256 réponses à ce sujet

[Sui Causa]

I agree with this but not the rest mostly because I'm not trying to get into any RL debates here. Because that'll just get the thread closed.

Yus. You're right and I need to be less mad. I cut that part out. >_>

[crimzontearz]

Yesss, I would still be so much more happy with him being more blatant about the sexytimes, buuuut I will take what I can get.

For me it was Cole's second romantic banter. The first one was about the safe word, katoh. The second one was the "He submits, but you serve." Bull says "If you take the mystery out it isn't as hot." You have two options, one is "Bull? Yes it is." And then Bull is like ".....hnnngh in that case, carry on kid!" But you can also say "That's actually how it works?"

And Bull's response is amazing. He gets all blustery like "PFFFFT, WHAT DOES COLE KNOW ABOUT THIS? When we're alone, I'm going to pin you down and do things to you your body won't believe!"

And Cole is like "...but but...that's not..." And Iron Bull is like "*AHEM*" To scare him into shutting up. ♥

It was an adorable and hilarious exchange, I loved it. ;_;

he does not scare him


He makes him understand

[Sui Causa]

he does not scare him


He makes him understand

[Catwall]

If Dorian was ashamed of Bull because Bull was black, or transgendered, or mentally handicapped, or something like that, then people would care.

 

But Bull is a large, intelligent, sexually dominant man. He is only capable of being demonized, he is not given the chance to be good, despite all the examples of him in the game being good.

 

Therefore Bull takes all the blame, all the hate, and all the villianizing, while Dorian is painted as a delicate flower who's the victim of an evil abuser.

 

Right.

 

They're both grown men. They're both responsible for their own decisions. They work out their problems together. They do it all without holding the Inquisitor's hand the entire time. This is too much for people to understand.

I generally agree. I've seen similar and far more harmful relationship dynamics in yaoi, but no one says a damn thing, because it's two pretty boys. *eyeroll*

[Ryzaki]

Yus. You're right and I need to be less mad. I cut that part out. >_>

 

Yeah I know the double standards are painful but eh.

 

Hopefully a dlc at least has us able to call Dorian out on his behavior but I doubt it. Oh well since he's too good for Bull he can content himself with his hands in my games

[crimzontearz]

What??

[Colonelkillabee]

The only reason I dislike this pairing is because Dorian has better taste than that.

[Hazegurl]

The only reason I dislike this pairing is because Dorian has better taste than that.

You know, this actually sums up the OP's entire point.

[Ryzaki]

The only reason I dislike this pairing is because Dorian has better taste than that.

 

Heh that's a similar reason I dislike Cullen/Dorian. Cullen really has better taste

[In Exile]

I really dislike the tenor the comments the IB makes about Dorian.

[Armali]

Just for the record, I had no idea this had been discussed at such lengths as I hardly get on BSN. I was rather shocked to see this thread have over two hundred replies.

 

 

You know, this actually sums up the OP's entire point.

 

Partly, but prior to my posting of this thread, I was curious about IB's romance as I was thinking of making a Qunari character (despite me hating the race) to see what it would be like and I was disgusted by the way he treated the Inquisitor.

 

A user here messaged me about this thread who had similar feelings about it but had more of a reason to it. Basically it showed how IB manipulates (to put it bluntly, mentally rapes) Dorian into a 'relationship'. Then I read about how he shames Dorian and treats him terribly. The romance Dorian has with the Inquisitor is considerably different, to say the least.

 

At the most, I can say I have a better or more fully developed reason for loathing this 'pairing'.

[Ryzaki]

Just for the record, I had no idea this had been discussed at such lengths as I hardly get on BSN. I was rather shocked to see this thread have over two hundred replies.

 

 

 

Partly, but prior to my posting of this thread, I was curious about IB's romance as I was thinking of making a Qunari character (despite me hating the race) to see what it would be like and I was disgusted by the way he treated the Inquisitor.

 

A user here messaged me about this thread who had similar feelings about it but had more of a reason to it. Basically it showed how IB manipulates (to put it bluntly, mentally rapes) Dorian into a 'relationship'. Then I read about how he shames Dorian and treats him terribly. The romance Dorian has with the Inquisitor is considerably different, to say the least.

 

At the most, I can say I have a better or more fully developed reason for loathing this 'pairing'.

 

Ooh Bull manipulates Dorian into a relationship? (Mentally rapes him?)

 

Do tell how. I'd love to hear it. Just to see all the pretzel bending.

[Hellion Rex]

 

A user here messaged me about this thread who had similar feelings about it but had more of a reason to it. Basically it showed how IB manipulates (to put it bluntly, mentally rapes) Dorian into a 'relationship'. Then I read about how he shames Dorian and treats him terribly. The romance Dorian has with the Inquisitor is considerably different, to say the least.

 

.

What the living hell.......O__________O

 

That someone thinks that about Bull literally makes me sick. I...I don't know what to say to that. "Mentally rapes".....

 

That someone thinks that about Bull just really kinda hurts, cause I don't think that's even remotely true. Their relationship might be unhealthy, but no one here has any sufficient proof to claim "mental rape". Hell, the romance banter b/t Bull and Dor maybe only even had 3 or 4 actual dialogues.

[Ryzaki]

What the living hell.......O__________O

 

That someone thinks that about Bull literally makes me sick. I...I don't know what to say to that. "Mentally rapes".....

 

That someone thinks that about Bull just really kinda hurts, cause I don't think that's even remotely true.

 

It's not true. It's some one desperate to make Dorian into a victim and Bull an abuser because how dare they make bad decisions without being coerced. God forbid characters have agency to make decisions you disagree with.

 

It is pretzel bending at it's best. Twisting each character to suit this demented victim urge they have.

[Catwall]

Ooh Bull manipulates Dorian into a relationship? (Mentally rapes him?)

 

Do tell how. I'd love to hear it. Just to see all the pretzel bending.

This must be from that "Iron Bull is Actually a Blood Mage" DLC I've been hearing so much about.

[Ryzaki]

This must be from that "Iron Bull is Actually a Blood Mage" DLC I've been hearing so much about.

 

OMG.

 

THAT'S WHERE THE ELF ARM GLITCH COMES FROM?!?

 

BULL!!!!

 

*shakes fist at the sky*

[Hellion Rex]

It's not true. It's some one desperate to make Dorian into a victim and Bull an abuser because how dare they make bad decisions without being coerced. God forbid characters have agency to make decisions you disagree with.

 

It is pretzel bending at it's best. Twisting each character to suit this demented victim urge they have.

I know it's not true, but for someone to actually think that or even to say that is just kinda depressing.

[Ryzaki]

I know it's not true, but for someone to actually think that or even to say that is just kinda depressing.

 

Eh people are ridiculous. I'm more bothered by them spreading it around like herpes and whining to the devs about it claiming they support abuse and whatever rot they were saying.

[Armali]

Ooh Bull manipulates Dorian into a relationship? (Mentally rapes him?)

 

Do tell how. I'd love to hear it. Just to see all the pretzel bending.

 

 

What the living hell.......O__________O

 

That someone thinks that about Bull literally makes me sick. I...I don't know what to say to that. "Mentally rapes".....

 

That someone thinks that about Bull just really kinda hurts, cause I don't think that's even remotely true. Their relationship might be unhealthy, but no one here has any sufficient proof to claim "mental rape". Hell, the romance banter b/t Bull and Dor maybe only even had 3 or 4 actual dialogues.

 

Here. There are links to other parts added to it as well.

[Sui Causa]

That dead horse has been beat so many times. It's someone with negitive personal experiences inflicting their bias against game characters who were in no way intended to be represented that way. We have in game evidence that completely negates everything that's in that article. We have confirmation from the damn writers that while their relationship might be unhealthy, which is understandable, it is in no way abusive.

 

You can twist anything into being evil. That does not mean that's what it is. That just means that's how it was twisted.

 

It's unfortunate that people are so quick to inflict that kind of stigma on a character that doesn't deserve it at all.

 

But that is all, completely all it is.

 

There are lovely articles showing alternate points of view of it. But if you are willing to believe that a service dom with as good of a nature as Iron Bull is "mentally raping" Dorian into being in a relationship with him, it's just not worth the effort to try and open your eyes to anything different. Someone's very bias opinion is not fact. Period.

[Armali]

That dead horse has been beat so many times. It's someone with negitive personal experiences inflicting their bias against game characters who were in no way intended to be represented that way. We have in game evidence that completely negates everything that's in that article. We have confirmation from the damn writers that while their relationship might be unhealthy, which is understandable, it is in no way abusive.

 

You can twist anything into being evil. That does not mean that's what it is. That just means that's how it was twisted.

 

It's unfortunate that people are so quick to inflict that kind of stigma on a character that doesn't deserve it at all.

 

But that is all, completely all it is.

 

There are lovely articles showing alternate points of view of it. But if you are willing to believe that a service dom with as good of a nature as Iron Bull is "mentally raping" Dorian into being in a relationship with him, it's just not worth the effort to try and open your eyes to anything different. Someone's very bias opinion is not fact. Period.

 

And you aren't biased?

 

If you hadn't read what I linked to, it explains (in detail) unwanted sexual harassment IB does to Dorian. He even explains a rape fantasy to him.

 

Also, if you payed attention to IB's conversations, you'd know that he's part of the Ben Hassrath and they directly manipulate how people think. They are called the 'Re-edcuators'. There are people in real life who can do that to you as well. 

[Sui Causa]

And you aren't biased?

 

If you hadn't read what I linked to, it explains (in detail) unwanted sexual harassment IB does to Dorian. He even explains a rape fantasy to him.

 

Also, if you payed attention to IB's conversations, you'd know that he's part of the Ben Hassrath and they directly manipulate how people think. They are called the 'Re-edcuators'. There are people in real life who can do that to you as well. 

Bull is not a re-educator. He is very open and straight forward, from how he joins the Inquisition to how he lays out what he's going to do with Inquisitor, to how he points out the similarities between himself and Dorian. Iron Bull says things like "My door is always open." He does not say "I will be coming to see you tonight, better prepare yourself." He pushes Dorian's buttons as hard as Dorian pushes his.

 

Iron Bull is a service dom. He gets off entirely on providing for his partners. Whether it's the servant girls he has sex with, the Inquisitor, and using simple evidence from the game, the fact that Dorian wants to stay with him, the fact that no one Iron Bull has been in bed with, from the nobility who has hired him, the chantry sisters, the kitchen staff, etc, has ever been anything but thrilled with his performance and eager for more, you can assume that he is doing the same damn thing he always does with Dorian, behind closed doors.

 

If he gets off on giving people what they want, if that's the kind of dom he is, then it's so ****** easy to see that if Dorian didn't actually want their relationship, Iron Bull would get nothing from it. He is the opposite of a rapist.

 

I have read the article. I don't need someones personal experiences and references to real life abuse to create an image of Iron Bull. I use what is available in game, and general experience with the BDSM lifestyle and dominants like Iron Bull to know exactly what kind of person the writers wanted, and SAID that they were trying to portray. (In case you have problems understanding the words of the writer of their relationship, David Gaider very clearly says in those italic little words, that There is NO ABUSE in their relationship. That the "unhealthiness" comes from Dorian being UNCOMFORTABLE WITH HIS LIFE CHOICES.) Period. There's no arguing, with what the writer says. The second you do you're going into personal opinion being inflicted on something, not the way things are.

 

Sorry, like I said. You can twist anything to be evil. That doesn't mean that's what it is.

 

Yes I am biased. I am biased to believe the game's content before I will believe someone's personal conspiracy theories. Iron Bull is a beautiful character that portrays a very important part of a lifestyle that is demonized at every turn by people who don't even try to begin to understand it. But their ignorance is not an excuse to try and make people feel bad for supporting it, or ever discouraging the developers from including it in their video games because it goes against what they are personally comfortable with.

[TheTurtle]

This kinda stuff reminds me of the old "Ashley is a Zealot" threads, full of reaching and absolute disregard for the character as a whole. 

[Catwall]

These anti Iron Bull arguments are all reach, no flexibility.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm glad I get to avoid all this by keeping The Iron Bull as far away from the Inquisition as I can.