413 réponses à ce sujet

[Bocochoco]

Whilst I don't agree with Amelias views, I think some of her points about community backlash to dev interaction are well founded. Case in point - some users are reporting her to her workplace for her informal forum posts here. Why would any developer want to comment here in their spare time - unpaid - AND risk their job in the process? The answer is obvious, and probably reflects part of the reason why devs don't choose to interact with us often.We have a right to be annoyed at the state of the game - I am - but I think it's going too far to lead to crusade against any individual, let alone report them to their superiors for informal comments made on a public forum that they had every right to post and publicly vilify them.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it true.
Frankly you're annoying

[Storm_Changer]

Pay someone to do it. It is called public relations and any company that sells things to the general public should have one.

I entirely agree and have already suggested it in the past. But Amelia clearly isn't that person right now, she shouldn't be held accountable just because there is no-one else to hold accountable.

Whether you want to believe it or not, she is representing the company. I take it you've never sold commercial good of any sort or worked retail. It doesn't matter what you think, the people at the top will hold you accountable for things like this. That's how the world works.

She has stated she isn't. Legally she isn't. In retail ect you are PAID to be nice to customers, Amelia is not being paid to post on the forums. She is in no way endorsed by Bioware or EA, nor does she have any formal capacity or power to speak on their behalf or represent their views - which she has already stated herself.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it true.

I could say the same to you.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

I entirely agree and have already suggested it in the past. But Amelia clearly isn't that person right now, she shouldn't be held accountable just because there is no-one else to hold accountable.

She made a mistake, people should be held accountable when this happens.

 

People didn't really go over the edge until she came in here and shook the bee hive. It blew up after she posted, I would highly doubt she intended to do this, but hindsight is always 20/20 and we should learn from mistakes not sweep them under the rug.

[hitman1798]

Pay someone to do it. It is called public relations and any company that sells things to the general public should have one.

 

Amen.

[Suncowiam]

I agree that some of her responses weren't great. But she's human - no-one is perfect. She informally interacts with the community because she isn't paid to manage the community or give us updates. She can respond however she wants, there should be no repercussions for what she does in her own time. The bottom line is that she is officially at the same level as us when she posts on the forums - she only has to follow community guidelines [which she has] like the rest of us.



I personally think the game shouldn't be sold in this state. But I'm not defending the games buggy state. Attacking or singling out one of the only devs who even comment on these forums is not going to fix the game or increase developer interaction with the community - it will do the opposite.

 

I'm not saying it's all on Amelia.  The problem lies with BIOWARE and EA for not regulating their employees better.  If you have someone that is not held accountable for their actions, then current and future results are random.

[PurpGuy1]

I'm genuinely surprised the thread isn't locked yet. 

 

Locking this thread with no resolution would do more harm than good

[DrKilledbyDeath]

I entirely agree and have already suggested it in the past. But Amelia clearly isn't that person right now, she shouldn't be held accountable just because there is no-one else to hold accountable.


She has stated she isn't. Legally she isn't. In retail ect you are PAID to be nice to customers, Amelia is not being paid to post on the forums. She is in no way endorsed by Bioware or EA, nor does she have any formal capacity or power to speak on their behalf or represent their views - which she has already stated herself.


I could say the same to you.

Just because she says "Oh btw I don't represent Bioware" the entire world (except you) perceives her to be representing them. Perception is reality bro, and because of this she should watch what she says.

[Bocochoco]

Locking this thread with no resolution would do more harm than good

Took a screenshot of her response so if that happens I'll post the video and that response on every thread in my sig from now and to eternity
Also to FB DA page
Also to reddit
/v/
Ps4 avatar and about section
Etc

[hitman1798]

I entirely agree and have already suggested it in the past. But Amelia clearly isn't that person right now, she shouldn't be held accountable just because there is no-one else to hold accountable.


She has stated she isn't. Legally she isn't. In retail ect you are PAID to be nice to customers, Amelia is not being paid to post on the forums. She is in no way endorsed by Bioware or EA, nor does she have any formal capacity or power to speak on their behalf or represent their views - which she has already stated herself.

 

1) If she isn't responsible for talking to us...then don't show up.  Have the person that does respond to Penguin.  Either a community manager or her director.  Her response gave this thread gasoline it did not need.

 

2) Bioware logo to your name on the Bioware forum = representing the company.  No argument you can come up with will change my mind about that.

 

On a side note, I am shocked that 1, this thread hasn't been locked yet or 2, we haven't had someone else from Bioware end this thread with a apology and a promise to improve customer relations.  Longer this thread goes on, the more trouble/anger it will cause.

[Storm_Changer]

She made a mistake, people should be held accountable when this happens.
 
People didn't really go over the edge until she came in here and shook the bee hive. It blew up after she posted, I would highly doubt she intended to do this, but hindsight is always 20/20 and we should learn from mistakes not sweep them under the rug.

By that logic Penguin also made a mistake posting the video in the forum, not censoring out her name in his screen grabs and essentially provoking her into a response. She has no-one to apologize to, she has followed community guidelines. She can only be held accountable as a normal user - because that is her official status.

Locking this thread with no resolution would do more harm than good

This thread has already done more harm than good. What resolution - exactly - is this thread supposed to achieve? A witch hunt against a developer for making informal comments? That is all this has led to.

[Yumi]

For the guy saying she isn't legally representing the company, please leave legality to lawyers. Actual bar-certified ones, Like me. Because you are completely wrong and making yourself look stupid.

That being said, we are in a gray area of nonlegal impressions here, because she does post from her official account, but obviously she voices personal noncompany opinions often.

Unfortunately that is her issue, not ours.

If this was a court of law, simply posting from her company account on that company forum would be strongly construed as being statements made in her representative employment capacity, with a few possible exceptions.

It's just legal semantics though lol. Really starting to feel the "them vs us" mentality building in this thread, but that mentality has been simmering among a lot of forumers anyway.

Another "Yumi's 2 Cents". Thanks for reading.

PS this post is not intended as legal advice to anyone who reads this and does not create a client relationship of any kind. (Lol)

[Bocochoco]

By that logic Penguin also made a mistake posting the video in the forum, not censoring out her name in his screen grabs and essentially provoking her into a response. She has no-one to apologize to, she has followed community guidelines. She can only be held accountable as a normal user - because that is her official status.This thread has already done more harm than good. What resolution - exactly - is this thread supposed to achieve? A witch hunt against a developer for making informal comments? That is all this has led to.

Oh I don't know...maybe what we've been asking for? An apology and reassurance

[Storm_Changer]

Just because she says "Oh btw I don't represent Bioware" the entire world (except you) perceives her to be representing them. Perception is reality bro, and because of this she should watch what she says.

Doesn't matter what your perception is. She legally does not represent Bioware or EA when posting on the forums - that is a fact. That is what she has stated, and it is true.
 

1) If she isn't responsible for talking to us...then don't show up.  Have the person that does respond to Penguin.  Either a community manager or her director.  Her response gave this thread gasoline it did not need.
 
2) Bioware logo to your name on the Bioware forum = representing the company.  No argument you can come up with will change my mind about that.
 
On a side note, I am shocked that 1, this thread hasn't been locked yet or 2, we haven't had someone else from Bioware end this thread with a apology and a promise to improve customer relations.  Longer this thread goes on, the more trouble/anger it will cause.

1) Penguin posted screencaps with her name in the video, it isn't surprising she replied. There is no community manager. By your logic, no developer should ever post on the forums, which by this point most if not all of the devs seem to implicitly believe since they don't post here often, if at all.

2) Legally she isn't representing the company, there is no argument to be made. It is simply a fact.

I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked as well. But Bioware doesn't owe an apology - they have done nothing wrong. And Amelia as a forum user doesn't owe anyone an apology either - she posted within community guidelines.

[Waukeen25]

 
Official in so much that it says "Bioware" - but not legally representing Biowares views on the forums which Amelia has made perfectly clear. Again, keep playing dumb. The facts are on the table, even if you don't want to acknowledge them.

 

It is to be considered OFFICIAL when said person posts under their OFFICIAL BIOWARE account even when on their own time.  Plus she has posted things that would typically be posted during working hours if you look at the time stamps on things. It does not matter if these are during breaks because she is AT WORK regardless how you look at it.

 

How can her supervisor be spoken to if she APPARENTLY does it for free?

 

Because she is escalating the situation since she has no people skill and it posting on an OFFICIAL ACCOUNT?

 

but since I evidently need to point out the obvious: I am talking about when people call the QA team incompetent or say that BioWare doesn't care because they already have your money. Those kinds of statements don't do anything but insult others. Pointing out bugs or listing the reasons why you think a certain design decision doesn't work is a constructive thread and not part of the problem. I have never said they were a problem.

 

I will continue to call the QA/QC team incompetent until such time as they prove they are not.  There are bugs that they should have caught (the shader issue when patch 2 came out, the key issues with Destruction etc) that they did not.  So until they can prove they are not incompetent then I will continue to call them such.

[Yumi]

Doesn't matter what your perception is. She legally does not represent Bioware or EA when posting on the forums - that is a fact. That is what she has stated, and it is true.


1) Penguin posted screencaps with her name in the video, it isn't surprising she replied. There is no community manager. By your logic, no developer should ever post on the forums, which by this point most if not all of the devs seem to implicitly believe since they don't post here often, if at all.

2) Legally she isn't representing the company, there is no argument to be made. It is simply a fact.

I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked as well. But Bioware doesn't owe an apology - they have done nothing wrong. And Amelia as a forum user doesn't owe anyone an apology either - she posted within community guidelines.

Hey guy who is not a lawyer, stop making incorrect legal opinions.

Edit... I think I double posted... Stupid iphone

[Storm_Changer]

For the guy saying she isn't legally representing the company, please leave legality to lawyers. Actual bar-certified ones, Like me. Because you are completely wrong and making yourself look stupid.

That being said, we are in a gray area of nonlegal impressions here, because she does post from her official account, but obviously she voices personal noncompany opinions often.

She has outright stated her views are not representative of the company and she is not being paid or endorsed for posting on the forum. She stated that long before this thread kicked off and has always maintained it. I'm not wrong at all - they're the facts. She isn't representing the company when posting on the forums, nor has she ever claimed to.

It is to be considered OFFICIAL when said person posts under their OFFICIAL BIOWARE account even when on their own time.

So declares Waukeen25, lord of law. We don't decide when it is to be considered official. Bioware and Amelia herself do, she has clearly stated her opinions are not to be taken as representation of Bioware or EA.

[Yumi]

She has outright stated her views are not representative of the company and she is not being paid or endorsed for posting on the forum. She stated that long before this thread kicked off and has always maintained it. I'm not wrong at all - they're the facts. She isn't representing the company when posting on the forums, nor has she ever claimed to.

She can state whatever she wants, that doesn't mean the law will view her any differently. Again, please stop acting like you are a lawyer when a real one is explaining to you how it actually works

What you think is a fact an what the law views as a fact are two very different things.

Anyways, it's just a small point I'm trying To make. I'll take my leave for awhile and see what turn the thread takes next

[Bocochoco]

She has outright stated her views are not representative of the company and she is not being paid or endorsed for posting on the forum. She stated that long before this thread kicked off and has always maintained it. I'm not wrong at all - they're the facts. She isn't representing the company when posting on the forums, nor has she ever claimed to.

Are you just copy pasting your response at this poin?
You got you troll in now come back to the real world and
Know that at this point people are only seeing if you make a post that doesn't try to claim she doesn't represent BW.

[wolfhowwl]

It takes some mental gymnastics to think that someone who has identified themselves as a BioWare employee and is posting from their BioWare forum account isn't representing BioWare by their words and actions.

[Storm_Changer]

She can state whatever she wants, that doesn't mean the law will view her any differently. Again, please stop acting like you are a lawyer when a real one is explaining to you how it actually works

Forgive me for not trusting somebody on a gaming forum who is claiming to be a lawyer. It just so happens I'm arch-mage of the entire universe, so you should totally listen to me instead. You've already stated it's legally a gray area - which if true would suggest that no-one can claim to be correct. I'd be quite happy to accept that - as it means nobody would have a right to report Amelia or demand an apology either.

I actually agree, no one should be going after a lone employee who made some questionable comments on their free time. But, in the end its cause and effect. Bioware released a game that is unplayable( for some people or is playable but, with issues for others ) people are mad and you have a Bioware employee that makes what could be considered a snide comment lol, it's kind of funny how such a predictable outcome or reaction from the fans( some )never crossed her mind. Sadly, I'm left wondering if she knew this would happen and is now sitting back with a beer and a big smile on her face.

I agree it's cause and effect, it simply isn't fair on Amelia that she is getting the blame for the state of the game really, which you seem to agree with. Plot twist: I like to imagine Amelia is actually an evil mastermind who is just watching this thread and laughing to her developer friends about how she'll continue to post slightly snarky replies on threads to cause chaos. I prefer imagining that to the sadder alternative, anywho.

[Storm_Changer]

It takes some mental gymnastics to think that someone who has identified themselves as a BioWare employee and is posting from their BioWare forum account isn't representing BioWare by their words and actions.

It takes more mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that Amelia has already made it clear that her views are just her own. It takes more still to hold her accountable as some kind of community manager when she's literally at the same level as us when posting on these forums.

Are you just copy pasting your response at this poin?
You got you troll in now come back to the real world and
Know that at this point people are only seeing if you make a post that doesn't try to claim she doesn't represent BW.

People refuse to accept the fact, that doesn't make the fact not true. "People" will be watching me post forever then. I'm re-stating a fact, it isn't my fault if people refuse to accept it because it runs against their narrative that Amelia, EA and/or Bioware are literally the Anti-Christ that hate gamers, when they clearly aren't.

[UnearthlyCheese]

If you think the only factor in a games release state is the developers then you're ignoring the facts. Regardless, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from generating a witch-hunt and demanding a scapegoat for the games issues. That will not fix the game. Nor will it promote developer interaction - quite the opposite. There is quite the difference between asking for honest communication with developers and leading witch-hunts for individuals and trying to get them fired for daring to post on a thread.

I never thought the day would come where I'd be an apologist compared to everyone else. The irony.

"You're being toxic"

"No you're toxic"

**** outta here with that weak ish.


To repeat someone else in this thread...have you actually read the whole thread front to back, or are you just quoting and respondimg willy-nilly?

In your defence, I can see how my posts could come across as "witch-hunty"....but as I said in my first post in this thread, this situation, particularly the apparent attitude of the developers, is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. We've all been eating this same ass soup since online gaming became popular, and I'm at my whit's end.

Reread the thread, count the number of posts that start with "I don't usually post, but..." What do you think that's indicative of?

In regards to labelling me as a "witch-hunter". To be clear, I don't give a rats ass about any individual developer on a personal level. I wish them well, from one human to the next, but that's it.

Not looking for anyone's head in particular...my idea of "firing someone in the gaming industry" was simply an idea, a suggestion. One that perhaps could shake things up a bit.

But lets not play ourselves. We all know that no one is going to lose their job over this. It's 2015, and we're talking about video games....everyone is safe lol.

But even if someone, say Amelia, did lose their job because of this...who cares?? I just got news that 4 of my close friends lost their jobs in the oil patch due to cutbacks, and the recent drop in oil prices. That's something completely beyond their control, and it's something to lose sleep over. Someone losing their job because they contributed to creating a broken product, and was then unable to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner via social media and the interwebz is nothing to lose sleep over.

What I AM looking for is some humility, and some accountability. Someone, anyone, I don't care if it's the guy in the mail room...step up and explain how things got to where they are, and outline a detailed plan of who they plan to fix this. At this point, anything less is a slap in the face.

You claim that there are "other factors" which could contribute to the game being broken. Care to enlighten us with your insider knowledge, oh wise one? Or better yet, why not ask Bioware to explain things, instead of just speculating will feverishly sucking Andraste's sweet nips.

DA:I didn't just "happen" - it didn't arrive on Bioware's doorstep in a blanket covered basket.

Deny it all you want, but someone is ultimately responsible for the current state of affairs, whether it's the actual issues with the game itself, or the complete lack of comics ripen regarding said issues.

And again, I'm not looking for whoever is responsible just to put the blame on them, have them fired, whatever. Ultimately, that won't really solve anything.

Hate to be cliche, but to repeat the old phrase "the first step to fixing a problem is admitting that you have one." As things stand right now, it seems as though Bioware can't even acknowledge that there is a problem.

So, continue to fly that "this is no one's fault, no one's responsibility, it just happened" flag. Keep eating that ass soup you're being fed by the industry. Other than feeling sorry for you, I don't really have any beef.

But until the current paradigm shifts, I stand by what I've said, and I'm ok with any labels you want to throw at me. I have a label maker too.

[Yumi]

.... Re read the post I said nonlegal gray area of impressions.

I'm bar certified in the state of florida. License #91443. Feel free to look it up. I'm sure you will want photos to compare if it's me, but sorry I'm not that stupid.

Facts are only facts as defined by the lenses we view them from. Scientific facts are not always legal facts and vice versa.

You believing your fact is a legal fact does not make that true.

[Bocochoco]

She can state whatever she wants, that doesn't mean the law will view her any differently. Again, please stop acting like you are a lawyer when a real one is explaining to you how it actually works
What you think is a fact an what the law views as a fact are two very different things.
Anyways, it's just a small point I'm trying To make. I'll take my leave for awhile and see what turn the thread takes next

Question dude
Does this currently qualify for a class action as a consumer? I mean I know any group can sue but does the current state of this game meet any of the criteria to be taken up by a court if law?