256 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

Personally, I abhor it. It makes no sense for someone who's a Tevinter to even fancy a Qunari. I would have found it far more interesting if Dorian absolutely despised Iron Bull similar in a way in how Vivienne really dislikes Cole.

 

I also can't help but feel that this was put in there because he is a gay character and he's supposed to represent one of those kinds of people (the actual words escape me right now, I'm mainly relying on a feeling to convey my thoughts).

 

It just feels wrong to me and doesn't make kind of sense. I can't even see Dorian with a non-human, really.

My advice, if it doesn't happen in your game then it never happened period. So just make sure it never happens. If you're going to romance someone other than Dorian then don't recruit IB. That's what I'm doing on my elf female. IB is heading to Seheron to report his failed mission.

[Sui Causa]

Just like I've said. Ridiculous argument. 

No more ridiculous then the notion that Dorian is an abused little flower that is only chasing after Iron Bull because he's being abused/manipulated/controlled in some way.

[Incantrix]

Oh brother, not this thread again. People claim IB is disrespectful towards Dorian and yet they have an antagonistic relationship. They tease each other and get dirty.

 

I wonder though, are these same people against the Rival-mances from DA2, because those are just as "disrespectful" but of course, it's because Dorian seems to be a pure white darling who they think is the victim of an abusive relationship.  

 

No. I love Dorian and I understand that he's a noble. He knows what he wants and if the relationship didn't please him, he'd go else where. Like all people who are accustomed to getting what they want any time they want. 

 

So please, stop the "abusive relationship" thing. There's no true instance of a "real" abusive relationship in any DA game. 

[Ryzaki]

Just like I've said. Ridiculous argument. 

 

You're free to believe so. I don't. Thankfully he's entirely optional (as is Bull) so there's a very easy way to avoid the romance if you're not inclined to see it.

[Vita Brevis]

No more ridiculous then the notion that Dorian is an abused little flower that is only chasing after Iron Bull because he's being abused/manipulated/controlled in some way.

No, actually far more. You don't have to be a "delicate flower" to not like your partner's jokes about what you're doing in bed and so on. It's pretty much ok to say anything involving someone if that someone is ok with that. Not this case tho. 

I know Bull is not some mindless animal, far from it actually, but sometimes I wish he could find off-button. Cause seriously. That's not even funny. That's just awkward at best. I don't understand why Hawke shuts up Isabella and Anders who were saying far more innocent stuff, that's the time I would like to have an option to say "I so don't need to know this about either of you". Cause it's just bragging and nothing more. 

 

You're free to believe so. I don't. Thankfully he's entirely optional (as is Bull) so there's a very easy way to avoid the romance if you're not inclined to see it.

Lol, with the party banter *bug* the only way I can see anything romance-banter-related is youtube. 

But that's not the point.

[Sui Causa]

Oh brother, not this thread again. People claim IB is disrespectful towards Dorian and yet they have an antagonistic relationship. They tease each other and get dirty.

 

I wonder though, are these same people against the Rival-mances from DA2, because those are just as "disrespectful" but of course, it's because Dorian seems to be a pure white darling who they think is the victim of an abusive relationship.  

 

No. I love Dorian and I understand that he's a noble. He knows what he wants and if the relationship didn't please him, he'd go else where. Like all people who are accustomed to getting what they want any time they want. 

 

So please, stop the "abusive relationship" thing. There's no true instance of a "real" abusive relationship in any DA game. 

I would have to disagree with you sir!

 

Branka and Hespith would definitely qualify as abusive I think.

 

>.>

[Colonelkillabee]

..........Since when has love or sexual attraction ever truly made rational sense lol

What's hard to get about it? Man fancies woman, vice versa. Sex is had, baby is made. Humanity lives on.

 

Makes perfect rational sense to me.

[Sui Causa]

No, actually far more. You don't have to be a "delicate flower" to not like your partner's jokes about what you're doing in bed and so on. It's pretty much ok to say anything involving someone if that someone is ok with that. Not this case tho. 

I know Bull is not some mindless animal, far from it actually, but sometimes I wish he could find off-button. Cause seriously. That's not even funny. That's just awkward at best.

Their issues are as much on Dorian as they are on Iron Bull. Their dynamic is not one sided. If Dorian is so riddled by "the shame" of having a qunari lover, then he needs to stop dicking with Bull and move on, instead of treating Bull like his only use is in the bedroom and how dare he bring it up in public. (When the Inquisitor's relationship is forever brought up by whoever they happen to be romancing etc.) Bull doesn't deserve being treated like meat, either.

 

A man like Bull is not going to be someone's dirty little secret, any more than someone like Dorian is going to admit that he enjoys slumming it when he sleeps with Bull. That is the problem with their relationship, nothing else.

 

They'll work that out in time, probably.

[Ryzaki]

No, actually far more. You don't have to be a "delicate flower" to not like your partner's jokes about what you're doing in bed and so on. It's pretty much ok to say anything involving someone if that someone is ok with that. Not this case tho. 

I know Bull is not some mindless animal, far from it actually, but sometimes I wish he could find off-button. Cause seriously. That's not even funny. That's just awkward at best. I don't understand why Hawke shuts up Isabella and Anders who were saying far more innocent stuff, that's the time I would like to have an option to say "I so don't need to know this about either of you". Cause it's just bragging and nothing more. 

 

Lol, with the party banter *bug* the only way I can see anything romance-banter-related is youtube. 

But that's not the point.

 

Wait joking about what you do in bed is abuse now? You say that like Bull's saying it with the intention of belittling Dorian and making him feel bad about himself. Also you think that was Bull being crude then? You put him in a party with Sera. You'll see crude. "She's turning purple!"

 

The point is we have different views on the romance. I doubt they can be reconciled.

 

 

Their issues are as much on Dorian as they are on Iron Bull. Their dynamic is not one sided. If Dorian is so riddled by "the shame" of having a qunari lover, then he needs to stop dicking with Bull and move on, instead of treating Bull like his only use is in the bedroom and how dare he bring it up in public. (When the Inquisitor's relationship is forever brought up by whoever they happen to be romancing etc.) Bull doesn't deserve being treated like meat, either.

 

Very much so. The whole "Discretion isn't your thing is it?" (ignoring that he doesn't even follow this rule with the Inquisitor) and calling Bull a savage does nothing for my opinion of him.

[AtreiyaN7]

They're happy together in their own way, or so it seems - regardless of how their relationship kicks off. And Dorian strikes me as being a smart, intelligent man who wouldn't enter into a long-term relationship with someone who is abusive or whom he truly detests. The Bull-Inquisitor relationship isn't abusive, and Bull's assorted other relationships/flings don't seem to be abusive.

Therefore, I rather doubt that the Bull-Dorian relationship is abusive. I think what I've heard about their exchanges seems to amount to teasing more than anything - like Bull knows it's going to get Dorian's goat when he does that stuff. Now I've been seeing so many complaints about all the LIs being monsters for perceived failings/flaws that user x hates, and I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Were I not pretty much smitten with one particular LI, I might have ridden the Bull at some point. He's never seemed abusive to me. He just seems like a chill and interesting guy.

[Vita Brevis]

Wait joking about what you do in bed is abuse now? 

Where the f have you seen the word abuse in my posts?

 

Also you think that was Bull being crude? You put him in a party with Sera. You'll see crude.

I always do that. I like crude. But I also don't like seeing someone being stressed about rude jokes, and being involved in those jokes. Those are a very different things. Because it's only funny if everyone is laughing, especially the ones involved.

[Ryzaki]

Where the f have you seen the word abuse in my posts?

 

I always do that. I like crude. But I also don't like seeing someone being stressed about rude jokes, and stressed  being involved in those jokes. Those are a very different things. Because it's only funny if everyone is laughing.

 

Considering that's kind of the discussion I assumed. It was wrong then I apologize.

 

And you saw Dorian as being stressed? Because you can actually see Dorian stressed with Cole. That was a very different reaction than the exasperated sighs or energetic swearing he does with Bull.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Short answer is no, you're not the only one.

 

Long answer is that it's been talked about to death and it's pretty pointless to discuss because generally people can't stick to just talking about their relationship dynamics and it becomes just a general airing of grievances against Bull or against Dorian. Then their respective fan bases get offended and retaliate. It's ugly and negative, just like the relationship in question.

 

But anyway, the whole thing is pretty unpopular here for multiple reasons. You're not going to find a lot of "DoriBull" shippers like you will on Tumblr.

[Vita Brevis]

Considering that's kind of the discussion I assumed. It was wrong then I apologize.

 

And you saw Dorian as being stressed? Because you can actually see Dorian stressed with Cole. That was a very different reaction than the exasperated sighs he does with Bull.

Actually, yes. His discomfort is very apparent. It's even more apparent with Cole because Cole presses more and pulls more. I'd even say that's when it all made me uncomfortable,after I saw the banter with Cole because his reaction was very similar though not so clear.

[Ryzaki]

Actually, yes. His discomfort is very apparent. It's even more apparent with Cole because Cole presses more and pulls more. I'd even say that's when it all made me uncomfortable,after I saw the banter with Cole because his reaction was very similar though not so clear.

 

His reaction is not similar to me. But I guess again this is not something that's going to be reconciled. The only one I got that vibe from was the Conquer you one and Bull backs off as soon as Dorian's all "No. I was not."

 

But regardless I'm not inclined to see the ship favorably anyway considering Dorian nonchalantly calling Bull exactly what he fears to become I do see it as toxic and Bull really deserves better. (And so does Cullen which is why the Dorian/Cullen ship repulses me.)

[Catwall]

 

People can judge this as they see fit, but they seem genuinely happy to me. As genuinely happy as two fictional characters can be, that is.

[Vita Brevis]

Similar as "uncomfortable". But I get it most people think it's all in "good fun".

[Ryzaki]

When that same character decides to offer to draw diagrams when in a relationship with the Inquisitor (since discretion is apparently all the rage until they're expected to do it.) yeah I feel it's in "good fun"

[Vita Brevis]

You know, I hate to go through this again I'll just say this and will be done - yes, that's the other reason I and many other people don't like it. Because with the Inq he jokes every time anyone mention their romance, always laughing. 

With the Bull he's far more reserved and all you got is "uh.. well... ugh". Pretty much does that disgusted noise of his. 

I also have to point out that the Bull aslo treats the Inq differently. He doesn't joke about their sex life and when Cole brings it up all he says "and how does he feel about you're saying it out loud" and that's it. That's all. No dirty jokes in public, no topping from the bottom jokes, nothing. With the other companions he once asks if Cass turns on while killing the dragon but later he apologies and pretty much drops the topic.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

When that same character decides to offer to draw diagrams when in a relationship with the Inquisitor (since discretion is apparently all the rage until they're expected to do it.) yeah I feel it's in "good fun"

Well, when the Inquisitor says he's uncomfortable with that and Dorian ignores him and continues to do it anyway, perhaps you'll have a leg to stand on. Discretion isn't the issue, respecting your partner's boundaries is. But then again, your whole "repulsed" comment is exactly what I was talking about earlier.

[Ryzaki]

You know, I hate to go through this again I'll just say this and will be done - yes, that's the other reason I and many other people don't like it. Because with the Inq he jokes every time anyone mention their romance, always laughing. 

With the Bull he's far more reserved and all you got is "uh.. well... ugh". Pretty much does that disgusted noise of his. 

I also have to point out that the Bull aslo treats the Inq differently. He doesn't joke about their sex life and when Cole brings it up all he says "and how does he feel about you're saying it out loud" and that's it. That's all. No dirty jokes in public, no topping from the bottom jokes, nothing. With the other companions he once asks if Cass turns on while killing the dragon but later he apologies and pretty much drops the topic.

 

Yeah and what if the Inq is the one who wants to keep it discrete?

 

This isn't true. He doesn't joke about it with Varric (probably because Varric was going to write a book about it). He jokes about it with Sera and asks Cass can he borrow her armor. Hell the Inquisitor can even call him on it and he's all "What? She asked!"

 

So yeah.

 

 

Well, when the Inquisitor says he's uncomfortable with that and Dorian ignores him and continues to do it anyway, perhaps you'll have a leg to stand on. Discretion isn't the issue, respecting your partner's boundaries is. But then again, your whole "repulsed" comment is exactly what I was talking about earlier.

 

Considering that happened once (in the Varric conversation. That's the only time Dorian actually tells Bull to stop and it was wrong of Bull to keep going) the calling it abusive (because I fully admit the relationship is unhealthy and terrible) based off that is stretching. Ugh really where is that huge analysis of the banter tumblr post. I freaking bookmarked it.

 

I assume we're talking about this banter?

 

•     Varric: So Bull, you and Dorian?
•     Iron Bull: Mm-hmm.
•     Varric: Two worlds tearing them apart, Tevinter and Qunari, with only love to keep them together.
•     Dorian: I don’t see how this is even remotely your business, Varric.
•     Iron Bull: Could you make it sound angrier? Love is a bit soft.
•     Dorian: Please stop helping the dwarf.
•     Varric: How about passion?
•     Iron Bull: Yeah, that’s better. Love is all starlight and gentle blushes. Passion leaves your fingers sore from clawing the sheets.
•     Dorian: You could at least have had the courtesy to use the bedposts.
•     Iron Bull: Hey, don’t top from the bottom.
•     Varric: (Laughs.) Passion it is, then.
   

Yep all that shame and abuse there. SO much. So very very much.

[Aolbain]

Oh God, not this again...

[Sui Causa]

The Inquisitor also has the opportunity to be proud of Iron Bull, and say good things about him.

 

Dorian dehumanizes Iron Bull. He clearly is fine with approaching Iron Bull for sex, since he's the one going to Bull for it. But he's too ashamed of Bull to admit they're having a thing? That's nice. Way to treat Bull like your dirty little secret, like what you get off on is shameful and you are so totally above the person who you're having sex with, how dare you flaunt that in the light of day, but by the way I'll be in your rooms later for more.

 

Yeaaaaah. I think Bull has every right to bring it up. He doesn't deserve to be used and have to keep quiet about it. He deserves to be acknowledged. Dorian tried to sweep it under the rug, too above the savage qunari he's totally okay with screwing, Bull refused.

 

Unfortunately, that's all we really get to see of their relationship. But because they're still together by the end of it, you can imagine that they're working it out.

[KefRayBa]

My only beef with this is that Iron Bull is Dorian's only default choice if he wasn't romanced by the Inquisitor.  As I played as gay Inquisitor in both my games, I felt bad for Dorian since I romance Iron Bull in the second and deprive him of romance option. 

 

I would love to have my Inquisitor romance them both and became a menage relationship .