78 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

And instead of dropping it completely, they should've improved upon it.

[goishen]

I for one, disagree. ME1 even feels largely different even if it was, too, just large maps with generic objectives like scanning debris and mineral surveys (and that generic side quest station with "enemies everywhere!" inside)

I'm replaying ME1 again right now, and one thing I realized that I love, adore and crave for ME4 to have is actually these rather barren and empty over worlds.

I'm not kidding! I LOVE driving around those planets. It feels immersive. Why? Because it's how I imagine real uninhabited planets to feel like; not littered with objectives as infinitum on the radar and not full of enemies and NPCs.

I hope ME4 has some areas like Inquisition but that it mainly keeps its main quest parts somewhat constrained, without making a main quest - side quest segregation of 30/70 like Inquisiton (30% main mission and squad talks, 70% optional and depthless fetch questing)

But mostly I hope at least a dozen very basic and plain, barren planet's remain. Just for immersion and creating a believable space exploration aspect.

 

 

Well, I started about this and you're right.   However, one thing that will immediately take me out the level of immersion....     Loading screens.  Start loading up an area, go down, pour a cup of coffee, chat a bit.  Come back up, and it's still loading. 

 

I would say that ME2 was better, but not by much.  I'm replaying that now, and that has some pretty hefty loading screens.  At least it has something to look at and consider while we wait.

[FaWa]

If driving around a barren sphere is interesting to you, I guess everyone has their thing. But I think we saw with DAI Bioware has no idea how to do puesdo open world. Fetch Quests are evil. 

[Linkenski]

If driving around a barren sphere is interesting to you, I guess everyone has their thing. But I think we saw with DAI Bioware has no idea how to do puesdo open world. Fetch Quests are evil.

It's not as much obliviousness as much as its about the economics of game development. Bioware wanted us to consume a product for 100~ hours per playthrough, but they did not see it was realistic to have enough cinematic and voice acting rich side quests.

If that's not the issue, then you are right. They are clueless, or they think Single Player MMO is somehow more appealing to mainstream gamers.

[SNascimento]

If driving around a barren sphere is interesting to you, I guess everyone has their thing. But I think we saw with DAI Bioware has no idea how to do puesdo open world. Fetch Quests are evil. 

They do. There was a lot of good things about DAI open world nature. 

[Mcfly616]

Was there wildlife in DAI?

[goishen]

Yes, there was wildlife.  Bears chomped on my ass enough to tell you that.

 

Here's something I dislike when talking about DAI.  When it comes to DAI, you're really talking about two games.  The first half and the second half.  The first half is where you get haven blown up and discover skyhold and a little past that.  The second half is where the story really starts kicking in. 

 

The second half I don't mind playing through.  The first half, you can take that part and shove it.

 

EDIT :  Back on topic --  *sigh*  I mean, if we are just aimlessly wandering around planets for a good fifty hours of the game...   I'll be sitting there wondering when the main story is gonna begin at like hour two.  Prolly quit the game at like hour twenty.   Simply because that's exactly what DAI did.  They spread the main missions too far out in the beginning of the game.

[Mcfly616]

Well, good to hear they actually added life to the game world. I'll be extremely disappointed if I don't encounter some weird alien creatures in the alien environments we'll be exploring in the next Mass Effect.

[Vortex13]

Well, good to hear they actually added life to the game world. I'll be extremely disappointed if I don't encounter some weird alien creatures in the alien environments we'll be exploring in the next Mass Effect.

 

 

I am not against anything like that either, but I do hope that not every planet we visit is just swarming with little mobs for us to kill. I don't want to travel to planet A, B, or C and see that they all have a bustling ecosystem full of 'space wolves' or 'space bears' especially since garden worlds are rather rare in the setting, and secondly, because I don't want to see the annoying 'fetch [insert NPC here] some space bear pelts' quests filling up my journal and have BioWare calling that exploration.

 

 

 

It was really annoying in DA:I when I was moving around in a barren desert and the game seemed to be artificially injecting monsters into a place that should be quite devoid of life simply to give me a fetch quest or to hinder my progress in completing a fetch quest.

[Mcfly616]

I am not against anything like that either, but I do hope that not every planet we visit is just swarming with little mobs for us to kill. I don't want to travel to planet A, B, or C and see that they all have a bustling ecosystem full of 'space wolves' or 'space bears' especially since garden worlds are rather rare in the setting, and secondly, because I don't want to see the annoying 'fetch [insert NPC here] some space bear pelts' quests filling up my journal and have BioWare calling that exploration.

 

 

 

It was really annoying in DA:I when I was moving around in a barren desert and the game seemed to be artificially injecting monsters into a place that should be quite devoid of life simply to give me a fetch quest or to hinder my progress in completing a fetch quest.

 I can only speak for Mass Effect since I have never been able to get into the DA series.

 

 

I agree that every world should not be littered with organisms or even be legitimately habitable. I enjoy the feeling of being in a desolate wasteland in the far corner of the galaxy. However, it'd be nice if there were some planets with ecosystems. Wouldn't mind a desert planet complete with a space port and cantina. Wouldn't mind seeing research outposts or pirate hideouts in the ass end of nowhere once again either. Just as every world shouldn't be a habitable garden world, not every planet should be a barren wasteland. I'm all for variety.

[SimonTheFrog]

I really would enjoy some harsh environments. You know: blizzards, thunderstorms, ash-rains, lava, space.... spaaaaaaace....

They should also make us be able to walk on 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko complete with low gravity and all... the awesomeness....

 

But yeah, in real life, a lot... and i mean A LOT of the planets are completely un-suitable for gamification. But damn would it be awesome to walk on them anyway. I don't care if there's not a lot to do as long as i get the feeling of being the first human to set foot on some far, far away world.

[goishen]

And gas giants or something similar.  Like we had in ME2 and that one planet we landed on with the geth.  You couldn't see more ten feet in front of you.

[AgentMrOrange]

DAI had some large and beautiful locations to explore however it lacks any kind of reward for exploring.

Fallout 3 gave you plenty of reason to explore unique weapons like vengeance or reservist rifle, armors like the prototype talking power armor, small communities like oasis or even small stories tied to a location. that type of thing makes me want to explore and area more than anything DAI did, because It creates a sense of discovery and reward and it makes the game world feel more alive more immersive the explorable areas in DAI felt static the few times I felt the game world come to life was when dragons were involved in fact I think the dragon slaying was the best part of DAI if they had you exploring these areas looking for dragons to kill I probably liked the games more.

[RIPRemusTheTurian]

I don't care if there's not a lot to do as long as i get the feeling of being the first human turian to set foot on some far, far away world.

Fixed

 

I really hope that we explore uncharted landscapes, with all the extraterrestrial animals that entails, but for an equal amount of the game I'd like to fight against enemies capable of wielding guns, and not just the local wildlife.

 

I'm assuming that this'll be solved by the two new intelligent races that Bioware may add, but just a thought. I personally prefer baddies that can shoot back.

 

Also, do you guys think that worlds with multiple biomes is reasonable?

[Mcfly616]

I hope the enemies we face won't be exclusive to the new species. Take us back to the old days when villains could be of any species. 

[RIPRemusTheTurian]

I agree, definitely. The races we've encountered so far should be integrated together, especially after the reaper war. And especially after synthesis, I guess.

 

What I was talking about was that I hope - on the planets that haven't even been discovered by council races - the enemies our PC faces won't predominately be animals.

[SimonTheFrog]

Fixed

 

I really hope that we explore uncharted landscapes, with all the extraterrestrial animals that entails, but for an equal amount of the game I'd like to fight against enemies capable of wielding guns, and not just the local wildlife.

 

I'm assuming that this'll be solved by the two new intelligent races that Bioware may add, but just a thought. I personally prefer baddies that can shoot back.

 

Also, do you guys think that worlds with multiple biomes is reasonable?

 

I don't care what species the hero is as long there is something other than ultra masculin space marine.

 

Yes, ME wouldn't be ME without some organized crime, political tensions and betrayals etc. I wouldn't worry about having to shoot people in face. And I would prefer that too to killing off local wildlife. I'm always feeling a bit sad when killing the stuff in DA:I. Other than the wolves... i hate the wolves. Especially the ones that hunt Halla's... may they rot in hell.

[SimonTheFrog]

I agree, definitely. The races we've encountered so far should be integrated together, especially after the reaper war. And especially after synthesis, I guess.

 

What I was talking about was that I hope - on the planets that haven't even been discovered by council races - the enemies our PC faces won't predominately be animals.

 

Arggghhhh you mentioned the WORD.... you mustn't mention the WORD!!

 

We are NOT playing ME:N in a post-ending universe. And especially not THAT option...

[Maniccc]

Exploration needs to be integrated into the story, as opposed to DA:I's fetch quests and resource gathering nonsense.  For instance, there is a pseudo exploration in ME3 on Tuchanka, when Shep is on foot and Wrex is in the tank, and you find these old ruins. Now, that's not exactly exploration, but exploration needs to be something like that, so that it ties into the story, and is not tacked on stuff to do as game padding.

 

I suspect we will get more of the latter, and less of the former.

[KrrKs]

Exploration needs to be integrated into the story

No it doesn't; at least not in a significant manner.

There should however be some incentive to go and explore (apart from beautiful vistas -even if that is only the occasional "Palladium!"/Money -deposit)

 

Integrating it into the story means, you have to go and spend hours wandering around, looking for something -even if you don't really want to.

I hope that this is possible and fun, but not forced.

[Bacus]

Well, they should have some sort of story. Take ME1 when you found the nuke/satellite. or when you found the thorian creepers in another planet, not to mention your PTD soldier friend (if you where a war hero) trying to kill the scientist that tricked your unit into the tresher maw thing.

[Cheviot]

 Reading between the lines on some posts here, I think the problem isn't that there are so many things to do, it's that there are so many things that are on the map at any one time.  It can sometime urge people to try and "clear" the map.  I think people who aren't fans of DA;I-style exploration might be more attracted to it if the map displayed only the points of interest connected to the current quest, or if it was based on proximity, or some other sort of filter.

 

 

DAI had some large and beautiful locations to explore however it lacks any kind of reward for exploring.

Fallout 3 gave you plenty of reason to explore unique weapons like vengeance or reservist rifle, armors like the prototype talking power armor, small communities like oasis or even small stories tied to a location. that type of thing makes me want to explore and area more than anything DAI did, because It creates a sense of discovery and reward and it makes the game world feel more alive more immersive the explorable areas in DAI felt static the few times I felt the game world come to life was when dragons were involved in fact I think the dragon slaying was the best part of DAI if they had you exploring these areas looking for dragons to kill I probably liked the games more.

But all that stuff is in DA:I.  If you don't explore the Hinterlands, you don't find that cult that lives in the castle with the Rift, you don't find the scout who snuck away with her apostate girlfriend for a picnic, you don't chance upon Red Templars fighting a bear, you don't suddenly find a castle that needs clearing out, and you're never told where the dragon is until you chance upon it.  And the Wedge of Destiny.  How else are you going to get a unique weapon like that without exploring?

[goishen]

You wanna know what?   In my entire experience of playing DAI, I only encountered one dragon that was like three levels above me.  I tried fighting it, but could see I wasn't getting anywhere on any of my attempts.  I've played for ~70 ish hours or so.  Well, two if you count the dragon - giant fight, which I steered clear of.  And three if you include the main quest.

 

But other than that, nothing.

[MrFob]

No it doesn't; at least not in a significant manner.

There should however be some incentive to go and explore (apart from beautiful vistas -even if that is only the occasional "Palladium!"/Money -deposit)

 

Integrating it into the story means, you have to go and spend hours wandering around, looking for something -even if you don't really want to.

I hope that this is possible and fun, but not forced.

 

I would interpret that differently.

Now, that I finally finished DA:I I was disappointed to discover that the game is bascally split into two parts:

1. Story missions, these are all specific areas only accessible through and for the main story. THere is usually hardly any exploration there, you just follow the path and get a lot of cutscenes and dialogue (only exception is the winter palace where you can explore a little).

2. Exploration Areas: These large areas basically have nothing to do with the main story. I think the only three instances where you have to go is to get Mother Giselle from the Hinterlands, the Grey Warden from Crestwood and the other Grey Wardens from the Western Approach. All the other ares, you basically don't even have to visit at all.

 

This makes the game feel very divided and it doesn't make Thedas feel like one huge world but rather like a theme park with different kinds of attractions. It also gives the player too much information about the kind of area they are in from the start. If I go to the exaltet plains, I know exactly that all I will find there are a couple of ultimately pointless side quests with ambient conversations and a couple of shards. Why isn't this area integrated into what's actually going on? Same goes for all the big exploration areas in DA:I.

 

I know this gets old but again, I want to refer people to the old Games Gothic 1 and 2. There, you have an area and you explore it not for explorations sake but also to find stuff for the story. They tell you that there is a camp of cultists with some important NPCs to the west somewhere, so you go there. Of course, there is still a lot of places you don't need to go for the story but they do send you to some cornerstones of the map(s) throughout the story. This didn't happen at all in DA:I.

 

Mass Effect is a bit of a different animal in the sense that we have the planetary division, which makes the world more modular by default (which why we want mod support for crying out loud) but still, I do hope that BW moves on to integrate story areas and exploration areas a bit more. Just, send us into a lot of different maps, of different sizes and play-style, some huge and wide, some small and dense and everything in between and distribute the story in these places rather than making two seperate games and burn them on the same blue ray.

 

IMO, that's hat integration of story and exploration means and I am all for it.

[Iakus]

DAI does have a lot of "optional" exploration content.  But I think the weakness is that this content tends to be rather week.  There are good stories to be found, like Crestwood's undead problem.  Or rescuing the soldiers in Fallow Mire.  Frankly I think it could have done with more of these large, involved stories that were more in-depth that "go to X and kill stuff" (looking at you, Exalted Plains)

 

It doesn't have to tie into the main story, it just has to be interesting in and of itself.