45 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

And if you turn him more human, he laughs at his spirit self's naivete, and says his whole mode of operation (help, wipe existence, start again) was out of fear of rejection, not because that was his calling. Varric certainly can't compete with Solas in terms of spirit knowledge, but I trust Cole's own self-analysis over both of them. His more-human outcome shows a lot more personal growth that Spirit Cole, who has to mindwipe himself because he can't deal with carrying Cole's emotional baggage. 
 
Imo, Spirit Cole is a more effective tool, but Human Cole is 'happier' with himself.

Human pandering.

[Br3admax]

Cole tries to kill the Templar, but Bianca jams. And Cole implies later that Varric had nothing to do with that, Bianca just jammed on her/its own, it just happened on it's own. Of course you could take that for a movie reference as well, but whatever. 

[KefRayBa]

For me I see Cole's personal quest as

 

The Op has interpreted it erroneously.

Cole spent years in the White Spire. Evidently, he saw abuses perpetrated by some Templars. Unfortunately, these exist.

However, he is speaking of abuses others mages suffered, not those Cole suffered. The evidence of this is that, for instance, Cole speaks of an occasion where a Templar sexually abused a Tranquil. However, the real Cole was never Tranquil.

He was forgotten and he starved to death but nothing else. Neglect, not abuse.
 

Besides, I do not believe you can kill the Templar in Cole's personal quest.

 

Oh... I see, I might have to listen to that audio again.  Thanks for the correction.

 

I see Cole's personal quest as you lead him to help a lot of people in little shallow ways or help less people but in deepen more thoughtful way.  Since in more humanized Cole scenario, he said the he understand consequences and how things are connected the way he didn't see before.  That's the insight he wouldn't have gain had he been spritiualized.

[Deanna]

Is this on YouTube? So many ppl are sure the crossbow jams but I did not catch that, I just thought Cole couldn't do it....im confused now aahhhh

[KefRayBa]

There was a banter between Cole and Blackwall that said that Cole did kill the templar.  Perhaps it was a cut scenario?

[Br3admax]

Never heard this. Hard to imagine Bianca jamming. But it's possible I suppose. I always thought Varric left the 'safety' on.

Was just randomly talking to Cole. The problem with that is most of the things he says are references. 

[KefRayBa]

Is this on YouTube? So many ppl are sure the crossbow jams but I did not catch that, I just thought Cole couldn't do it....im confused now aahhhh

 

I didn't catch/see the crossbow jam too.  Good thing I haven't played that scenario yet in my current playthrough so I will look out for that.

[Jaison1986]

Someone needs to ask Weekes on twitter if Bianca jammed or if Varric left the safety on.

 

I aways thought he took the shot but missed on pourpose because he couldn't do it in the end. 

[SgtSteel91]

Just putting it out there but there is no "right" choice whether to have Cole grow as a person or reaffirm is nature as a spirit. That's the beauty of the scenario. The same beats are hit: Cole feels better than he did before, he won't be in danger of being bound, and he will continue to help people, but the paths are different and which path is chosen is determined by your own beliefs.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Well you see, dear, Vivienne does not like to show her emotions, darling.

[Korva]

I prefer the spirit path, but I definitely love the fact that there is no "right choice". IMO, Cole would have suffered as a character if Weekes had stuck to his original plan of making humanity the "win condition", because having both options shows more of him. Making him recognizably the same person but also noticably different in all three of his "incarnations" (pre-quest, more-spirit, more-human) is some great writing.

 

Regarding the more-human solution: If I'm not completely mistaken, Cole does pull the trigger -- you can hear it before he cries out and collapses. He also has a line where he says (apprently if you don't ask him about the companions until after this quest ... y'know, the very early-unlocked dialog option where he speaks about Solas and Varric) that Varric tricked him. After all, Varric too didn't want him to kill that guy. So my interpretation is that Varric rigged Bianca before handing "her" over, and Cole actually shot to kill before realizing how wrong it was.

[Kinsz]

Varric never planned to have Cole kill that guy and he said as much when Solas brought it up so yes he knew that Bianca wasnt going to fire.

[InfinitePaths]

 

One thing that I dislike about Vivienne is that she seems, to me at least, to lack compassion toward less fortunate people. 

 

You don't understand.Vivienne was born as a poor commoner.She was less forunate too.She sees all "less fortunate people" as people who weren't skilled enough and failed to grab power when they could.

 

She rose above her circumstances and she thinks everyone has the opportunity to do so but only those who are capable enough to deserve a good life live it.

[Korva]

If that is what she's thinking, she's seriously deluded. What set her apart first and foremost was an accident of birth: her having rare magical talent. That is the reason why she had a cushy life during which she was sheltered, clothed, fed, educated and protected without any effort or payment on her part. Sure, it's a golden cage, and for some mages it's not cushy at all but a string of atrocities. But that doesn't change the fact that most mages, and certainly Vivienne, are much better off than your average small merchant or crafter, nevermind farmer or kitchen servant, could ever dream of being.

[InfinitePaths]

If that is what she's thinking, she's seriously deluded. What set her apart first and foremost was an accident of birth: her having rare magical talent. That is the reason why she had a cushy life during which she was sheltered, clothed, fed, educated and protected without any effort or payment on her part. Sure, it's a golden cage, and for some mages it's not cushy at all but a string of atrocities. But that doesn't change the fact that most mages, and certainly Vivienne, are much better off than your average small merchant or crafter, nevermind farmer or kitchen servant, could ever dream of being.

 

Indeed, absolutely agree.All people's way of thinking are ridiculously flawed and biased.Especially hers, that's why she's so commonly disliked.

[Qunquistador]

Is this on YouTube? So many ppl are sure the crossbow jams but I did not catch that, I just thought Cole couldn't do it....im confused now aahhhh

People are mistaken. Cole fires the crossbow, but he misses the templar on purpose. He can't bring himself to kill him.

 

For the sake of drama it's cut to make you think he does at first when he really just shoots near the guy and not at him. And Varric knows full well that Cole won't actually kill the guy. He's really on the same page with Solas about Cole not getting the revenge he thinks he wants. Difference is Varric lets Cole work out his very human emotions by calling his bluff.

[ZerioctheTank]

I can understand that being around someone that can read your inner, most painful thoughts is unsettling but she doesn't have to treat him the way she does. Honestly I would have no problem with her if she actually was kind to him. In regards to his personal quest I went the human route as I wanted him to actually learn from his mistakes not hide from them.

[Boost32]

I can understand that being around someone that can read your inner, most painful thoughts is unsettling but she doesn't have to treat him the way she does. Honestly I would have no problem with her if she actually was kind to him. In regards to his personal quest I went the human route as I wanted him to actually learn from his mistakes not hide from them.

But she really cares and is worried that someone can control him, she is relieved to know he can no longer be controlled, but of course she would never admit.

[KefRayBa]

You don't understand.Vivienne was born as a poor commoner.She was less forunate too.She sees all "less fortunate people" as people who weren't skilled enough and failed to grab power when they could.

 

She rose above her circumstances and she thinks everyone has the opportunity to do so but only those who are capable enough to deserve a good life live it.

 

I do understand that but while she acknowledge that each circle life was different from one another she admit that her was a tamer experience than say the Kirkwall circle.

 

I do get it that Vivienne fought for everything she had from her title, her position, her political powers.  She totally earn them with her capabilities that while being a mage was her way in, it was who she was at the core that let her thrive where she was.

 

My train of thought was the real Cole, as a mage, was essentially under her care too?  Cole died in the White Spire circle and I am not sure where Vivienne was a first enchanter.  That she seems to lack symphathy and outrage that a fellow mage died of abuse and neglect from the supposed guardian seems wrong.

 

I also get it that in this current scenario, the mage were brats and the templar were thugs.  That mages seems to lack the understanding of how dangerous they can be if they let their guards down.  That templars often abuse their charges since they were train to keep distance from the mages, with good reason, but that also lead to dehumanizing and other problems.