yes. I know. Which is what I said.
*This* (being DA:I) Is not Dragon's Dogma. And *They* (being Bioware) didn't do it well.

[N7 Spectre525]

...Yes. I know. Which is what I said.
*This* (being DA:I) Is not Dragon's Dogma. And *They* (being Bioware) didn't do it well.

I misunderstund your post....I apologize.

[AppalachianApex]

I misunderstund your post....I apologize.

 

Happens to me all the time, no problem.

[BartDude52]

Something being gender-neutral isn't necessarily a bad thing, per se, but it does p*ss me off when it's forced upon you. If I'm playing as a female character, for example, I'd like some more feminine attire to choose from once in a while, God damn it! The Winter Palace was definitely a missed opportunity (why the hell can't I choose to wear a dress of some sort? It is a ball after all, is it not?).

[CuriousArtemis]

I must re-iterate that I adore Bioware for being as inclusive as they are. But with Inquisition in particular, in trying to not offend *anyone,* it seems they've instead made a lot of people unhappy. Gender-neutral is a good thing, but not when it's the only option. And in many aspects of Inquisition, it's the only option.

 

I understand your feeling here. I have the opposite feeling in that I'm a gender-neutral person, so I appreciate seeing that in the game. In this instance, when BioWare offers NO choice at all, one side is always going to be disappointed. The pajamas and military uniform are examples of going gender-neutral and upsetting fans of gendered clothing. And the "girly walk" and "ape walk" for the inquisitor are examples of going gendered and upsetting fans of gender-neutral movement.

 

This is why I think Dragon's Dogma is an excellent example of doing it right. They offered a vast variety of hairstyles, and they offered them to EVERY character, regardless of gender. DAI, on the other hand, offers a handful of hairstyles, most of which are bad. Dragon's Dogma offers FIVE different walking styles, from "ladylike" to "macho"; BioWare makes that choice FOR you, forcing men to walk in the "macho" style and women to walk in the "ladylike" style.

 

You hate it when games force gender neutrality on the player. I hate it when games force gendering on the player. We would both prefer to have a CHOICE.

 

It's still incorrect to say that BioWare opting for gender neutral clothing and offering the same hairstyles to each gender resulted directly in having BAD clothing and BAD hairstyles.

[CuriousArtemis]

Something being gender-neutral isn't necessarily a bad thing, per se, but it does p*ss me off when it's forced upon you. If I'm playing as a female character, for example, I'd like some more feminine attire to choose from once in a while, God damn it! The Winter Palace was definitely a missed opportunity (why the hell can't I choose to wear a dress of some sort? It is a ball after all, is it not?).

 

Then the complaint here is not about gender neutrality but about choice. If all female characters were FORCED to don a dress for the ball, that would be no less infuriating.

[Sarielle]

I can honestly say as a female gamer this bothers me zero percent, to the point I didn't even notice until it was pointed out. Having had it pointed out, it still doesn't bother me.

 

Add me to the list of sad, pants-wearing Winter Palace attendees, too. A certain witch's gorgeous dress made me all the more bitter.

[Draining Dragon]

Good grief...

[ruggly]

I can honestly say as a female gamer this bothers me zero percent, to the point I didn't even notice until it was pointed out. Having had it pointed out, it still doesn't bother me.

 

Same here.

[CuriousArtemis]

Okay, maybe this little example can put things into perspective. It's not my own example; I've seen it elsewhere.

 

A group of guys are your amigos. Add in a couple girls and they're still your amigos.

 

A group of girls are your amigas. Add in just one guy and suddenly they become amigos.

 

We can do the same with "mankind" versus "humankind" versus "womankind."

 

All men can be considered mankind. All men as well as women are also mankind.

 

All women are womankind. Yet all men and all women cannot be womankind.

 

 

It's allowing the masculine form to be the default. Many women will leap forward and say they are fine with it, that it doesn't offend them. No one can force a person to be offended. You can feel perfectly content with using gendered language that favors the other sex. A lot of people were fine with having to use special bathrooms and special water fountains and sit on certain parts of the bus, too. Now the disgusting indignities that people of color had to put up with in our parents' and grandparents' day does not even compare with using gendered language that favors males over females, but the comparison is purposefully extreme.

[CuriousArtemis]

 

Dragon age is wonderfully inclusive of women in every aspect of the universe, which makes its consistent use of masculine pronouns all the more grating. Such terms no longer communicate a generic sense of “anyone”.

Yes it is a minor concern but the fix is just as minor! Using ‘people’ or ‘soldiers’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘men’; ‘humankind’ or ‘people’ instead of ‘man’ or ‘mankind’ etc.

 

 

Just to remind everyone that this is the OP.

 

The audacity! The out-and-out man-hating! Filthy feminist scum! I have no doubt this OP burned all her bras and probably stole about sixteen different jobs from more qualified male candidates. Disgusting.

 

[Sarielle]

Being part of "mankind" doesn't offend me, but being told essentially I'm too ignorant to realize I'm being oppressed, does.

[CuriousArtemis]

Being part of "mankind" doesn't offend me, but being told essentially I'm too ignorant to realize I'm being oppressed, does.

 

That honestly is like saying you aren't offended after someone slaps you in the face, but you are offended when I say, Hey, someone just slapped you; why are you okay with that?

 

Try to stop feeling so offended and just think about the power of language. Think about the power structures within which we all live. Current society favors certain aspects, most notably male, white, straight, and economically stable. I personally fit into three of those groups. And I think it's important to dismantle those power structures that clearly favor me over others.

[Lord Surinen]

Then the complaint here is not about gender neutrality but about choice. If all female characters were FORCED to don a dress for the ball, that would be no less infuriating.

Women wearing dress for the ball? Perish the thought, strong womyn wear hazmat suits with shields on their back(did I just create a superheroine, well it gives a kick). Well, BioWare's agenda and laziness resulted in a quite progressive unisex outfit. I have expected much more from the Inquisitor's valet to be honest, wait, we don't have one.

 

Free of charge suggestion: obligatory rich dress for female inquisitors.

 

 

Reading this thread is quite a thing. Oppression Quest completionist at their best.

[DaemionMoadrin]

This thread made me run out of likes.

 

At first I wanted to reply to some rather outrageous posts but honestly, this is pointless. Some people are too set in their ways to change, it would just a waste of time and energy to argue with them.

 

I live with a bisexual and a lesbian woman whom I both love dearly and I am aware of most issues regarding gender, sexuality, feminism etc. There is a lot of work left to be done on both sides until we actually have equal rights/treatment. That does not mean we should treat everyone the same, because people are diverse and forcing everyone into the same narrow role makes things even worse.

 

Political correctness is needed, no question. But there can be too much of a good thing. Everything in moderation is a really good rule to live by.

 

Are women at a disadvantage in some area? Yes. So are men, though. It's not a contest to find out who's being oppressed more because that just makes all of us victims. Instead we need to work together to change society... because society is us. You need to start with yourself and work from there.

 

Extremism in any form is counter productive. I support feminism, I support equal rights and I fight against discrimination. I'm still a realist though. The "us vs. them" mentality is too deeply ingrained in our society to change overnight. Until we collectively realize that we're all in the same group, progress will be slow and often go in unwanted directions. Trying to please the hundreds of different interest groups is like herding cats. Someone will always be offended and complain.

Telling me that I am the problem just because I am male is insulting and offensive. The same is true for painting all women as helpless, fragile victims. It's all just so stupid...

 

 

Anyway...

Gendered language... haha. I'm not serious about this but... in German, chair and floor are male while wall, column and ceiling are female. Should I assume that because of that males are oppressed since people sit on them or walk all over them, while the females are the strong support of the entire structure and look down on everyone from above? So silly.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't issues within our languages and it's things like that which subconciously contribute to our behaviour towards women. It's just ... compared to all the other issues, this is not as important and very difficult to change by force. Language develops organically, it's not something you can force. We had at least two spelling reforms in Germany and it confused more people than it helped. Politicians.

 

 

[BioWareMod03]

This discussion in this thread has become to political and hostile. We are done here.