45 réponses à ce sujet

[KefRayBa]

From the party banter, Vivienne accuse Cole of being the catalyst of the Mage Rebellion by his actions in the White Spire. 

 

After Cole personal quest, we learned that the real Cole died because of the Templar's neglience, in addition to the beatings and implied sexual abuse (from Cole party banter with Cassandra.)

 

I was rather disappointed that there was no followup on Vivienne's reaction to this revelations.  Would she be kinder to him?  Would she even care?  One thing that I dislike about Vivienne is that she seems, to me at least, to lack compassion toward less fortunate people. 

[Eveangaline]

There is a banter where Cole is surprised that Viv was actually worried about his safety, but that's about it. As for Viv lacking compassion...all those Viv approves when saving people at haven (and her reaction when you take her to the hanging during a certain someones personal quest, as well as her reaction when you walk into places of carnage) make me think otherwise.

[Wolfen09]

Honestly, outside her specialization, i thought that she was kind of boring... i mean there's really not that much to talk about with her compared to all the other characters...  back on topic, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she wouldn't apologize, she's a very prideful person, and i dont see her changing her line of thinking.... plus her damn argument is so skewed....  he didnt start it, he helped sort of... but it was technically adrian and lambert who started it, and fiona sort of by electing, by majority vote i might add (she's not a mary sue if more than 50% voted yes, if she was a mary sue, then every politician in history is a mary sue, even lincoln, he's the ultimate mary sue for contributing to the start of america's civil war).  Sorry, just getting some anger out....

[LadyofClockwork7]

From the party banter, Vivienne accuse Cole of being the catalyst of the Mage Rebellion by his actions in the White Spire. 

 

After Cole personal quest, we learned that the real Cole died because of the Templar's neglience, in addition to the beatings and implied sexual abuse (from Cole party banter with Cassandra.)

 

I was rather disappointed that there was no followup on Vivienne's reaction to this revelations.  Would she be kinder to him?  Would she even care?  One thing that I dislike about Vivienne is that she seems, to me at least, to lack compassion toward less fortunate people. 

 

I'm so happy I never spare the templar in Cole's personal quest, coz if I heard *that* particular banter between Cass and Cole I would've turned into Janders. 

[Daerog]

Cole is not the original Cole. What happened to the original Cole did not happen to Inquisition Cole.

 

She is not blind and deaf to the abuses of the Templars, she does mock the Templars when you do the Champions of the Just.

 

Cole is very invasive and Vivienne is a very guarded person, she is not going to like him. However, maybe if one makes Cole more human he will learn to not be so invasive and is unlikely to turn into a demon to cause trouble, then Vivienne could warm up to him... and then try to tell him how to dress appropriately, the dance that is currently in fashion, proper posture, to not climb or sneak around at a noble's party, etc...

[KefRayBa]

My point of argument was that the spirit Cole wouldn't have appeared had the templar did their duty correctly and didn't killed the mage Cole. 

 

I think that to hear the real person behind her mask was a way to let the players see the real Vivienne besides to master of the great game she present herself to be.

[Akkos]

There is a banter where Cole is surprised that Viv was actually worried about his safety, but that's about it. As for Viv lacking compassion...all those Viv approves when saving people at haven (and her reaction when you take her to the hanging during a certain someones personal quest, as well as her reaction when you walk into places of carnage) make me think otherwise.

 

Have you noticed Vivienne is all about the result. She is telling you "saving those people will slow you down, Hurry".  But she is "surpised" or content when you did saved all of them.

[Jaison1986]

I'm so happy I never spare the templar in Cole's personal quest, coz if I heard *that* particular banter between Cass and Cole I would've turned into Janders. 

 

I heard about that. How do you get that option at all?

[Ryriena]

I would have gone Janders on the Templar if I had heard about what that Templar did to Cole. That poor baby

[LadyofClockwork7]

I heard about that. How do you get that option at all?

 

Sparing the templar? During Cole's personal quest, when he spots the templar in Redcliffe, you can side with either Varric or Solas on how to handle the situation. Naturally, siding with Solas will encourage Cole to forgive the templar and let him live, making him more in-tune with his spirit nature, whereas siding with Varric and letting him help Cole kill the templar will make Cole feel more human.

[Jaison1986]

Cole is dead. Stop treating a spirit like a person. I sympathize for the real Cole, but it's not like he's the only victim of Templar abuse and situation is more complicated than so and so is responsible. 'Killing' guilty ex-templar guy won't bring the real Cole back. Allowing spirit Cole to do what he was meant to do is the way to go. Not because he can't or shouldn't change or grow, but because he doesn't want to. He wants to help people and the more spirit-like he becomes the better he is at it. The conversation during 'The Forgotten Boy' is what sealed the deal for me.

 

But Cole is not just an spirit anymore. It's like Varric said, he changed himself once he came to our world. The final talk with him is just the worst. He makes himself forget the real Cole, the reason he came to our world, that he is what he is. Not to mention spirit Cole just feels... deatached from everything and everyone. It feels like he doesn't belong to our world anymore.

[LadyofClockwork7]

But Cole is not just an spirit anymore. It's like Varric said, he changed himself once he came to our world. The final talk with him is just the worst. He makes himself forget the real Cole, the reason he came to our world, that he is what he is. Not to mention spirit Cole just feels... deatached from everything and everyone. It feels like he doesn't belong to our world anymore.

 

Oh trust me, I'm with you. I'm a firm supporter of human Cole, and offing that templar a-hole.

[MisterJB]

I'm so happy I never spare the templar in Cole's personal quest, coz if I heard *that* particular banter between Cass and Cole I would've turned into Janders. 

 

The Op has interpreted it erroneously.

Cole spent years in the White Spire. Evidently, he saw abuses perpetrated by some Templars. Unfortunately, these exist.

However, he is speaking of abuses others mages suffered, not those Cole suffered. The evidence of this is that, for instance, Cole speaks of an occasion where a Templar sexually abused a Tranquil. However, the real Cole was never Tranquil.

He was forgotten and he starved to death but nothing else. Neglect, not abuse.
 

Besides, I do not believe you can kill the Templar in Cole's personal quest.

[Above Good and Evil]

Cole doesn't actually kill him. Varric unloads Bianca so she jams, so the act of catharsis itself was pulling the trigger. Cole thought that killing him would make the pain go away and Varric knows from experience with Bartrand that it doesn't work that way. Cole understanding that pain doesn't go away just because you tried to hurt the one who harmed you is the catalyst for his growth - A pure spirit would assume its that simple, but a human knows that revenge isn't some quick and easy relief.

[Kuvira]

Sparing the templar? During Cole's personal quest, when he spots the templar in Redcliffe, you can side with either Varric or Solas on how to handle the situation. Naturally, siding with Solas will encourage Cole to forgive the templar and let him live, making him more in-tune with his spirit nature, whereas siding with Varric and letting him help Cole kill the templar will make Cole feel more human.

 

Cole never kills anyone in his personal quest. Varric just fakes letting him shoot him with a crossbow to help Cole realize that won't make him feel any better. 

 

Vivienne is an emotional Fort Knox, she's never going to really like a being that  can pry into her mind without her knowledge or consent. That, and she apparently had an especially nasty Harrowing, so she's probably very suspicious of all spirits/demons. One of Cole's banters with Vivienne is him saying he will kill the Templars if they come to hurt her again, so it's not like she doesn't know or care about Templar's abuses. She's just never going to bond with someone like Cole over it. 

 

The fact she never attempts to destroy him/forcibly bind him to keep him under control is the best sign of her respect for him/the Inquisitor. 

 

I've been done ever since I read the Hunter's journal in The Hinterlands, where

 

Spoiler

A Templar cuts down a bunch of refugees after they get immolated by some mages. Except when he comes to one that appears to be a woman, and promptly starts to rape her until the Hunter kills him. And then he holds her hand while she, you know, dies of freaking 3rd degree burns.No free Templars in any of my runs, uh uh. That is party of why I like Vivienne as Divine, because she brings the iron hammer down on them to keep them under control. 

[Nette]

Oh trust me, I'm with you. I'm a firm supporter of human Cole, and offing that templar a-hole.

Wait, what? Cole can kill that templar? In my playthroughs Varric always riggs Bianca not to fire.

[Jaison1986]

Excuse me if I don't take a Kirkwall Dwarf on his word (over that of Fen'Harel's no less) over matters that deal with magic...

 

He might know little about magic, but he knows a lot about people. It is quite ironic, because Solas is all about "spirits are people too", and yet when one of them genuinely starts to become like people, he shuns the idea.

[Kuvira]

Spirits are people too, but in their own way. Cole was living some weird half existence. He'll never become fully human, but he lost himself through the trauma of the real Cole's death.

 

Cole says it himself. He learned to be 'more like he was' after being separated from Rhys and Evangeline. And he was glad because he could better do what he was meant to do.

 

And if you turn him more human, he laughs at his spirit self's naivete, and says his whole mode of operation (help, wipe existence, start again) was out of fear of rejection, not because that was his calling. Varric certainly can't compete with Solas in terms of spirit knowledge, but I trust Cole's own self-analysis over both of them. His more-human outcome shows a lot more personal growth that Spirit Cole, who has to mindwipe himself because he can't deal with carrying Cole's emotional baggage. 

 

Imo, Spirit Cole is a more effective tool, but Human Cole is 'happier' with himself. 

[AshesEleven]

But Cole is not just an spirit anymore. It's like Varric said, he changed himself once he came to our world. The final talk with him is just the worst. He makes himself forget the real Cole, the reason he came to our world, that he is what he is. Not to mention spirit Cole just feels... deatached from everything and everyone. It feels like he doesn't belong to our world anymore.

The Spirit doesn't belong to our world, it's not a terrible thing, letting him be what he is. At the party after the fight with Corypheus, he laughs playfully about how he can slip back to the Fade whenever he wants, but he wants to stay and help a bit more. I can't imagine why that's bad for him. He seems like more of himself, at peace. It's a wonderful ending for Cole.

[M-Taylor]

Honestly, outside her specialization, i thought that she was kind of boring... i mean there's really not that much to talk about with her compared to all the other characters...  back on topic, it doesn't surprise me one bit that she wouldn't apologize, she's a very prideful person, and i dont see her changing her line of thinking.... plus her damn argument is so skewed....  he didnt start it, he helped sort of... but it was technically adrian and lambert who started it, and fiona sort of by electing, by majority vote i might add (she's not a mary sue if more than 50% voted yes, if she was a mary sue, then every politician in history is a mary sue, even lincoln, he's the ultimate mary sue for contributing to the start of america's civil war).  Sorry, just getting some anger out....

 

Fiona isn't a mary sue because she led the mages. She's a mary sue because she's a conscripted elf slave with no considerable talent, had relations with a king, produced off spring with said king, was cured of the taint (only person in history) with no explanation and was then readmitted with a position of authority into the Circle.

 

She's a Mary Sue because everything screams about her as 'omg unique unique', and her few flaws are either ignored or brushed under the carpet.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Cole's writer outright said there is no best option for Cole, it's entirely your opinion. Spirit Cole makes Cole happier but is less relatable while human Cole is less happy but more relatable. Which is better is up to you.

[Deanna]

What are yall talking about? Cole doesn't kill the templar if you side with Varric. He hands Cole his crossbow but Cole can't bring himself to do it. I don't know about Varric rigging it to not shoot, never saw that happen and plus Cole screams out in frustration with his finger on the trigger and then stops. Varric then says "its not easy is it kid" or something like that. The templar never dies either way....I've done both, I know.