413 réponses à ce sujet

[kalenath]

So have I, but when a representative of a multi billion dollar company is the one making these comments, its a little different to some 12 year old calling you names on the internet. 

 

There was a line crossed here that should not have been. This is their OFFICIAL FORUM for goodness sakes. She is an official employee. She is NOT a 12 year old in a schoolyard.

 

I dislike calling people out as well. I dislike reporting people for harassment. But what she did was wrong. Maybe just worded badly, but I can think of NOTHING else that would have made me angrier.

 

'Get another hobby' indeed.

[Angry_Elcor]

So have I, but when a representative of a multi billion dollar company is the one making these comments, its a little different to some 12 year old calling you names on the internet. 

 

It doesn't make any difference to me. But then, I'm angry most of the time, so I don't get wounded just because the tag under the name of one person responding to me is different from another.

[Apl_Juice]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, cognitive dissonance isn't a disorder, its a state of mind one feels when presented with two or more contradicting beliefs.

 

Second, I think the outcry from this thread is more than enough to tell Amelia she shouldn't speak to people like that. Remember that her presence here in the first place was something of a thrown bone and while that gives her no excuse, I think that should be taken into consideration.

 

Look at this from a non-Amelia dev perspective.

-Amelia screws up

-Amelia gets fired

 

What motive would anyone else at BioWare have to try to talk and relate to the forums like she attempted? Can't you just pm her and talk it over? In my opinion, 'going over someone's head' is a last resort, when there's no fixing things between the two. Maybe the internet has given me too thick a skin, but I think there's still plenty of room to fix things. Remember that, once upon a time, she was well meaning and did make a significant effort to solve individual problems; her post history proves that.

[veramis]

I made a complaint based on the fact that Amelia personally called me sneaky, a villain and expressing disappointment at my frustration, as well as trivializing psychological disorders (cognitive dissonance).

 

I'm not the kind of guy to nitpick when I understand what someone means to say, but since you want to make a formal complaint about it you should know that the way Amelia used the phrase cognitive dissonance was incorrect, and it is also not a psychological disorder as you suggest.

 

The term refers to the mental consideration of two contradictory ideas ans the resulting discomfort that people can sometimes feel, i.e. because Veramis feels uncomfortable having his convictions about the right way to apply thermal paste questioned he will reject all opposing opinions without giving them fair consideration so as to avoid the uncomfortable cognitive dissonance of comparing and contrasting two different methods of applying thermal paste.

[kalenath]

Amelia was one of the good ones, no question. She did good work.

 

Something changed.

 

This... was not expected. By me at the very least. Everyone has off days. We all do.

 

But this?

[hitman1798]

Second, I think the outcry from this thread is more than enough to tell Amelia she shouldn't speak to people like that. Remember that her presence here in the first place was something of a thrown bone and while that gives her no excuse, I think that should be taken into consideration.

 

Look at this from a non-Amelia dev perspective.

-Amelia screws up

-Amelia gets fired

 

What motive would anyone else at BioWare have to try to talk and relate to the forums like she attempted? Can't you just pm her and talk it over? In my opinion, 'going over someone's head' is a last resort, when there's no fixing things between the two. Maybe the internet has given me too thick a skin, but I think there's still plenty of room to fix things. Remember that, once upon a time, she was well meaning and did make a significant effort to solve individual problems; her post history proves that.

 

1)  You can't speak for her.  She could be reading this thinking we are all crazy.  In fact, she could be laughing about this to the other devs.  You don't know.

2)  From what I can tell from Amelia's post, they did have a convo over PM's using the reddit site.  She states this within her comment.

3)  "Once upon a time, she was well meaning"....when was the last time a developer came into this forum and tried to assist someone?  Most of the ones I have found were back in November.  That is where my anger/frustration is coming from.  No public support for a product.  Mocking comments/feedback only makes it worse.

[Cyonan]

So my understanding of this is that a BioWare employee thought they'd try and get some dialogue going with the community even though they didn't need to, and wasn't quite up to the task and said a number of things they shouldn't have and now people are calling for her head on a spike.

 

Regardless of reporting Amelia being "right" or "wrong", all it's probably going to do from our perspective is ensure that nobody else in the future tries to get some dialogue going with the community. At best we might get some PR team that is mostly just designed to make us feel better rather than tell us about what's going on.

 

and I don't blame them for it. If I worked for BioWare as a developer I doubt if I would post here either.

[kalenath]

3)  "Once upon a time, she was well meaning"....when was the last time a developer came into this forum and tried to assist someone?  Most of the ones I have found were back in November.  That is where my anger/frustration is coming from.  No public support for a product.  Mocking comments/feedback only makes it worse.

 

A friend of mine told me she helped him with some issues last week via PM.

 

For the record, I DO NOT want Amelia's head or her job taken from her. I want this fixed. I don't even need an apology. i just want SOME kind of fix.

[Cette]

Yeah I'm not sure being tone deaf and thin skinned is sufficient cause to treat a person like a pinata.  What's more going over their head is kind of a dick move.

I'm not saying you never try and **** with someone's bread and butter but it should always be a last resort.

[kalenath]

Yeah I'm not sure being tone deaf and thin skinned is sufficient cause to treat a person like a pinata.  What's more going over their head is kind of a dick move.

I'm not saying you never try and **** with someone's bread and butter but it should always be a last resort.

 

And if they do not give us any OTHER choices?

 

So far the official Bioware response is 'find another hobby'.

 

*facepalm*

[Apl_Juice]

1)  You can't speak for her.  She could be reading this thinking we are all crazy.  In fact, she could be laughing about this to the other devs.  You don't know.

2)  From what I can tell from Amelia's post, they did have a convo over PM's using the reddit site.  She states this within her comment.

3)  "Once upon a time, she was well meaning"....when was the last time a developer came into this forum and tried to assist someone?  Most of the ones I have found were back in November.  That is where my anger/frustration is coming from.  No public support for a product.  Mocking comments/feedback only makes it worse.

1. So on the offchance she isn't a human being with feelings, we should get her fired?

2. There's nothing that suggests they've personally spoken since this thread and her response went up.

3. Look at Amelia's post history. There's 4 pages of her either trying to be funny and 'hang with the guys', or helping individuals with individual problems, in which she often does actually fix the problem or at least identify it. Then there's the few posts where she says something she shouldn't have. Posting on BSN =/= 'support'. They're patching the game. They're promising a year of support. Its frustrating, but they are trying.

[hitman1798]

A friend of mine told me she helped him with some issues last week via PM.

 

For the record, I DO NOT want Amelia's head or her job taken from her. I want this fixed. I don't even need an apology. i just want SOME kind of fix.

 

Issues being solved with a PM?  To me, that sounds weird.   Why not list the fix so everyone can see?  I don't know the details on what problems your friend was having, but if it was a common thing, then she should have mentioned something to everyone.  Also, if was done on reddit, than it solves nothing.  Support should be done here. 

 

Agreed, I don't want her to be fired either, but there has to be some respect shown as well.  If she takes her time to fix issues, then that's awesome.  Bioware needs have a crew that take feedback negative/positive, present it to the developers, and then let him make the changes needed. 

[Cette]

I don't know man I'd say she's been pretty thoroughly shouted down for at least the last what 5 pages?  At least give it a few days for tempers to cool and to see if any movement happens from the official end on it's own.

I mean I realize people are taking the outrage in shifts so it never has to sleep but this all seems excessive.

[kalenath]

Issues being solved with a PM?  To me, that sounds weird.   Why not list the fix so everyone can see?  I don't know the details on what problems your friend was having, but if it was a common thing, then she should have mentioned something to everyone.  Also, if was done on reddit, than it solves nothing.  Support should be done here. 

 

Agreed, I don't want her to be fired either, but there has to be some respect shown as well.  If she takes her time to fix issues, then that's awesome.  Bioware needs have a crew that take feedback negative/positive, present it to the developers, and then let him make the changes needed. 

 

He didn't say WHAT was fixed, just that it was.

 

As for respect? Yes. This forum HAD that.

 

Now? I dunno. I hope it still does. We shall see.

[veramis]

So my understanding of this is that a BioWare employee thought they'd try and get some dialogue going with the community even though they didn't need to, and wasn't quite up to the task and said a number of things they shouldn't have and now people are calling for her head on a spike.

 

It's only Penguin who says he has filed a complaint with EA. And tbh he has every right to. You call it "try and get some dialogue going", but if you will stop drowning in hyperbole for a moment you'd see that Amelia's post was simply immature and pointless.

 

Regardless of reporting Amelia being "right" or "wrong", all it's probably going to do from our perspective is ensure that nobody else in the future tries to get some dialogue going with the community. At best we might get some PR team that is mostly just designed to make us feel better rather than tell us about what's going on.

 

 

How many bioware employees have posted incendiary comments like Amelia has in the past? I have never attacked any bioware employees' posts until now because of how wrong this particular one is. Sorry but if bioware employees wish to post the kind of things that she has been posting, they need to be censored by EA or BW for the sake of the company's reputation.

 

and I don't blame them for it. If I worked for BioWare as a developer I doubt if I would post here either.

 

 

I don't blame them for not wanting to post. There is no community manager and it is not their job to post. What I do expect them to do is to fix their game, or at least roll back until they can fix their game, neither of which they have done when they have had ample of time to do them.

 

So to bioware employees, all I have to say to you is I don't care about whether or not you talk and I would just ignore your posts anyway because its all lies, so just fix your damn game if you want to salvage what is left of your player base.

[hitman1798]

So my understanding of this is that a BioWare employee thought they'd try and get some dialogue going with the community even though they didn't need to, and wasn't quite up to the task and said a number of things they shouldn't have and now people are calling for her head on a spike.

 

Regardless of reporting Amelia being "right" or "wrong", all it's probably going to do from our perspective is ensure that nobody else in the future tries to get some dialogue going with the community. At best we might get some PR team that is mostly just designed to make us feel better rather than tell us about what's going on.

 

and I don't blame them for it. If I worked for BioWare as a developer I doubt if I would post here either.

 

Problem with your argument is the forums were much more "toxic" during the ME3MP days.  Seeing people complain about weapon changes was amusing for me, probably hellish for those working at Bioware.  That staff took the feedback and worked with it.  They did their jobs and earned a ton of respect from me. 

 

So let me get this straight, if you owned/worked for a company, you wouldn't want to get feedback and have open dialogue with your fans/customers? 

 

1. So on the offchance she isn't a human being with feelings, we should get her fired?

2. There's nothing that suggests they've personally spoken since this thread and her response went up.

3. Look at Amelia's post history. There's 4 pages of her either trying to be funny and 'hang with the guys', or helping individuals with individual problems, in which she often does actually fix the problem or at least identify it. Then there's the few posts where she says something she shouldn't have. Posting on BSN =/= 'support'. They're patching the game. They're promising a year of support. Its frustrating, but they are trying.

 

1) Again, I don't want anyone fired. I am not going to EA to have someone fired.  But I was just pointing out that you don't know what she is actually thinking.

 

2) True, but they spoke before the video was created and that solved nothing.  In fact, a video was then created and now we are here.

 

3)  I did not look at her post history.  I looked at other threads on the Bioware forums that were recent and nothing was responded to by a Bioware Employee.

[Suledin]

The dude is right. There're too many bugs. It's even worse on consoles. The last patch was in December.

[Apl_Juice]

Sorry for even bringing that up; it was an honest jump to conclusions: No, I don't think anyone is trying to get anyone fired.

 

However, just realize that outcome is definitely within the realm of possibility. Penguin has a lot of sway with the community, and I was just afraid that it might snowball into an inordinate response from us. To no one in particular: please give it a few days before you do anything, cause this whole debacle can have very real consequences.

 

Also, I reeeeally don't want this to turn into a "sides" thing. Its a good, worthwhile discussion though. With that said:

 

 

1) Again, I don't want anyone fired. I am not going to EA to have someone fired.  But I was just pointing out that you don't know what she is actually thinking.

 

2) True, but they spoke before the video was created and that solved nothing.  In fact, a video was then created and now we are here.

 

3)  I did not look at her post history.  I looked at other threads on the Bioware forums that were recent and nothing was responded to by a Bioware Employee.

To be frank, I think the video was unnecessary. In the end, it didn't say much more than any of the threads here. which is "I'm upset."

 

Everyone's upset at this point.

 

Amelia has been open enough to make dialog possible, at least until recently. I hope that bridge isn't burned already. If you have a minute, look at her post history. Intent aside (and her intent has been good since launch) she actually has helped people on the forum. What I'm trying to get across is that no one has to stick their neck out in that way. The devs could silently work on the game, and they don't. I'd like for that to continue.

[Rhaine]

People care too much, take a break from the game like ive done for the last month instead of whining constantly because it solves nothing.

 

Sure im worried that bioware released a game with tons of bugs and are demonstrating an inability to fix lots of those bugs  but what can you do? They will either eventually turn things round or they will become a less respected developer but nothing we say here is going to change that.

 

As people are aware lots of game recently have released totally filled with bugs, seems like a bad direction the whole industry is going lately.

[Rolenka]

Consider that you're burning a bridge before you file a complaint. By now, Amelia knows she done f***"d up. There's no reason to threaten her job. If you do, that just sets a precedent for every BioWare employee to just never, ever talk to the playerbase.

 

 

Plus... I mean, who hasn't been in trouble at work? It's an awful, terrible feeling.

 

I wouldn't wish that on someone unless they were so negligent and grossly incompetent, they probably wouldn't need my help getting fired.

 

Also, employers keep track of every time an employee screws up in case they have to fire them someday and there is a dispute about why. Even if all a complaint does is get her in trouble -- which, as I've said, is bad enough -- it builds a case to fire her later if something else happens. And that's something I don't wish on anyone.

[Glaso]

I really don't care about her being rude or snarky to some ahole on the forum but when Bioware's employees keep thinking they can lie to and demean their loyal fans on every occasion they get, i take issue with it and make it known.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Sorry for even bringing that up; it was an honest jump to conclusions: No, I don't think anyone is trying to get anyone fired.

 

However, just realize that outcome is definitely within the realm of possibility. Penguin has a lot of sway with the community, and I was just afraid that it might snowball into an inordinate response from us. To no one in particular: please give it a few days before you do anything, cause this whole debacle can have very real consequences.

 

Also, I reeeeally don't want this to turn into a "sides" thing. Its a good, worthwhile discussion though. With that said:

 

 

To be frank, I think the video was unnecessary. In the end, it didn't say much more than any of the threads here. which is "I'm upset."

 

Everyone's upset at this point.

 

Amelia has been open enough to make dialog possible, at least until recently. I hope that bridge isn't burned already. If you have a minute, look at her post history. Intent aside (and her intent has been good since launch) she actually has helped people on the forum. What I'm trying to get across is that no one has to stick their neck out in that way. The devs could silently work on the game, and they don't. I'd like for that to continue.

 

Id also like to stress that im not trying to get anyone fired. I want some kind of accountability. 

 

I submitted a complaint because I felt like a bioware employee had insulted me on a personal level. The same thing would happen if a cashier at my local supermarket called me names.

 

Yes, I am upset that my favorite game is a buggy mess and I cant play it. Ive invested a lot of time into Biowares games and the community surrounding them so to be insulted after all that and called a 'villain' is a huge slap in the face.  

[Glaso]

People care too much, take a break from the game like ive done for the last month instead of whining constantly because it solves nothing.

 

I can't play the game since the release, is it being whiny to ask them to fix the damn product i paid money for?

[Cette]

The same thing would happen if a cashier at my local supermarket called me names.

 

 

Oh you're one of THOSE.

[Angry_Elcor]

Ive invested a lot of time into Biowares games and the community surrounding them so to be insulted after all that and called a 'villain' is a huge slap in the face.  

 

So in addition to a martyr complex, you also lack the self awareness to realize that you insulted BioWare employees enough to provoke the one that you specifically called out into saying, "You so quickly turned from hero to villain. I'm sorry that you didn't get what you wanted from me."

 

Wow. That's too sad to even come up with a joke for it. I'm out. Whinge away.